TAC 2017-2018 dEhiN

[vijayjohn]

And which you don't have to share the written part of with me since I already have it.

[księżycowy]

Probably dEhiN though, as he said that he didn't have anything. And seeing as Spoken Language Services is out of business, it's not easy to buy anymore. Not would I ask him to buy it at the prices I've seen.

I don't know why, but I am partial to SAH, but that might just be because I've had it so long.

[vijayjohn]

Probably dEhiN though, as he said that he didn't have anything. And seeing as Spoken Language Services is out of business, it's not easy to buy anymore. Not would I ask him to buy it at the prices I've seen.

Of course.

I don't know why, but I am partial to SAH, but that might just be because I've had it so long.

How long?

[księżycowy]

If I had to guess, I'd say 10 years easy. It took me a few years to acquire the audio for that book though. If I remember correctly, I bought Spoken Taiwanese with the audio shortly after the book only version of Amoy Hokkien.


I meant "nor would I ask him...."

[vijayjohn]

Okay, so I guess we haven't decided for sure yet what we're using.

I just pretended to start reading SAH in the bathroom.

[księżycowy]

How does one pretend to start reading?

[vijayjohn]

One reads carelessly and without any true purpose.

[księżycowy]

So "carefree"?

[dEhiN]

What are the pros and cons of SAH vs TME? Also, do they both have audio components? If so, am I able to acquire or access the audio? And why is it called Amoy Hokkien? Is that another term for the Taiwanese Hokkien dialect?

[vijayjohn]

What are the pros and cons of SAH vs TME?

Well, TME uses Chinese characters, and SAH doesn't. I think TME might actually be a better textbook, too, since SAH seems to use its own Romanization scheme, and I'm not even sure to what extent it has exercises. Whereas TME definitely has exercises.

Also, do they both have audio components?

Yes.

If so, am I able to acquire or access the audio?

Yes. I'm sure księżycowy will ensure that everyone has access to the audio.

And why is it called Amoy Hokkien? Is that another term for the Taiwanese Hokkien dialect?

No, Amoy Hokkien is another variety of Hokkien, kind of like how British English and American English are different varieties of English. (Amoy comes from Ē-mn̂g, which is the Hokkien term for a city called Xiamen in Mandarin. Xiamen is located in a region in the PRC/mainland China just across the coast from Taiwan that's called "Hokkien" in Hokkien and "Fujian" in Mandarin. Most Taiwanese are originally from Fujian).

[księżycowy]

SAH is set up very similarly to the old FSI courses, if you've ever seen any of those. And it does have exercises. Mostly translation and substitution/expansion drills, if I remember correctly.

One major hangup in my opinion, as Vijay points out, is the transcription used, but even that isn't so far off from Tai-lo or POJ, and Tai-lo is based in part off of POJ. The biggest problem is the tone markers, as the Bodman system is completely different from Tai-lo/POJ system. But none of it is too hard to convert.


I'm also partial to Bodman because I already have everything, and want at least try out my old materials before going on to use new things. Plus I wouldn't have to print anything out (yet). But I am still open to using TME with you guys. Very much so, in fact. How about this: we test out both resources that have been tossed around for a week or two and take a vote or something?

Having played around with both resources a bit, I can safely say I can see pros and cons with both.

[vijayjohn]

I'm totally fine with that! That way, we can also test how gung-ho we are what hung hoes we are how well we can work together at the same time before plunging in!

Which book do we start off with first? I'll let (both of) you decide.

Also, what are some of the advantages of SAH? Don't say the lack of Chinese characters!

[księżycowy]

Well, for starters the audio in TME is good (and a bit clearer), don't get me wrong, but the audio in SAH (and ST) is more natural speed (IMO). The two women who speak in TME seem a bit slow and stunted in places. Which maybe for pedagogical reasons, but still. It takes them a little while to speed up consistently, but they do get there.

I think I caught the younger lady speaking Mandarin while going through a dialogue at one point too. Can't remember which lesson though.

I also like the "Listening In" exercises at the close of every chapter of SAH, which are absent from TME.

As for the characters, I actually love it when a text uses them. I just want them to use the actual Taiwanese characters, not written Mandarin. But TME saves the day by maintaining POJ through out, so I'm cool.

As I've said from the start my main goal at the moment is learning the spoken language. I don't know about you guys.

As for your other question on which to start with, I'll let dEhiN start us off with his thoughts. (Don't get caught up or muddled down with our back and forth here, dEhiN. Just go with your own thoughts.)

[księżycowy]

I think I like your "every other week" thing, dEhiN. I might modify it a bit for my purposes (I can't do that with my S Rank languages, but maybe the A and B ranks. ), but I am definately stealing that idea in some fashion.

And yes, I had to change from tiers to ranks, cause, you know, you started calling them tiers too.

[księżycowy]

So, who wants to do Southern Vietnamese instead?

[księżycowy]

I think we (and by "we" I mostly mean "you") scared dEhiN away, Vijay.

[vijayjohn]

Nah, he's just waiting for my rebuttalply.

As for your other question on which to start with, I'll let dEhiN start us off with his thoughts. (Don't get caught up or muddled down with our back and forth here, dEhiN. Just go with your own thoughts.)

How would he be able to tell? He hasn't seen these resources yet.

So, who wants to do Southern Vietnamese instead?

Too late, I already started with Northern Vietnamese as a kid.

[księżycowy]

How would he be able to tell? He hasn't seen these resources yet.

Good point. I'll create a google folder and start sticking in the audio and scan in the first chapter or two. Are you willing/able to scan to Vijay? Might be easier to double team, not that I couldn't do it on my own.

Too late, I already started with Northern Vietnamese as a kid.

All that means to me is it's even easier for you to start some Southern. And I was joking anyway.

[vijayjohn]

Good point. I'll create a google folder and start sticking in the audio and scan in the first chapter or two. Are you willing/able to scan to Vijay? Might be easier to double team, not that I couldn't do it on my own.

Wait a minute, you mean you have the audio online but not the book online?

I'm able (we scanned the photocopy of my grandfather's whole diary/memoirs, after all). I'm not so sure whether I'm willing, but you might be able to get me to do that. I'm still surprised you don't already have it online, though.

All that means to me is it's even easier for you to start some Southern.

That would be easier but probably also dumber. It's like trying to learn two Scandinavian languages at the same time!

[dEhiN]

I think I like your "every other week" thing, dEhiN. I might modify it a bit for my purposes (I can't do that with my S Rank languages, but maybe the A and B ranks. ), but I am definately stealing that idea in some fashion.

And yes, I had to change from tiers to ranks, cause, you know, you started calling them tiers too.

There's nothing wrong with us both using tiers. But what's your S Rank? What does the S stand for?

As for Taiwanese, you didn't scare me away. I'm just not able to check or reply here every day. I aim for at least once a week now, though frequently I do twice or thrice a week.

If SAH is another variety of Hokkien, then doesn't the question really become which variety of Hokkien we want to learn? I've so far never done a language by focusing primarily or exclusively on the spoken variant, so that'll be interesting. I'm torn because I want to learn Amoy Hokkien, since it seems more of a smaller language/dialect than Taiwanese. But I also feel like learning Taiwanese, especially the spoken variant, would provide more opps to use it beyond the three of us. Yet my heart is leaning toward Amoy; I'm a sucker for the little guy or underdog.