TAC 2016 - france-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby Lumilintu » 2016-08-11, 15:59

france-eesti wrote:Aitäh süür! :D

I don't understand what you mean with süür. Did you maybe want to say suur aitäh?

Yes, I remember the basics of the partitive/genitive difference. What was more tricky for me was, with "feelings". I understand your use of "meeldina" (it's like in French "plaire" or Hungarian "tetszik") so using illative "mulle meeldib" is okay. But when you "armastan" something/someone, why partitive? And when you want a dog, or when you want a kringel, is it also a partial object?

With meeldima you use the allative case (minulle), the illative would be minusse. So yes, it's the same logic as with Hungarian tetszik.
As for verbs like armastama, they express feelings. And a feeling is more a state of mind than an action with an outcome. So you either love someone or you don't, it's not like with a book that you can either read a bit and then continue another time or read through in one go.

france-eesti wrote:I think if one day I go back to Estonian, the way I'll learn it will be "always use partitive except in some special cases". Do you have an idea of which one is more used, is it something like a 50/50 or is there a 70/30 in favor of partitive?

I don't think it works that way, just deciding based on statistics. Sorry. :wink:
But I think it's easy-ish to memorize that when you finished something or the outcome is what's important (instead of the deed itself), then you should use the genitive/nominative and in other cases just the partitive. There are also some verbs that only work with partitive, like the ones you mentioned. So yes, having partitive as the "default" case would probably make more sense. Also, remember that with ära the direct object is always in genitive.

There is no doubt Estonian is easier than Hungarian :D But for some reason my brains didn't stand being shared between Estonian and Hungarian (not to mention having to leave room for Portuguese, that is slowly slipping through my fingers too).

In my case Hungarian replaced everything that was left from the French I learned in school - don't ask me why. :D

Thank you for your help too! :wink: I really appreciate it.

Võta heaks. Though I don't think I'm that much of a help as you already decided to quit Estonian.
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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby france-eesti » 2016-08-12, 7:07

Lumilintu wrote:I don't think it works that way, just deciding based on statistics. Sorry. :wink:
But I think it's easy-ish to memorize that when you finished something or the outcome is what's important (instead of the deed itself), then you should use the genitive/nominative and in other cases just the partitive.

Do you mean sometimes the direct object is expressed by nominative? And not only after "Ma olen, sa oled..."


Lumilintu wrote:In my case Hungarian replaced everything that was left from the French I learned in school - don't ask me why. :D

And Hungarian replaced everything I had learnt of Estonian and Ukrainian :shock: Wow Hungarian really takes a lot of space in our brains :D

Lumilintu wrote:Though I don't think I'm that much of a help as you already decided to quit Estonian.

True for the moment, but I am still very interested in Estonia(n).
If you decide to go back to French while I decide to go back to Estonian (because I didn't say "Hüvasti" to Estonian, just "See you later"), let me know, we'll help each other 8-)
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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby Lumilintu » 2016-08-12, 10:22

france-eesti wrote:Do you mean sometimes the direct object is expressed by nominative? And not only after "Ma olen, sa oled..."

The full-object takes the genitive in singular and the nominative in plural.
After "ma olen" it's not a direct object, but yeah, in that case it's also nominative.

If you decide to go back to French while I decide to go back to Estonian (because I didn't say "Hüvasti" to Estonian, just "See you later"), let me know, we'll help each other 8-)

I'm sorry, but I'm quite sure I won't go back to French any time soon. :whistle:
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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby france-eesti » 2016-08-12, 15:55

Too bad for me in that case :lol: no problem. Estonian will have to wait a little too to get my attention - actually that having to choose between Partitive, Genitive and Nominative is frightening me too much (maybe as much as the Hungarian prefixes, that are also my current enemies) :cry:
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Re: TAC 2016 - france-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby france-eesti » 2016-08-19, 16:10

Update...
Away from Unilang, not away from my learning...
Took some tests here and got :

[flag=]pt[/flag] = 93%
[flag=]en[/flag] = 80% (yeah, lousy, isn't it?)
[flag=]it[/flag] = 75% (omg, where did that come from? Was that actually me?)
[flag=]hu[/flag] = 71% (hey not bad!!)

[flag=]hu[/flag]
Anyway, still reading Harry Potter és a bölcsek köve, taking notes when I don't understand something, and asking my teacher on my next lesson why it's this way and not that way.
Started to speak in real life (okay, with Skype) with my teacher who is the most patient person I ever met. This one will go straight to Heaven whenever the time comes... :)
Anyway, guess what, I suck, big time, I really do, but I thought it would be even worse. All the time I spent on reading, writing, training, finally allowed me to make sentences that my teacher actually UNDERSTANDS! :silly: I thought that was impossible.
Okay, be sure he has to repeat at least 3 times his answer or his next question so that I understand only 2 words of it, but still, I'm definitely moving forward :yep:

[flag=]lt[/flag]
started it! I like it. I had one lesson yet and even though my idea isn't to learn it from the beginning to the fluent part and I'll be skilled enough to go to live in Vilnius, I just wanted to understand a little bit of it and make a comparison with Hungarian. Well I'll be shot in the head by Levike if he knows where I live haha but I like how Lithuanian sounds, maybe a bit better than how Hungarian sounds (but I love Hungarian of course!). And Lithuanian is more "logical" to me, than Hungarian. No definite/indefinite, no personal suffixes, classical declensions... I'll be slow on this one but I am curious and will carry on (at my own pace of course) :)

[flag=]pt[/flag]
Trying hard not to lose this one. The 93% score was a great reward for me and I'm upset I did more in Portuguese, that I studied only for 1 year, than in English that I studied for more than 10 years. F*der!!!!!!

[flag=]en[/flag]
Met this woman who did the proof-reading of my novels! I was very glad to meet her and she said my mistakes in English were minor and quite "innocent". Still, there were a lot of them and my main problem was prepositions (on/with/for/in/upon/into...) and let/leave. Well one day maybe... :ohwell:

That's all for now :partyhat:

EDIT: blackened the English part because am mortified by the mistakes I did in "The person after me" game :shock:
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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby Michael » 2016-09-23, 17:57

Oi! Como vai o persa? Ainda tentas aprender?
American English (en-us) Pizzonese (nap) N Italian (it) Mexican Spanish (es-mx) Brazilian Portuguese (pt-br) Albanian (sq) B1 Greek (el) Persian (fa) A2 Turkish (tr) Azerbaijani (az) Old English (en_old) A1
“Iċ eom māra þonne þes middanġeard; lǣssa þonne håndwyrm; leohtre þonne mōna; swiftre þonne sunne.”

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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby vijayjohn » 2016-09-23, 18:18

Quando ela disse que aprendia o persa? :hmm:

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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby Osias » 2016-09-24, 1:41

Michael wrote:Oi! Como vai o persa? Ainda tentas aprender?

Soas demasiado lusitano, ó pá! Digas "ainda está tentando".¹

¹ - tentativa de soar lusitano.

vijayjohn wrote:Quando ela disse que aprendia o persa? :hmm:

Tu, não sei onde miras², mas se for no pt-br, "estava aprendendo persa" soa melhor.

² - ok, vou parar com essa zoeira.
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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby Michael » 2016-09-24, 5:23

Osias wrote:Soas demasiado lusitano, ó pá! Digas "ainda está tentando".¹

¹ - tentativa de soar lusitano.

E soar demasiado lusitano é o que pretendi fazer. Você sabe, os lugares nos cujos posso praticar o português europeu são poucos, assim que ao menos, eu queria fingir que consigo compreendê-lo bem. :P

vijayjohn wrote:Quando ela disse que aprendia o persa? :hmm:

Talvez eu tenha confundido-a com outro membro, mas se me lembro bem, não foi ela mesma quem expressou interesse em começar a aprender persa noutro fio de discussão? Senão, france-eesti, me perdoas!
American English (en-us) Pizzonese (nap) N Italian (it) Mexican Spanish (es-mx) Brazilian Portuguese (pt-br) Albanian (sq) B1 Greek (el) Persian (fa) A2 Turkish (tr) Azerbaijani (az) Old English (en_old) A1
“Iċ eom māra þonne þes middanġeard; lǣssa þonne håndwyrm; leohtre þonne mōna; swiftre þonne sunne.”

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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby vijayjohn » 2016-09-24, 6:15

Michael wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:Quando ela disse que aprendia o persa? :hmm:

Talvez eu tenha confundido-a com outro membro, mas se me lembro bem, não foi ela mesma quem expressou interesse em começar a aprender persa noutro fio de discussão? Senão, france-eesti, me perdoas!

Talvez seja Antea?

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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby Antea » 2016-09-24, 6:34

Não, issa foi eu :ohwell:

france-eesti wrote:Started to speak in real life


I think that if you're able to have a conversation with someone in a language, understand what he/she says and being understood, that's a good test of the language level :yep:

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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby france-eesti » 2016-09-24, 7:15

Michael wrote:Talvez eu tenha confundido-a com outro membro, mas se me lembro bem, não foi ela mesma quem expressou interesse em começar a aprender persa noutro fio de discussão? Senão, france-eesti, me perdoas!


O persa? :shock: Ah, acho que não fui eu!!! Sinto-o! Estou apenas com o inglês, o português e o húngaro.
Tentei iniciar o lituaniano :?: (não sei como se escreve) mas não funcionou.

I am so sorry there was some misunderstanding! I didn't plan to learn Persian so far! I'm just with English, Portuguese and Hungarian. I tried to start with Lithuanian but I didn't succeed (and to be fair, I didn't give it the attention it deserved - but maybe later). Not to mention Estonian is never very far in my thoughts. I also decided my next birthday would be in Prague so maybe I take a tiny bit of Czech.

But I am very European :) so for the moment Persian isn't in my plans.

Antea wrote:I think that if you're able to have a conversation with someone in a language, understand what he/she says and being understood, that's a good test of the language level

Ah, I wish I could, but I am very weak in Hungarian. I am also afraid my teacher gets tired of trying to be understood but I would really like to try more with him (he's back on his sunny mood again and it's just pure joy to learn with him). Although I started to talk to myself in Hungarian (that's very good for my schizophrenia! :lol: ), I am not sure I can hold a conversation with a real Hungarian :silly:
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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby vijayjohn » 2016-09-24, 13:19

france-eesti wrote:I am so sorry there was some misunderstanding!

Don't worry; it's not your fault. He probably just confused you with Antea. :)

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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby Michael » 2016-09-24, 14:48

vijayjohn wrote:Don't worry; it's not your fault. He probably just confused you with Antea. :)

Indeed. I am horribly sorry, france-eesti and Antea, for the confusion! :oops: I will transfer to Antea's thread, accordingly.
American English (en-us) Pizzonese (nap) N Italian (it) Mexican Spanish (es-mx) Brazilian Portuguese (pt-br) Albanian (sq) B1 Greek (el) Persian (fa) A2 Turkish (tr) Azerbaijani (az) Old English (en_old) A1
“Iċ eom māra þonne þes middanġeard; lǣssa þonne håndwyrm; leohtre þonne mōna; swiftre þonne sunne.”

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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby Osias » 2016-09-24, 15:22

Antea wrote:Não, essa fui eu :ohwell:



france-eesti wrote:lituano
2017 est l'année du (fr) et de l'(de) pour moi. Parle avec moi en eux, s'il te plait.

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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby france-eesti » 2016-09-24, 17:48

Nem baj!
Pas de problème !
There's nothing wrong!
Não tem problema :D

Nobody got injured :silly:
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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby vijayjohn » 2016-09-24, 17:50

"No UniLangers were harmed in the making of this post!" :silly:

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Re: TAC 2016 - fance-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby france-eesti » 2016-09-24, 18:23

vijayjohn wrote:"No UniLangers were harmed in the making of this post!" :silly:


Absolutely! :lol:
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Re: TAC 2016 - france-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby france-eesti » 2016-11-14, 6:17

Hi! It's been a while. So here's a quick update.

[flag=]pt[/flag] = Not giving up! Took a book out of the child/teenage section in the public library "Doçura amarga" (about diabetes - my current fight, actually :lol: ) and was happy to finish it in 3 days. Real Portuguese from Portugal. Now I took Jorge Amado (Brazilian). Let's see how it goes!

[flag=]en[/flag] = Finished writing my last story in English and already got an offer for proof-reading! I intend to put this one as a free e-book, my self-publisher website explained to me how to do it. I just have to gather my courage and format the file.

[flag=]et[/flag] = Am falling in love again... Wow, I wasn't finished with Estonian after all. Especially when Prantsis told me they had only 6 locative cases (VS 9 in Hungarian). So, maybe I won't be defeated by partitive after all :D

[flag=]hu[/flag] = Still studying some 2 hours everyday and trying to speak also twice a week with my 2 Conversation Partners. I so love Hungarians. I wrote a short story in Hungarian too and Conversation Partner #1 has been the unfortunate one who is doing the correction. Hungarian is still my big love, though people are scornful and mocking me for that, I just (as we say in French) "shit on them" and think about something else.

That's it for now 8-)
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Re: TAC 2016 - france-eesti (English, Portuguese, Hungarian, Estonian)

Postby Osias » 2016-11-14, 14:03

france-eesti wrote:Now I took Jorge Amado (Brazilian). Let's see how it goes!

Cool! What book? I actually never read, just saw (some) the TV adaptations.
2017 est l'année du (fr) et de l'(de) pour moi. Parle avec moi en eux, s'il te plait.


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