TAC 2017-2018 dEhiN

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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby dEhiN » 2017-01-20, 9:49

As many of you know, I use Anki. And like someone else on UL who uses Anki mentioned, Anki helps me consolidate the vocabulary I've learned and even to add grammar points. Not that regular practice won't do the same; but my hope with Anki is that I can keep fairly current my passive vocabulary, and then with eventual active practice, be able to recall it and use it. I currently have in total about 1900 cards. So far of course I've been only studying through the cards for French, Portuguese, Swedish, and Tamil. But I do also have cards for Indonesian, German, Frisian, Turkish, Tagalog, Spanish, Italian, Romanian, Latin, Hungarian, Norwegian, Polish, Hindi, Japanese, Mandarin Chinese, and Korean.

A part of me has always wanted to learn all the cards in my deck. I have attempted to do that several times over the past two years, but inevitably stopped due to deciding not to study so many languages at once, or, for some reason, decided to restart the whole deck. Even now, though I have decided to study one language for a month or so at a time, I first would really like to learn all the cards in my deck. That way I could then use Anki as I would like to: add more cards as I learn new words or grammar structures. Of course if you throw in my Language Notebook Transfer project, then I have about 678 pages worth of vocabulary/grammar to add to Anki, of which I've only gone through 5 pages. It's true that some of those pages will have repeated words and such.

But all together - what I have in Anki + what I would like to add to Anki from words I've already learned in the past 5 years - means that if I want to first learn all this vocabulary, it might be a good idea to spend several months or more just studying Anki. Which is what I think I'll do. And I'll keep posting the new vocab for each day on here so that if any cards are wrong, hopefully someone will correct them. And also, perhaps someone might learn a new word or two!

PS. If you're curious about how I've set up Anki, basically when a new card is shown, if I hit good, it gets shown in 2 hours (120 minutes). At the 2 hour mark, if I hit good, it gets shown the next day (1440 minutes). The next interval is 2 days (2880 minutes), and then 3 days (4320 minutes). Only after that does the card graduate to review. That basically means I see the card 5 times in a span of 7 days while in learning.
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby dEhiN » 2017-01-20, 12:41

So I missed Anki for Jan. 18 and 19. I actually did study my usual 20 in my TAC languages for Jan 19, but wasn't able to go through them a second time (see previous post). So I saw them for the 2nd time today (Jan 20); because of this I decided not to do another new 20 for today. Also, I split my cards into 2 decks: Languages for the TAC languages, and Languages2 for all the others. I did this about 2-3 days ago, and unsuspended the Polish cards. For the second deck, though I am only going to learn 2 cards at a time, and only unsuspend one language at a time.

Alright, so without further ado, Anki for Jan. 20:

Languages
[flag=]fr[/flag] à couper le souffle breathtaking
[flag=]fr[/flag] vingt-neuf twenty-nine
[flag=]fr[/flag] le paysan farmer; peasant
[flag=]fr[/flag] trente-huit thirty-eight
[flag=]fr[/flag] selon according to
[flag=]fr[/flag] soixant-quatorze seventy-four
[flag=]fr[/flag] semer to sow; to reap
[flag=]fr[/flag] l'arme [f.] weapon
[flag=]fr[/flag] rentrer to go back in; to re-enter
[flag=]fr[/flag] l'aloès vera [m.] aloe vera
[flag=]fr[/flag] lorsque when [conj.]; as soon as
[flag=]fr[/flag] cinquante-six fifty-six

[flag=]pt-br[/flag] o lobo wolf
[flag=]pt-br[/flag] ocorrer to occur; to happen
[flag=]pt-br[/flag] o tomate tomato
[flag=]pt-br[/flag] a uva grape
[flag=]pt-br[/flag] a tarefa job; task
[flag=]pt-br[/flag] a laranja orange
[flag=]pt-br[/flag] cortar to cut

[flag=]ta-lk[/flag] வை put [verb root; imp.]

Languages2
[flag=]pl[/flag] dzień dobry good day
[flag=]pl[/flag] dobrze well
[flag=]pl[/flag] dobry good
[flag=]pl[/flag] cześć hello; hi; bye
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby dEhiN » 2017-01-21, 15:56

Anki for Jan. 21:

Languages
[flag=]fr[/flag] les courtoisies courtesies
[flag=]fr[/flag] vingt-deux twenty-two
[flag=]fr[/flag] la question question
[flag=]fr[/flag] écraser to knock down; to run down/over
[flag=]fr[/flag] abriter to shelter
[flag=]fr[/flag] la carotte carrot
[flag=]fr[/flag] quinze fifteen
[flag=]fr[/flag] couler to flow
[flag=]fr[/flag] vingt-cinq twenty-five

[flag=]pt-br[/flag] a alfândega customs (government agency)
[flag=]pt-br[/flag] o problema problem
[flag=]pt-br[/flag] a garrafa bottle
[flag=]pt-br[/flag] a refeição meal
[flag=]pt-br[/flag] a chave key
[flag=]pt-br[/flag] o morango

[flag=]sv[/flag] ja yes
[flag=]sv[/flag] jag I
[flag=]sv[/flag] (en) man -- mannen (a) man -- the man

[flag=]ta-lk[/flag] நாம் we [listener included]
[flag=]ta-lk[/flag] அவர்கள் they

Languages2
[flag=]pl[/flag] jak się masz? how are you? [cas.]
[flag=]pl[/flag] dzień day

I need to properly learn Polish phonology. It's been so long since I've looked at these words. I want to learn the IPA symbols for <sz>, <dz>, <ś>, <ć>, <cz>, <s>, <z>, <ń>, and <ę>
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-01-21, 16:51

Saim wrote:Mastery is hard - I don't know of anyone getting to C2 in anything in less than a couple of years

I was just thinking: I wonder how long it took me to get there with English.
dEhiN wrote:I want to learn the IPA symbols for <sz>, <dz>, <ś>, <ć>, <cz>, <s>, <z>, <ń>, and <ę>

AFAIK (or remember):

sz = [ʂ]
ś = [ɕ]
ć = [t͡ɕ]
cz = [t͡ʂ]
ń = [ɲ]
dz = [d͡ʑ] before <i>, [t̪͡s̪] word-finally, [d̪͡z̪] elsewhere
s = [ɕ] before <i>, [s] elsewhere
z = [ʑ] before <i>, [s] word-finally, [z] elsewhere
ę = generally [ɛ̃] but often [ɛ] word-finally, and the pronunciation of Polish vowels is apparently subject to dialect variation anyway

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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby księżycowy » 2017-01-22, 10:40

vijayjohn wrote:
dEhiN wrote:I want to learn the IPA symbols for <sz>, <dz>, <ś>, <ć>, <cz>, <s>, <z>, <ń>, and <ę>

AFAIK (or remember):

sz = [ʂ]
ś = [ɕ]
ć = [t͡ɕ]
cz = [t͡ʂ]
ń = [ɲ]
dz = [d͡ʑ] before <i>, [t̪͡s̪] word-finally, [d̪͡z̪] elsewhere
s = [ɕ] before <i>, [s] elsewhere
z = [ʑ] before <i>, [s] word-finally, [z] elsewhere
ę = generally [ɛ̃] but often [ɛ] word-finally, and the pronunciation of Polish vowels is apparently subject to dialect variation anyway

I was going to look this over and double check Vijay's answer, but Swan doesn't use IPA in his grammar (not even in the phonology sections. If I can manage to find my copy of Beginning Polish, which I'm pretty sure uses IPA at least in the reference section, I can double check.

Might I say it's also nice to see another Polish learner. I know we had talked about Polish before, but I didn't know you were learning/going to learn it. What resources are you using?

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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby dEhiN » 2017-01-23, 23:01

księżycowy wrote:Might I say it's also nice to see another Polish learner. I know we had talked about Polish before, but I didn't know you were learning/going to learn it. What resources are you using?

So far I'm just trying to relearn the 10 words or so I have in Anki. You might recall this, but back in August 2014 I attempted to simultaneously study 20 languages. And Polish was one of them. I only learned 10 basic words. And now I'm trying to relearn all the vocab in my Anki deck.

I don't have any resources for learning Polish, actually. There's a guy on here - leopejo - who speaks Polish and is quite active in the UL Skype chat. He recommended to me to first learn Russian to understand things like the palatalization found in Slavic languages, etc. But the two slavic languages that actually interest me are Polish and Croatian. (Actually, I only picked Croatian out of BCS because it uses the Latin alphabet.)
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby księżycowy » 2017-01-24, 0:12

Now that you mention it, I vaguely recall it.

Alright, I'll bite, why are you interested in those two? (Well, more so Polish, but Croatian is cool too :P )

If you get serious with Polish, I have some recommendations I can give. Let me know. :)

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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-01-24, 0:27

dEhiN wrote:Actually, I only picked Croatian out of BCS because it uses the Latin alphabet.

All three of Bosnian, Croatian, and Serbian use the Latin alphabet.

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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby dEhiN » 2017-01-24, 1:02

księżycowy wrote:Alright, I'll bite, why are you interested in those two? (Well, more so Polish, but Croatian is cool too :P )

I'm not sure why. I think the fact that they use the Latin alphabet makes it more reachable for me. I could of course learn Cyrillic and have attempted to in the past, but never stuck with it. Also I think Polish initially interested me because one of my close friends who I've known since my uni days is of Polish descent and even though he doesn't speak it that well, he does understand it.

księżycowy wrote:If you get serious with Polish, I have some recommendations I can give. Let me know. :)

I will let you know. And yeah in some respects I would like to really get serious. But if you've been following my TAC, you'll know that I've decided to finally do what most people on UL recommend and focus on one language at a time for like a short period of time. The problem is that there are so many languages I want to learn; I'm not sure when I'll get to Polish.

vijayjohn wrote:
dEhiN wrote:Actually, I only picked Croatian out of BCS because it uses the Latin alphabet.

All three of Bosnian, Croatian, and Serbian use the Latin alphabet.

Thanks, I didn't know that. Actually maybe I did, and maybe it was the fact that (iirc) only Croatian uses solely the Latin alphabet while Serbian uses both and I think Bosnian uses both. I know that you know some BCS; what's the extent of the differences between the three?
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-01-24, 1:25

dEhiN wrote:I'm not sure why. I think the fact that they use the Latin alphabet makes it more reachable for me.

What about Czech, Slovak, or Slovene then?
Thanks, I didn't know that. Actually maybe I did, and maybe it was the fact that (iirc) only Croatian uses solely the Latin alphabet while Serbian uses both and I think Bosnian uses both.

Technically, yes, but it's mainly in Republika Srpska (and no, that does not mean Serbia :P) that you'll find Cyrillic being used, whereas it's mainly Latin script that's used in the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina.
I know that you know some BCS; what's the extent of the differences between the three?

They're basically all the same language, and the differences are limited to negligible vocabulary and pronunciation differences. Even as far as pronunciation concerns, the only difference I can think of is that Bosnian is supposed to be better about conserving pitch accent.

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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby dEhiN » 2017-01-24, 1:37

vijayjohn wrote:
dEhiN wrote:I'm not sure why. I think the fact that they use the Latin alphabet makes it more reachable for me.

What about Czech, Slovak, or Slovene then?

Yeah I didn't quite know they used the Latin alphabet. I mean I knew that there were other Slavic languages that didn't use Cyrillic, but I only knew of Polish and Croatian specifically.

But my interest in Polish and Croatian weren't just motivated by them using the Latin alphabet and me not wanting to learn Cyrillic. Like I said with Polish, there was the connection of my friend. And with Croatian, there was a similar connection. A language learning friend of mine, who I met during around 2011 when I first start learning languages seriously, had learned Serbian. And because in my thinking Serbian used Cyrillic and Croatian didn't I chose Croatian. I actually used Mango Languages to start learning a little Croatian. They have both Serbian and Croatian, but I believe their Serbian course is in Cyrillic (which again furthered my script belief). In any case, I never progressed far; I only learned a few words which I forget now and never added to Anki.

vijayjohn wrote:They're basically all the same language, and the differences are limited to negligible vocabulary and pronunciation differences. Even as far as pronunciation concerns, the only difference I can think of is that Bosnian is supposed to be better about conserving pitch accent.

Since currently I don't have BCS nor Polish listed in the title of my TAC, I'll randomly pick one of my 4 TAC languages to respond: tack så mycket!
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby Saim » 2017-01-24, 3:49

dEhiN wrote:Actually maybe I did, and maybe it was the fact that (iirc) only Croatian uses solely the Latin alphabet while Serbian uses both and I think Bosnian uses both.


Bosnian only uses Latin. Cyrillic is used by Serbs in Bosnia to write Serbian.

I know that you know some BCS; what's the extent of the differences between the three?


The standard languages are nearly identical because they're all based on the Eastern Herzegovinian dialect (one of the dialects of the New Shtokavian subgroup of the Shtokavian bloc), which is mostly spoken in Bosnia and Herzegovina (which is what Vijay is referring to with the whole pitch accent thing). The prestige dialects of Belgrade and Zagreb are also based on it but accept some local influence especially in pitch accent and slang; I remember reading about a Croatian purist complaining about the "Kaikavian invasion" of Croatian television, when all he was pointing to was the use of Zagreb-influenced pitch accent (before the spread of Standard Croatian Zagreb was the largest Kaikavian city).

Standard Croatian is mostly different from Standard Serbian in that the latter is more accepting of foreign loans, whereas the former creates calques based on Slavic roots. Recently I posted some examples here. Other than that, most of the other "Croatian" forms (such as the Latin script, using the infinitive) that are often cited as differences are actually accepted in Standard Serbian. There are much more substantial differences between Standard Serbian and Standard Croatian and many of the dialects spoken in the two countries: especially those belonging to the Kaikavian, Chakavian or Torlakian groups, which could easily be classed as separate languages from the Shtokavian-based Serbian and Croatian.

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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby dEhiN » 2017-01-24, 3:58

Saim wrote:There are much more substantial differences between Standard Serbian and Standard Croatian and many of the dialects spoken in the two countries: especially those belonging to the Kaikavian, Chakavian or Torlakian groups, which could easily be classed as separate languages from the Shtokavian-based Serbian and Croatian.

Well if I ever go back to Croatian and give it proper focus, I would be learning Standard Croatian. In pretty much any language I learn, I rarely focus on dialects. As I progress in a language, I will probably learn to recognise/understand dialectal variations, especially in pronunciation but also a little in vocabulary. But since I've never been interested in only one or two languages (including its culture), I figure my learning extensively about the dialectal variation will be a waste of time. (I'm just saying for myself, not in general).

But in general, I'm like that and have always been like that: I prefer to dip my fingers into multiple pies and get a taste of each one, than to grab a spoon and eat only one pie. That's why I don't know if I could ever become a specialist in something.
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby dEhiN » 2017-01-24, 4:02

I missed doing Anki yesterday, but here's Anki for Jan. 23:

Languages
[flag=]fr[/flag] trente-et-un thirty-one
[flag=]fr[/flag] vingt-et-un twenty-one
[flag=]fr[/flag] dix-sept seventeen
[flag=]fr[/flag] quarante-cinq fourty-five
[flag=]fr[/flag] embêter to annoy
[flag=]fr[/flag] pas mal not bad
[flag=]fr[/flag] l'huile [f.] oil
[flag=]fr[/flag] quatre-vingt-un eighty-one
[flag=]fr[/flag] soixante-dix-neuf seventy-nine
[flag=]fr[/flag] cinq five
[flag=]fr[/flag] user to wear out

[flag=]pt-br[/flag] a lata can
[flag=]pt-br[/flag] pagar to pay
[flag=]pt-br[/flag] o alimento food
[flag=]pt-br[/flag] o elefante elephant
[flag=]pt-br[/flag] vir to come
[flag=]pt-br[/flag] a torre tower; steeple

[flag=]sv[/flag] vatten water
[flag=]sv[/flag] det it; that [dem. adj.]; the [only used in front of adj + noun]

Languages2
[flag=]pl[/flag] dzięki thanks
[flag=]pl[/flag] dobry wieczór good evening
Last edited by dEhiN on 2017-01-28, 20:19, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby Saim » 2017-01-24, 4:05

dEhiN wrote:Well if I ever go back to Croatian and give it proper focus, I would be learning Standard Croatian. In pretty much any language I learn, I rarely focus on dialects.


Well, for Croatian you're not going to find much for the dialects in any case. You can hear a lot of locally-coloured Standard Croatian (Zagreb intonation/slang, ikavian Dalmatian speech with some Venetian/Italian/Dalmatian loans) in popular media, but not really "true" dialects as far as I can tell. Chakavian and Kaikavian seem to be limited to folk songs and poetry.

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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-01-24, 4:13

dEhiN wrote:But in general, I'm like that and have always been like that: I prefer to dip my fingers into multiple pies and get a taste of each one, than to grab a spoon and eat only one pie. That's why I don't know if I could ever become a specialist in something.

Well, with languages, you can have your *ahem* pie and eat it, too! :whistle:

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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby dEhiN » 2017-01-24, 4:16

vijayjohn wrote:
dEhiN wrote:But in general, I'm like that and have always been like that: I prefer to dip my fingers into multiple pies and get a taste of each one, than to grab a spoon and eat only one pie. That's why I don't know if I could ever become a specialist in something.

Well, with languages, you can have your *ahem* pie and eat it, too! :whistle:

I don't get the reference! :(
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-01-24, 4:31

dEhiN wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:
dEhiN wrote:But in general, I'm like that and have always been like that: I prefer to dip my fingers into multiple pies and get a taste of each one, than to grab a spoon and eat only one pie. That's why I don't know if I could ever become a specialist in something.

Well, with languages, you can have your *ahem* pie and eat it, too! :whistle:

I don't get the reference! :(

It was supposed to be a reference to my language whore trope, although unfortunately, I think I discovered that doesn't make any sense without being combined with an obscure Frasier reference I can't seem to find a video of anymore. :lol:

[Frasier's re-married ex-wife comes to town]
FRASIER: Relax, nothing happened. My problem now is that she’s invited me to her dressing room for an...après-show tryst. Niles, if you had any idea how much pain she’s in. The woman is reaching out to me to rescue her from a loveless marriage, from a career she feels trapped in. If I could help her make a new beginning, wouldn’t it be heartless of me to deny myself to her?
NILES: Did you say something? Your penis was talking so loud I couldn’t hear.
FRASIER: All right! I want her and she wants me!
NILES: She’s. Married.
FRASIER: Well, I married her first! “Till death us do part,” as I recall! Now you may not take those vows seriously, but I do.
NILES: Will you listen to yourself?
FRASIER: Oh, this is more than just sex, Niles! This is passion, kismet...a gift the gods bestow on only a chosen few. Wouldn’t the real sin be to refuse it?
NILES: Isn’t that your old "second-piece-of-pie" argument?
FRASIER: Well, maybe it is, but I haven’t had "pie" in six months!

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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby dEhiN » 2017-01-24, 4:57

vijayjohn wrote:It was supposed to be a reference to my language whore trope, although unfortunately, I think I discovered that doesn't make any sense without being combined with an obscure Frasier reference I can't seem to find a video of anymore. :lol:

Maintenant je comprends.
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Re: TAC 2017 dEhiN - French, Brazilian Portuguese, Swedish, Sri Lankan Tamil

Postby księżycowy » 2017-01-24, 10:18

dEhiN wrote:I'm not sure why. I think the fact that they use the Latin alphabet makes it more reachable for me. I could of course learn Cyrillic and have attempted to in the past, but never stuck with it. Also I think Polish initially interested me because one of my close friends who I've known since my uni days is of Polish descent and even though he doesn't speak it that well, he does understand it.

I see. Thanks for sharing.

I will let you know. And yeah in some respects I would like to really get serious. But if you've been following my TAC, you'll know that I've decided to finally do what most people on UL recommend and focus on one language at a time for like a short period of time. The problem is that there are so many languages I want to learn; I'm not sure when I'll get to Polish.

I've been following your thread, but must have missed that.
I've always had that problem myself. Last TAC I had intended to do just that, learn one language impression of less intensively over a month or two. As you may guess, it failed.
Hell, even now when I'm focusing on a tight set of languages (if we can call 5 a "tight set" :P ), I still find myself pulling other languages books out and reading a bit from them.

I have no discipline. :oops: ... :lol:


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