TAC 2017-2018 dEhiN

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Re: TAC 2017-2018 dEhiN

Postby dEhiN » 2018-10-13, 23:07

I was thinking one to two pages a week? Lesson 1 is an introduction really, so that could be done in 1 or 2 weeks. But after that, once we get into the actual grammar, then 1 page per week works for me.
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Re: TAC 2017-2018 dEhiN

Postby dEhiN » 2018-10-13, 23:13

vijayjohn wrote:Okay, I'm willing to try to go through தமிழ் பாடநூல் and IGS at least with you (of course I'll try out a Sumerian study group!). Do you still want to do a French study group as well?

Yay (for Thamizh Paadanool and IGS)! I forgot about our plans to do a French study group. Let me give it some thought. I am tempted to go through the French version of the AA text, but the site we planned to use for the study group will help me with listening comprehension which, at this point in time, would probably help me feel a greater sense of improving in French. Eventually, though, I want to work on my reading comprehension for mid to large sized books. But maybe I can do that next year? :hmm:
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Re: TAC 2017-2018 dEhiN

Postby księżycowy » 2018-10-13, 23:34

dEhiN wrote:I was thinking one to two pages a week? Lesson 1 is an introduction really, so that could be done in 1 or 2 weeks. But after that, once we get into the actual grammar, then 1 page per week works for me.

That sounds perfect to me. I plan on only doing it once a week anyway.

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Re: TAC 2017-2018 dEhiN

Postby dEhiN » 2018-10-15, 21:02

I'm modifying my study goals a bit:

► Show Spoiler

I created a French Study Group thread here. I also created a Sumerian Study Group thread here.

I also decided to stop using Anki. I just suspended all my cards, including any unlearned ones. I thought a lot about it, and finally realized that Anki, while helpful, was also taking the joy out of language study. I had gotten to a point in my language study where I was torn: on the one hand, I wanted to become at least conversationally fluent in French, Tamil and eventually also Portuguese and Spanish; on the other hand I wanted to (and have wanted to at various points in the past) study other languages that took my fancy. The problem was that the desire to become conversationally fluent drove me to adopt a mindset of pushing myself to learn as much vocabulary as I can, and that meant using Anki to make sure I never forgot a word. My vocabulary base in French/Tamil/Portuguese/Spanish has increased in the past year or two I've been using Anki, but language learning also stopped being enjoyable most days.

So I'm going to focus on my desire to learn languages for fun. I'm not going to worry about how much I remember of grammar and vocabulary. I'll still write things out in my language notebook(s), but I'll go back to what I used to do before Anki: if I encountered a word that I had already written in my notebook but forgot the meaning of, I would write it out again. And eventually, doing that combined with things like reading/listening/writing/speaking practice would help me improve my abilities.

This might mean I'll start giving into my various wanderlusts, but that's fine. My goal for now and going forward is to have fun, as a hobbyist would, and not worry about actually reaching a level of any kind.
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Re: TAC 2017-2018 dEhiN

Postby księżycowy » 2018-10-15, 21:43

I'm in a very similar spot with Anki and drilling vocabulary with flashcards in general. I hardly ever touch my Anki decks, and only do them every so often.

I mean, I can see the good side of getting words in your head and knowing the meaning at the drop of a hat, but I'm certainly not in love with the methodology.

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Re: TAC 2017-2018 dEhiN

Postby dEhiN » 2018-10-15, 21:53

księżycowy wrote:I mean, I can see the good side of getting words in your head and knowing the meaning at the drop of a hat, but I'm certainly not in love with the methodology.

Yes, I agree; knowing the meaning is helpful, but as Saim and I have discussed before, drilling just straight vocabulary isn't that helpful a methodology. Creating context-based flashcards would be better, but the truth is that I neither had the time nor inclination to do what Saim has been doing: mining for sentence examples, or even creating my own. I could've perhaps starting creating context-based cards once Saim and I chatted, and not worried about retroactively redoing existing cards, but even that didn't appeal to me.

I realized that there are English words that I've encountered only like once or twice in my life and yet I remember the meaning. There are also ones that I don't know the exact meaning but an approximation based on the context(s) in which I've encountered them. There are also ones that I thought I knew the meaning based on the context, but then when I actually looked it up, I realized I had guessed incorrectly. And all of this doesn't impede my ability to communicate with English. So, why should I be so worried about forgetting words in my target languages?
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Re: TAC 2017-2018 dEhiN

Postby księżycowy » 2018-10-15, 22:28

Amen!

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Re: TAC 2017-2018 dEhiN

Postby dEhiN » 2018-10-16, 0:19

So my girlfriend and I were watching Moana yesterday night, and that sparked the same wanderlust for an Polynesian language that it did the first time I watched that movie. Specifically, my mind went to Maori. Perhaps it's because the setting is Ancient Polynesia? There is a song in the movie that's in what I presume to be a Polynesian language, although I'm not sure which one. My mind also went to Hawaiian and Chamorro. I know Chamorro is part of the Nuclear MP branch, and not the Polynesian branch of Malayo-Polynesian, but I still couldn't help but think of it.
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Re: TAC 2017-2018 dEhiN

Postby ceid donn » 2018-10-16, 1:45

I love Moana. While the actor who voices the character Moana is Hawaiian-American, the languages they use in the songs are Samoan and Tokelauan, which I looked into after seeing the movie for the first time. I guess Indonesian which I am actively studying falls into that broader language family--the different theories on what is related to what and how among Oceanic languages is a pretty big mess--but I want to eventually study one of the smaller Oceanic languages, which is why I have been dabbling in Hawaiian.

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Re: TAC 2017-2018 dEhiN

Postby dEhiN » 2018-10-16, 1:58

ceid donn wrote:I love Moana. While the actor who voices the character Moana is Hawaiian-American, the languages they use in the songs are Samoan and Tokelauan, which I looked into after seeing the movie for the first time. I guess Indonesian which I am actively studying falls into that broader language family--the different theories on what is related to what and how among Oceanic languages is a pretty big mess--but I want to eventually study one of the smaller Oceanic languages, which is why I have been dabbling in Hawaiian.

What are you using for Hawaiian? Meera (a former active Unilanger if you don't know her) and I briefly tried studying Hawaiian but that didn't last. I also looked into Samoan and Tokelauan at one point, as well as the language spoken on Rapa Nui.

Edit: I've also studied very briefly some Indonesian and Tagalog at some point. If you're up for it, perhaps next year we could do a study group for one of the languages spoken in Polynesia, Micronesia or Melanesia?
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Re: TAC 2017-2018 dEhiN

Postby aaakknu » 2018-10-19, 15:14

dEhiN wrote:Spanish:
  • Write out preterite forms in Spanish for regular verbs and "ser", "estar", "ir", and "fazer" in language notebook

Portuguese:
  • Write out preterite forms in Portuguese for regular verbs and "ser", "estar", "ir", and "hacer" in language notebook


"Fazer" is Portuguese and "hacer" is Spanish. :)
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Re: TAC 2017-2018 dEhiN

Postby aaakknu » 2018-10-19, 15:16

dEhiN wrote:If you're up for it, perhaps next year we could do a study group for one of the languages spoken in Polynesia, Micronesia or Melanesia?

I would join. :)
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Re: TAC 2017-2018 dEhiN

Postby dEhiN » 2018-10-19, 17:10

Salajane wrote:
dEhiN wrote:Spanish:
  • Write out preterite forms in Spanish for regular verbs and "ser", "estar", "ir", and "fazer" in language notebook

Portuguese:
  • Write out preterite forms in Portuguese for regular verbs and "ser", "estar", "ir", and "hacer" in language notebook


"Fazer" is Portuguese and "hacer" is Spanish. :)

Haha, thanks; I totally didn't catch that! I actually copied and pasted it from an Evernote note (where I wrote out my goals before posting them here), and I realized I had copied the Portuguese one and pasted it under Spanish and vice versa. So I changed the first part of the goal, but forgot to look through the list of verbs.
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Re: TAC 2017-2018 dEhiN

Postby dEhiN » 2018-10-19, 17:20

I totally forgot to write out study goals for this week. There's really just the one goal for the Tamil Study Group. Next week, both the French and Sumerian Study Groups begin, so there'll be more goals. And then I'm going to wait until November 4 to add Ojibwe.

Weekly Goals:

Tamil
  • Go through Intro 3 and Intro 4 of தமிழ் பாடநூல் - due by Oct 20

Salajane wrote:
dEhiN wrote:If you're up for it, perhaps next year we could do a study group for one of the languages spoken in Polynesia, Micronesia or Melanesia?

I would join. :)

Yay!
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Re: TAC 2017-2018 dEhiN

Postby dEhiN » 2018-10-19, 17:35

So I gave into my wanderlust for studying a Polynesian language, and started reading the Teach Yourself Maori book I have. I went through the first chapter, which is basically pronunciation, alphabet and a small smattering of vocabulary, including the articles te, he, and nga - the definite singular, indefinite singular, and definite plural, respectively. After I wrote out the articles and vocabulary in my language notebook, my first instinct was to add them to Anki. I didn't do it, but I struggled for a few minutes because the fear of forgetting what I had just written down was plaguing me. Fortunately, I eventually remembered the logic I already wrote on here - that it's ok if I forget; I'll just write words out again and again until I eventually do remember them. Today, I'm going through the Tamil study goals I just posted, and the same fear keeps coming up. I guess "undoing" the mentality that regular Anki use created in me will take a bit of time!

One of the Maori words I learned was heihei which means 'fowl'. In Moana, that was the name of Moana's chicken - Heihei! Her pig's name was Pua (if I recall correctly), but in Maori, pig is poaka. When I was going through the pronunciation section, I did pause and look up Wikipedia for Maori phonology. One thing they said was that the linguistic research shows that there seems to be more vowel quality variation than commonly believed. That surprised me because the book (admittedly published first in 1950) is pretty adamant that there is no vowel quality variation, and even goes as far as to stress that the long vowels are just doubled in length. The book also basically says (if I understood it correctly) that there are no diphthongs in Maori, but that vowel digraphs have to be pronounced with each vowel separately. Whereas, I think the Wikipedia article had a section on diphthongs. So I'm not too sure whether nowadays there are diphthongs in Maori, or perhaps the younger speakers - due to English influence - diphthongize vowel digraphs? One last phonological bit that was different between the book and Wikipedia is the letter <h>: according to the book, it's /h/, which would make heihei /heihei/, while Wikipedia says it's /ʔ/, which would make heihei /ʔeiʔei/. So I'm not sure how exactly to pronounce <h>. Perhaps there's also a difference in where <h> falls in the word, although neither source indicates such.
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Re: TAC 2017-2018 dEhiN

Postby księżycowy » 2018-10-19, 17:37

dEhiN wrote: And then I'm going to wait until November 4 to add Ojibwe.

That's not allowed. :nono:

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Re: TAC 2017-2018 dEhiN

Postby dEhiN » 2018-10-19, 17:43

księżycowy wrote:
dEhiN wrote: And then I'm going to wait until November 4 to add Ojibwe.

That's not allowed. :nono:

But...but...if I start on November 1, that's partway through the week. That'll throw off my schedule of setting weekly goals! :cry: :doggy:
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Re: TAC 2017-2018 dEhiN

Postby księżycowy » 2018-10-19, 18:03

That's not allowed either!

For you, it's required that you start immediately.

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Re: TAC 2017-2018 dEhiN

Postby dEhiN » 2018-10-19, 18:46

księżycowy wrote:That's not allowed either!

For you, it's required that you start immediately.

Can I finish my crackers and marmite first?
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Re: TAC 2017-2018 dEhiN

Postby księżycowy » 2018-10-19, 18:49

Nope!


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