Linguaphile's 2023 Estonian and Spanish reading log

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Linguaphile
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Re: Linguaphile's 2023 Estonian and Spanish reading log

Postby Linguaphile » 2023-07-24, 14:16

(et) Kristi Ilvese Minu Mulgimaa
lk 154-161 ("Mulgi keel - kas Võru keele viletsam variant?")
Olen jõudnud selle raamatu keeleteemaliste peatükkideni, hurraa!

    Esiteks küsin tavaliselt, kas võin kõnelda või pean rääkima.
    At first, I usually ask if I can speak in the Mulgi language or if I must speak in standard Estonian.
      Kõnelda ja rääkida võib kirjakeeles sünonüümid olla, aga mulgi keeles sõna "rääkida" ei kasutata. Siin, Kristi Ilves kasutab neid kahte sõna nii:
      kõnelema mulgi keelemurdes rääkima
      rääkima kirjakeeles rääkima
      She says this without naming either language, just using different verbs for the different language varieties. Here is a list with the different verbs for speaking different languages in Finnic languages. The Mulgi usage is closer to Võro (kõnõlõma) than to standard Estonian (rääkima) and the word "rääkima" is not used in the Mulgi language (or Võro or Seto).
    Poolnaljaga ütlen mulgi keelt tutvustades, et kui keerata seto keelest vurhvi veidi vähemaks, siis saab võru keele, ja kui sellest ka veel kangust maha võtta, saabki mulgi keele.
    Half-jokingly, when I introduce the Mulgi language, I say that if you turn down the Seto brogue a little lower then you get the Võru language, and if you also take away its strength, then you get the Mulgi language.
      vurhv klanitud välimus; olek, laad (vurhvi moodi, laadi; vurhvima üles lööma, ehtima
      Vurhv is an interesting word choice here, it can just mean "way" or "manner", but also "primness", "adornment" or "dressing up". "Brogue" doesn't have quite the same connotations but none of the other words I could think of seem to have the right connotation either. Lilt? Twang? Drawl? Burr? "Brogue" at least refers to a collection of features of a particular way of speaking, rather than to specific types of sounds, so it seems closest, but still not quite right.
    Lõunaeesti keelt, mille hulka kuulub ka mulgi keel, peetakse üheks vanemaks läänemeresoome hõimukeeleks. See eraldus läänemeresoome algkeelest ühena esimestest arvatavasti umbes 2000 aasta eest ning on seega tunduvalt vanem kui eesti kirjakeel.
    The South Estonian language, to which Mulgi belongs, is thought to be one of the oldest languages of the Balto-Finnic tribes. It was one of the first to separate from the Finno-Baltic proto-language, probably around 2000 years ago, and therefore it is considerably older than standard written Estonian.

    Kui me aga tavainimesena ei kasuta keeleteaduslikku lähenemist, siis meeldib kõige lõunaeestlastele oma kohalikku kõnepruuki ikka keeleks kutsuda. Kõneleme ju uhkusega oma keelt, mitte ei murra midagi.
    If we, as ordinary people, aren't using a linguistic approach, then all South Estonians like to call their local way of speaking a "language". After all we speak our language with pride; there's nothing "broken" about it.
      This is difficult to translate because of the double meanings these words have in Estonian, which affects the connotations of their use:
      keel language, but also "tongue"
      murre dialect, but also "break", "fragmentation", "breaking point"
      murrak subdialect, etymologically related to murre (and to murrang "fault, upheaval")
      So in Estonian the use of the words for "dialect" (whether murre for a larger group of them or murrak for a more localized one) implies a fragment or broken piece while the word for "language" implies a more complete "tongue" or "way of speaking". The concept of "dialect" therefore comes across much like the way we might say in English that someone speaks "broken English". When she says mitte ei murra midagi, the literal translation is "we aren't breaking anything".
    Pealegi pole teadlased saavutanud seni üksmeelt küsimuses, mis eristab keelt murdest. Ühe arvamuse kohaselt see, et ühe keele piires eri murrete kõnelejad saavad üksteistest aru, eri keelte kõnelejad mitte. Aga kas põline tallinlane saab ikka alati setost aru?
    Additionally, linguists haven't yet reached an agreement on the question of what distinguishes a language from a dialect. According to one school of thought, within the boundaries of a language those who speak different dialects understand each other, while speakers of different languages do not. But does a native from Tallinn really always understand Seto?

    Või kõnelejate arv? Et keel on see, millel on vähemalt... kõnelejat.
    Or the number of speakers? That a language is one which has at least... speakers.
      I think we are supposed to fill in the blank with any number there, rather than to understand it as saying "a language has speakers [and a dialect might not]". Nevertheless, it's easy to translate even without being sure of that because the same ambiguity comes across in both languages.
    Või hoopis see, et keel on selline murre, millel on sõjavägi ja laevastik ehk oma riik? Aga alati ei ole ju! Seega on keele ja murde vahekord pigem poliitiline kui keelest endast lähtuv otsus.
    Or instead, that a language is a dialect with an army and a navy, or its own country? But that isn't always the case! Then the difference between a language and a dialect would be more of a political decision than one based on language itself.
      I think this last definition has always been quite tongue-in-cheek, but when you consider the twists and turns and precipices of history, the experience of linguistic minorities, and how countries and borders can change, it's an especially awkward definition for a language if taken seriously. (So we shall not.)

loqu wrote:First conciliábulo and now ustorio, I love learning new words in my native language through this forum! :)

:lol:
I’m constantly hunting for words. I would describe the process like this: every day I go into the woods carrying a basket. I find words all around: on the trees, in the bushes, on the ground (in reality: on the street, during conversations, while I read). I gather as many as possible. -Jhumpa Lahiri

Linguaphile
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Re: Linguaphile's 2023 Estonian and Spanish reading log

Postby Linguaphile » 2023-07-25, 13:38

(et) Rutt Hinrikuse Eesti elulookirjandus
lk 227-238 ("Otto Wilhelm Masing")
    imal ebameeldivalt magus, vastumeelselt magusavõitu
    kõlvuline kõlblik; millekski sobiv või kohane, teatud nõuetele vastav
    pirtsakas kergesti haavuv või vihastuv, tujukas; ülivaliv, pretensioonikas
    tratt = käskveksel veksel, mille andja kohustab kolmandat isikut veksli omanikule võlasumma välja maksma
    tõrges (tõrksa, tõrgest/tõrksat) selline, kes meelsasti kuuletu, raskesti juhitav
    veksel dokument, mis kohustab selle andjat kas kindlaksmääratud kuupäeval või ettenäitamisel maksma märgitud rahasumma
I’m constantly hunting for words. I would describe the process like this: every day I go into the woods carrying a basket. I find words all around: on the trees, in the bushes, on the ground (in reality: on the street, during conversations, while I read). I gather as many as possible. -Jhumpa Lahiri

Linguaphile
Posts:5320
Joined:2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Linguaphile's 2023 Estonian and Spanish reading log

Postby Linguaphile » 2023-07-26, 13:05

(et) Kristi Ilvese Minu Mulgimaa
lk 162-168 ("Teeme sõnaraamatut")
    trükilõhnaline trükivärvi järele lõhnav
    Literally, it's referring to the smell of freshly-printed books, books with an ink smell.

    trükilõhnalistele raamatuvirnadele me kauaks puhkama ei jää
    we can't rest on our piles of freshly-printed books for long
    I didn't understand at first why they have used the allative case here, or why they would rest on piles of books, but initially I was in "literal mode" and it is a play on words based on loorberitel puhkama "to rest on one's laurels", from which we can also make loorberitele puhkama ei jää in just the same way.

(es) El siglo soviético por Karl Schlögel
pp. 431-448 ("Zhilmassiv o el sublime macizo prefabricado")
    capitel parte superior de una columna o de una pilastra, que la corona con forma de moldura y ornamentación
    merendero instalación al aire libre apropiada para comer; sitio en que se merienda
    paisajista especialista en el diseño de parques y jardines y en la planificación del entorno natural; pintor de paisajes
    pilastro elemento adosado al muro, de sección cuadrangular, con función de soporte

    Dice que tiene sesenta y nueve años. Nosotros le habríamos echado ochenta.
    She says she's sixty-nine years old. We would have guessed eighty. o We would have taken her for eighty.
I’m constantly hunting for words. I would describe the process like this: every day I go into the woods carrying a basket. I find words all around: on the trees, in the bushes, on the ground (in reality: on the street, during conversations, while I read). I gather as many as possible. -Jhumpa Lahiri

Linguaphile
Posts:5320
Joined:2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Linguaphile's 2023 Estonian and Spanish reading log

Postby Linguaphile » 2023-07-27, 13:24

(et) Kristi Ilvese Minu Mulgimaa
lk 169-176 ("Raadiouudiste raske ja rõõmus teekond")
    järelkuulama eetris olnud saadet arvutivõrgu kaudu tagantjärele, hiljem kuulama
    läkaköha laste äge nakkushaigus, mida iseloomustavad kramplikud köhahood
    vana kala kogenud, kogemustega inimene (tunnen end juba vana kalana)
    veemõnula basseinidega, veeatraktsioonidega jm. varustatud ajaviite-veekeskus
I’m constantly hunting for words. I would describe the process like this: every day I go into the woods carrying a basket. I find words all around: on the trees, in the bushes, on the ground (in reality: on the street, during conversations, while I read). I gather as many as possible. -Jhumpa Lahiri

Linguaphile
Posts:5320
Joined:2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Linguaphile's 2023 Estonian and Spanish reading log

Postby Linguaphile » 2023-07-28, 13:51

(et) Kristi Ilvese Minu Mulgimaa
lk 177-182 ("Oma häälekandja")
    pole halli aimugi pole vähematki, ähmast, udust aimugi
    tigetsema tige olema, tigedust ilmutama (tigetseja)
(es) El siglo soviético por Karl Schlögel
pp. 449-462 ("Russkaia glubinka - El país más allá de las grandes ciudades")
    depauperar empobrecer (depauperación impoverishment)
    feligrés persona que pertenece a una parroquia determinada
    gleba terrón que se levanta con el arado; tierra de cultivo
    hacendoso solícito y diligente en las tareas domésticas
    plusproducto producto creado por los trabajadores que sobrepasa sus necesidades materiales
I’m constantly hunting for words. I would describe the process like this: every day I go into the woods carrying a basket. I find words all around: on the trees, in the bushes, on the ground (in reality: on the street, during conversations, while I read). I gather as many as possible. -Jhumpa Lahiri

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Re: Linguaphile's 2023 Estonian and Spanish reading log

Postby Naava » 2023-07-28, 22:29

Linguaphile wrote:
Naava wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:seiväs teivas (seibäge teibake)

I was surprised to see this - it's the same as in Finnish (seiväs) - but when I checked and saw that both seiväs and teivas seem to be borrowed from Proto-Baltic *staipas, I was even more amazed that both Mulgi dialect and Finnish have ended up with the same form while standard Estonian did not.

The Mulgi sõnastik actually says teiväs instead, but the author of the book I'm reading, who is a speaker of it (from the eastern part of Mulgimaa), used seiväs in the book. Standard Võro has saivas with variations saivass, saibass and saavass. It's all a continuum so it's not surprising that somewhere between teiväs and saivass there would also be seiväs (and that it would be in the eastern Mulgi region near the transition from teivas to saivass, which is precisely where the author is from - the area marked Trv near that border, on the eastern edge of the brownish-colored section in the south of the teivas map linked below. The area just south of there, marked Hel on the map, apparently uses both a form of teivas and a form of saivas and it is marked on both maps). You are right, it's fascinating that it ended up the same as Finnish - it does seem to have developed that way independently from Finnish, given all that variation (although, given all that variation, maybe it was inevitable that some variety would end up the same as Finnish!).

Wow, thanks! 😮 I never expected there to be this much variation, but now it's even cooler that at least one person in Mulgimaa uses the same form as Finnish.

The proto-form for inessive in West Finnic was *-snA .Guess what, I googled for more info and the first link that came up compares South Estonian with South Ostrobothnian so I guess I'll be posting that here: :mrgreen:
From The Position of Leivu by Petri Kallio, page 10:

:lol: What a coincidence! But that was very interesting, thanks for sharing!

Some western Saami languages do have -n for inessive as well. "In the forest" is miehtsen in both Pite Saami and Lule Saami (and mõtsan in both Võro and Mulgi). In Inari Saami, it's the illative ending instead: miäcán [pronounced miätsän] "into the forest".

Do you know if the illative from developed from the locative and/or if it was influenced by Finnish illative (metsään)?

I checked and South Saami has -sne for inessive - I did remember it had something to do with these old endings and that I had thought it was cool. :)

Linguaphile wrote:päädima lõppema

Do you know what the difference between the two is? They look a lot like Finnish päättyä and loppua (or päättymä / loppuma) but I couldn't find päädima in a dictionary. :hmm:

Linguaphile wrote:korp väike sõõrjas kohupiimast kattega saiake

Do you have a photo of this? The word reminds me of korppu but the meaning doesn't match.

A list of words I didn't expect to see in Estonian (for my own amusement):
Linguaphile wrote:aldis (alti, aldist) millelegi vastuvõtlik; kergesti mõjustatav
ülle selga (rõiva, rõivastuse kohta)
soomendus soomekeelne tõlge (soomendaja soome keelde tõlkija)
taies (taiese, taiest) kunstiteos (taie, taide, taiet kunst)
kõlvuline kõlblik; millekski sobiv või kohane, teatud nõuetele vastav
paika pidama paigal püsima; tõele vastama, põhjendatud olema
kõiksus kõik olemasolev, universum

(altis, ylle, suomennos/suomentaja, taide, kelvollinen, pitää paikkansa, kaikkeus)

Linguaphile wrote:tuleroog miski ärapõletatav või ärapõlev

I'm not sure if I've heard it in this form, but you can definitely say that something "jäi tulen ruuaksi" in Finnish. (Another example here.)

Linguaphile wrote:Kui me aga tavainimesena ei kasuta keeleteaduslikku lähenemist, siis meeldib kõige lõunaeestlastele oma kohalikku kõnepruuki ikka keeleks kutsuda. Kõneleme ju uhkusega oma keelt, mitte ei murra midagi.
If we, as ordinary people, aren't using a linguistic approach, then all South Estonians like to call their local way of speaking a "language". After all we speak our language with pride; there's nothing "broken" about it.

This was an interesting text because I could swear I've read something similar about Finnish murre, which implies the same idea of "breaking" the dialect from standard language (which is, of course, incorrect in so many ways).

I also found it interesting that the writer here says her people proudly call their way of speaking "language", because in (everyday-) Finnish, the distinction between kieli and murre isn't that strict and you can hear people refer to dialects as languages. The most common example of this is definitely the dialect of Rauma or rauman giäl, which I've never heard called murre in their dialect (it's always giäl), but we also have e.g. Tampereen kiäli. You can also say you speak savvoo in the same way you would say you speak englantia, suomea or viroa. (I can't resist linking this blog post that has used both "savo" as a language and the phrase "savon kieli", even though I doubt you can read it.) Anyway, it looks like this is not the case in Estonian and only applies to Mulgi dialect, then?

Pealegi pole teadlased saavutanud seni üksmeelt küsimuses, mis eristab keelt murdest. Ühe arvamuse kohaselt see, et ühe keele piires eri murrete kõnelejad saavad üksteistest aru, eri keelte kõnelejad mitte. Aga kas põline tallinlane saab ikka alati setost aru? Või kõnelejate arv? Et keel on see, millel on vähemalt... kõnelejat. Või hoopis see, et keel on selline murre, millel on sõjavägi ja laevastik ehk oma riik? Aga alati ei ole ju! Seega on keele ja murde vahekord pigem poliitiline kui keelest endast lähtuv otsus.

Well said!

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Re: Linguaphile's 2023 Estonian and Spanish reading log

Postby Linguaphile » 2023-07-29, 0:53

Naava wrote:
"In the forest" is miehtsen in both Pite Saami and Lule Saami (and mõtsan in both Võro and Mulgi). In Inari Saami, it's the illative ending instead: miäcán [pronounced miätsän] "into the forest".

Do you know if the illative from developed from the locative and/or if it was influenced by Finnish illative (metsään)?

I checked and South Saami has -sne for inessive - I did remember it had something to do with these old endings and that I had thought it was cool.

Proto-Saamic had *-snē for inessive! And *-s̯ën for illative.

Naava wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:päädima lõppema

Do you know what the difference between the two is? They look a lot like Finnish päättyä and loppua (or päättymä / loppuma) but I couldn't find päädima in a dictionary. :hmm:

It looks like they are basically synonyms with each other, and cognates with the Finnish words, but päädima is used less often. Not that I'm an expert here - it was in my post because päädima was new to me. Apparently (see below) at one point they considered adopting päätuma as a loan from Finnish, with the same meaning as päädima and loaned from Finnish päättyä, but it didn't catch on. (In other words päädima is a natural cognate, while päätuma, if it had caught on, would have been an artificial loan.)

päädima in Eesti õigekeelsussõnaraamat:
päädima lõppema, tipnema. Pidu päädis kaklusega

päädima in Eesti keele seletav sõnaraamat:
päädima ‹37›
1. lõppema. Tartu asumisega päädis üks etapp tema õpetajatöös. Pikk põud päädis sajuga. Kirjaniku viljakas tööaasta päädis romaani valmimisega. *Tänavad aga jätkusid ja ristlesid, päädides enamasti ometi umbsoppi. F. Tuglas. *Hommikune klientide vool päädis, tüdruk katkestas töö. O. Remsu.
2. tipnema, tipuks, haripunktiks olema. *Viljakad proosa-aastad päädivad [A. Kitzbergil] kaksikjutustusega „Veli Henn” ja „Hennu Veli”.. V. Alttoa. *Juudi religiooni võtmesündmus on väljaränd Egiptusest, mis päädib lepinguga Jumala ja heebrealaste vahel. E. Simmermann (tlk).

I also found this:
Küsimus: Mida tähendab sõna päädima ja kuidas seda kasutada? Kas on tulnud soome keelest, ja kui, siis millal? Kas ta on Aaviku sõna?

Vastus: Sõna päädima kasutatakse suhteliselt harva, sest tavaline sõna on lõppema. Kasutatud on näiteks niimoodi: "Tallinnast Tartusse kolimisega päädis üks ajajärk tema elus. Pikk põud päädis suure sajuga." See ongi harilik: miski päädis millegagi, aga võib öelda ka: miski päädis kuhugi. Nt "Tänavad jätkusid ja ristlesid, päädides enamasti ometi umbsoppi." Selle kuhu saab ka ütlemata jätta, nt "Valime ühe tee ja lohutame end mõttega, et kõik ülejäänud teed võivad päädida halvemini". Kasutus on seega samasugune nagu sõnal lõppema, nii et neid võib pidada sünonüümideks.

"Eesti kirjakeele seletussõnaraamatus" on päädima-verbil veel teinegi tähendus 'tipnema, tipuks, haripunktiks olema' — miski päädib millegagi. See on küll natuke raske, sest kontekstist ei pruugi aru saada, kummas tähenduses autor on oma päädimist mõelnud. Nt "Kirjaniku varasem loomeperiood päädis romaaniga" — kas lõppes romaaniga või oli romaan selle perioodi tipp?

Päädima ei ole Johannes Aaviku sõna. Aavik soovitas natuke teistsugust kuju päätuma, mis on puhas soome laen: sellele vastab soome sõna päättyä. "Uute sõnade sõnastiku" 2. trükis 1921 on ettepanekustaadiumis soome laensõnadena esitatud nii päätma 'lõpetama' kui ka päätuma 'lõppema'. Sõnas päädima võib oletada meie oma murdekeelt ja soome mõju koos, igatahes Johannes Voldemar Veski "Eesti õigekeelsuse-sõnaraamatu" II köites 1930. aastal on see sõna juba sees, kuid kahjuks seletuseta.



Naava wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:korp väike sõõrjas kohupiimast kattega saiake

Do you have a photo of this? The word reminds me of korppu but the meaning doesn't match.

The meanings don't match, but it seems both come from Swedish skorpa. In Estonian it's this:
Image
and these:
Image

Naava wrote:A list of words I didn't expect to see in Estonian (for my own amusement):
...
taies (taiese, taiest) kunstiteos (taie, taide, taiet kunst)
...taide...

This one was a direct loan from Finnish coined during the language reform period.

Naava wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:tuleroog miski ärapõletatav või ärapõlev

I'm not sure if I've heard it in this form, but you can definitely say that something "jäi tulen ruuaksi" in Finnish. (Another example here.)

I find it amusing, but mostly because you can have things like jõuluroog (what you eat at Christmas) and peoroog (what you eat at a party) so tuleroog sounds like it should be what you eat when there's a fire. :whistle:

Naava wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:Kui me aga tavainimesena ei kasuta keeleteaduslikku lähenemist, siis meeldib kõige lõunaeestlastele oma kohalikku kõnepruuki ikka keeleks kutsuda. Kõneleme ju uhkusega oma keelt, mitte ei murra midagi.
If we, as ordinary people, aren't using a linguistic approach, then all South Estonians like to call their local way of speaking a "language". After all we speak our language with pride; there's nothing "broken" about it.

This was an interesting text because I could swear I've read something similar about Finnish murre, which implies the same idea of "breaking" the dialect from standard language (which is, of course, incorrect in so many ways).

I also found it interesting that the writer here says her people proudly call their way of speaking "language", because in (everyday-) Finnish, the distinction between kieli and murre isn't that strict and you can hear people refer to dialects as languages. The most common example of this is definitely the dialect of Rauma or rauman giäl, which I've never heard called murre in their dialect (it's always giäl), but we also have e.g. Tampereen kiäli. You can also say you speak savvoo in the same way you would say you speak englantia, suomea or viroa. (I can't resist linking this blog post that has used both "savo" as a language and the phrase "savon kieli", even though I doubt you can read it.) Anyway, it looks like this is not the case in Estonian and only applies to Mulgi dialect, then?

It's not limited to the Mulgi variety, no. After what I quoted, she also said Ja lõunaeestlased on otsustanud, et igaühel on oma keel. Kui mulgid ja tartlased lepivad sellega, et nende kõnepruuki murdeks kutsutakse, siis võrukad ja setod panevad seda väga pahaks. ("And South Estonians* have decided that each has its own language. If Mulks and Tartuans agreed that their way of speaking was called a dialect, then Võros and Setos would frown on that.")
I just hadn't fully understood the way that is different from the same discussion ("language" versus "dialect") in English, the connotation of "breaking", which comes from the etymology of the word murre "dialect" itself in Estonian (and in Finnish, but not in English).

*South Estonians = the Tartu, Mulgi, Võro and Seto linguistic/cultural groups

Edit: added a quote to the last section, and definition of "South Estonian", for clarification of the earlier quote.
Last edited by Linguaphile on 2023-07-30, 15:40, edited 1 time in total.
I’m constantly hunting for words. I would describe the process like this: every day I go into the woods carrying a basket. I find words all around: on the trees, in the bushes, on the ground (in reality: on the street, during conversations, while I read). I gather as many as possible. -Jhumpa Lahiri

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Posts:5320
Joined:2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Linguaphile's 2023 Estonian and Spanish reading log

Postby Linguaphile » 2023-07-29, 15:31

(et) Kristi Ilvese Minu Mulgimaa
lk 183-188 ("Murderingid - kas ainult hulludele?")
    ahtake kitsukene
    nagu paisu tagant välja millestki tagasihoidvast või vaoshoidvast vabanedes, hooga
    plagiaat teise isiku loodud teose avaldamine oma nime all

    Teise murderingi saan vedada 2015. aastal Tõrvas ja see koondab Helme kihelkonna omakultuurihuvilisi.
    I got to lead a second dialect circle in 2015 in Tõrva, and it brought together people interested in local culture from Helme parish.

    Ma ei võta seda kui plagiaadikahtlustust, vaid pigem kui komplimenti oma hea mulgi keele ja sisuka kirjatüki kohta.
    I don't take that as a suspicion of plagiarism, but rather as a compliment about my good Mulgi dialect and rich text.
I’m constantly hunting for words. I would describe the process like this: every day I go into the woods carrying a basket. I find words all around: on the trees, in the bushes, on the ground (in reality: on the street, during conversations, while I read). I gather as many as possible. -Jhumpa Lahiri

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Re: Linguaphile's 2023 Estonian and Spanish reading log

Postby Linguaphile » 2023-07-31, 16:00

(et) Kristi Ilvese Minu Mulgimaa
lk 189-194 ("Kellele see keel?")
    kodulugu algkooli õppeaine, mis annab algteadmisi lähema ümbruskonna loodus- ja ühiskonnanähtustest
    kängus kasvus, arengus normaalsest tasemest taga, kiratsev, kidur
    omadega mäel olla eesmärgil olema
I’m constantly hunting for words. I would describe the process like this: every day I go into the woods carrying a basket. I find words all around: on the trees, in the bushes, on the ground (in reality: on the street, during conversations, while I read). I gather as many as possible. -Jhumpa Lahiri

Linguaphile
Posts:5320
Joined:2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Linguaphile's 2023 Estonian and Spanish reading log

Postby Linguaphile » 2023-08-01, 16:35

(et) Kristi Ilvese Minu Mulgimaa
lk 195-203 ("Mulgi keel — luulekeel")
    kilama läikima, hiilgama, helkima
    koduvärav koduõue värav
    vemmalvärss uuemas eesti rahvaluules lõppriimiline kaksikvärss
    viljelema maad harima; loovalt harrastama (viljeleja)
    vähe sellest see pole veel kõik
    värsisepp luuletaja (võiks arvata, et isehakanud värsiseppadel pole siin lootuski)

    kilasive (et) kilasid
    pappeld (et) paplit (part sing; nom sing (et) pappel)
    sihen (et) sees
    värät (väräti, värätit) (et) värav

    Tiiat, latseke, mia akka vanas jäämä. Kik nime ei tule enämb miilde.
    (et) Tead, lapseke, ma hakkan vanaks jääma. Kõik nimed ei tule enam meelde.
    (en) You know, child, I'm starting to get old. Not all the names come to mind anymore.
(es) El siglo soviético por Karl Schlögel
pp. 465-474 ("Spetsjran — catálogo de libros prohibidos")
    (de) corte estilo (de corte propagandístico)
    grupúsculo grupo poco numeroso que interviene activamente en algún asunto
    represaliado víctima de represalias
I’m constantly hunting for words. I would describe the process like this: every day I go into the woods carrying a basket. I find words all around: on the trees, in the bushes, on the ground (in reality: on the street, during conversations, while I read). I gather as many as possible. -Jhumpa Lahiri

Linguaphile
Posts:5320
Joined:2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Linguaphile's 2023 Estonian and Spanish reading log

Postby Linguaphile » 2023-08-03, 13:29

(et) Kristi Ilvese Minu Mulgimaa
lk 204-216 ("Mulk — see ihne, uhke ja iseteadlik")
    majandusuperpallid economic somersaults
    pealehakkamine alustamine, hakkamine; ettevõtlikkus
    priiskama raiskama, pillama, laialt elama
    sark puusärk

    oben (obese, obest) (et) hobune
    masme (massa, massa) (et) maksma
    säänte (sääntse, sääntest) (et) selline
    ubin (ubine, ubint) (et) õun
    õkva (et) otse

    ütenkuun jõvvame kaugembele
    (et) üheskoos jõuame kaugemale
    (en) together we go further / together we achieve more


I’m constantly hunting for words. I would describe the process like this: every day I go into the woods carrying a basket. I find words all around: on the trees, in the bushes, on the ground (in reality: on the street, during conversations, while I read). I gather as many as possible. -Jhumpa Lahiri

Linguaphile
Posts:5320
Joined:2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Linguaphile's 2023 Estonian and Spanish reading log

Postby Linguaphile » 2023-08-07, 6:24

(et) Kristi Ilvese Minu Mulgimaa
lk 217-225 ("Kuidas ma üleöö kuulsaks sain")
lk 226-232 ("Elukunstnik Kalle")
    hingehoidja kristlike põhimõtete ja hoolekandeoskustega inimene, kes pakub kriisis olevale või surevale patsiendile moraalset tuge
    kogemusnõustaja eriettevalmistusega isik, kes annab toimetuleku nõu psühholoogilises kriisis inimestele, lähtudes oma kogemusest
    kupatus asjade, inimeste, olukordade kogum koos kõige juurdekuuluvaga
    meheleminekuiga abiellumiseks sobiv vanus; abiellumise iga
    pankrannik kõrge järsk kallas, kus paljanduvad paekivikihid
    süümepiin suur hingeline kannatus omaenese (halbade) tegude ja teistele põhjustatad kahju pärast, südametunnistuse piin
    vanarauaärimees vanametalli ja metallijäätmete müüja

    Lugu purgis, istub telemees autosse ja kaob talveöhe.
    With his story wrapped up, the reporter gets in the car and disappears into the winter night.
I’m constantly hunting for words. I would describe the process like this: every day I go into the woods carrying a basket. I find words all around: on the trees, in the bushes, on the ground (in reality: on the street, during conversations, while I read). I gather as many as possible. -Jhumpa Lahiri

Linguaphile
Posts:5320
Joined:2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Linguaphile's 2023 Estonian and Spanish reading log

Postby Linguaphile » 2023-08-14, 2:32

(et) Kristi Ilvese Minu Mulgimaa
Raamatu viimastest peatükkidest (lk 233+)
    alltöövõtja peaettevõtjale lepingu järgi ettevõtja
    kui tina tuhka kaduma äkki jäljetult kaduma
    Liiva-Annus isikustatud surma nimesid
    morjendama mingeid tundeid tekitama, kellelegi korda minema, kedagi puudutama
    poolmuidu väga odavalt, tühise tasu eest
    putitama nokitsedes midagi remontima, töökorda seadma
    põlvkondadevaheline põlvkondade vahel ilmnev (põlvkondadevaheliseks lõheks)
    põske pistma ära sööma
    rehnut rehkendus, arvestus, (rahaline) vahekord
    südikus vastasele vapper vastu hakkamine, mitte hõlpsalt alla andmine
    tõtlik kiirustav, kiirustades toimuv või kulgev (tõtlikul sammul)
    tähenärimine korrektuuri tegemine (tähenärija pedant; bürokraat)
    tööstaaž töötamise aeg ühes asutuses, mingil alal või üldse

    äitsneme õitsema (äitsnep õitseb)
I’m constantly hunting for words. I would describe the process like this: every day I go into the woods carrying a basket. I find words all around: on the trees, in the bushes, on the ground (in reality: on the street, during conversations, while I read). I gather as many as possible. -Jhumpa Lahiri

Linguaphile
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Re: Linguaphile's 2023 Estonian and Spanish reading log

Postby Linguaphile » 2023-08-21, 2:59

(es) El siglo soviético por Karl Schlögel, pp. 474-508
Voy a poner aquí un poco de contexto (la frase en la que encontré la palabra) al lado de la definición para ayudarme a recordar mejor las palabras y su uso.
    arenga discurso solemne y de tono elevado pronunciado ante una multitud con el fin de enardecer los ánimos (las arengas y los hurras de los soldados en la plaza)
    azuzar irritar, estimular, incitar (azuzar el miedo)
    mandamás persona que desempeña funciones de mando o que posee la máxima autoridad (las autoridades y los mandamases locales)
    octavilla octava parte de un pliego de papel; impreso de propaganda, generalmente política, de pequeño tamaño (Un avión de madera y lona se alza sobre la plaza y lanza octavillas.)
    ralo con componentes, partes o elementos más separados de lo normal (bosques ralos)
I’m constantly hunting for words. I would describe the process like this: every day I go into the woods carrying a basket. I find words all around: on the trees, in the bushes, on the ground (in reality: on the street, during conversations, while I read). I gather as many as possible. -Jhumpa Lahiri

Linguaphile
Posts:5320
Joined:2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Linguaphile's 2023 Estonian and Spanish reading log

Postby Linguaphile » 2023-08-31, 20:58

(et) Rutt Hinrikuse Eesti elulookirjandus
    kutistama kõditama
    paberinirk Koidula hüüdnimi (inglise keeles scribble weasel)
    pilkamisi pilgates
    õile õis (õilmed õied)
    umbkiri (hrv, peamiselt Kreutzwaldi kirjatöödes) vanapaber
(es) La cultura del odio por Talia Lavin
    a bombo y platillo con mucha publicidad
    a raudales en abundancia
    empinar el codo beber mucho; consumir demasiada cantidad de bebidas alcohólicas
(es) Terminé de leer el libro Minu Mulgimaa hace un rato. Sigo leyendo tres libros (El siglo sovíético por Karl Schlögel, La cultura del odio por Talia Lavin y Eesti elulookirjandus por Rutt Hindrikus) cuando puedo, pero últimamente no he tenido mucho tiempo para leer y por eso tampoco he aprendido muchas palabras.

(et) Loen veel kolm raamatut (Karl Schlögeli El siglo sovíético, Talia Lavini La cultura del odio ja Rutt Hinrikuse Eesti elulookirjandus), niipalju kui ma aega saan, aga viimasel ajal mul pole lugemiseks eriti aega olnud ja seega pole ka palju sõnu õppinud.

(vro) Maq loe viil kolm raamatut (Karl Schlögeli El siglo sovíético, Talia Lavini La cultura del odio ja Rutt Hinrikuse Eesti eloluukirändüs), niipalľo ku maq aigo saa, aq viimätsel aol mul lugõmisõs palľo aigo es olõq ja tuuperäst olõ-õs pall'o sõnno oṕnuq.
I’m constantly hunting for words. I would describe the process like this: every day I go into the woods carrying a basket. I find words all around: on the trees, in the bushes, on the ground (in reality: on the street, during conversations, while I read). I gather as many as possible. -Jhumpa Lahiri

Linguaphile
Posts:5320
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Re: Linguaphile's 2023 Estonian and Spanish reading log

Postby Linguaphile » 2023-09-13, 13:30

(es) Durante las últimas dos semanas he leído principalmente en español, pero sigo sin tener mucho tiempo para la lectura. Aun así, terminé de leer el libro de Talia Lavin y leí un poco más de El siglo sovíético.
I’m constantly hunting for words. I would describe the process like this: every day I go into the woods carrying a basket. I find words all around: on the trees, in the bushes, on the ground (in reality: on the street, during conversations, while I read). I gather as many as possible. -Jhumpa Lahiri

Linguaphile
Posts:5320
Joined:2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Linguaphile's 2023 Estonian and Spanish reading log

Postby Linguaphile » 2023-10-28, 23:16

(et) Tuuli Jõesaare Meie vana maja (lk.69-85)

Vaatasin mõtete setitamiseks kinnisvaraportaalist kuulutusi.
look-PAST-1S thought-PL-GEN settle-CAUS-INF-TRANS fixed.property.portal-ABL ad-PART-PL
In order to make up my mind, I looked at ads on the real estate portal.

Lisaks on hajaasutusprograami kaudu võimalik saada toetust veevarustuse, reoveesüsteemi, juurdepääsutee ja autonoomse elektrisüsteemi rajamiseks.
addition-TRANS be-1s scattered.settlement.program-GEN.SING through possible receive-INF2 support-PART.SING water.supply-GEN.SING waste.water.system-GEN.SING root-ILL2-access-road-GEN.SING and autonomy-ADJ.GEN.SING electric.system-GEN.SING construct-GERUND-TRANS
Additionally, it's also possible to receive support for the construction of a water supply, a sewage system, an access road and an autonomous electrical system through the rural settlement program.

Kommunikatsioonimeeskonda pole selle lehekülje tekstide kallale küll lastud.
communication-GEN-man.unit-PART-SING NEG-be-1S this-GEN.SING page.side-GEN.SING text-GEN.PL shore-ALL-SING indeed let-PAST.PARTICIP
They certainly hadn't let the editorial team descend on this page's text.

äran'd = ära nüüd; äran'd häldada don't complain [now]

automaatseadistatavad able to be automatically configured (nominative plural)
Last edited by Linguaphile on 2023-11-10, 15:35, edited 1 time in total.
I’m constantly hunting for words. I would describe the process like this: every day I go into the woods carrying a basket. I find words all around: on the trees, in the bushes, on the ground (in reality: on the street, during conversations, while I read). I gather as many as possible. -Jhumpa Lahiri

Linguaphile
Posts:5320
Joined:2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Linguaphile's 2023 Estonian and Spanish reading log

Postby Linguaphile » 2023-11-03, 23:43

(et) Tuuli Jõesaare Meie vana maja (lk.86-105)

jalgu seinale lööma logelema või laisklema hakkama

Kui ehitajaga käed löödud, otsustasin mõneks ajaks jalad seinale lüüa ja suve nautida.
when builder-COM.SING hand-NOM.PL hit-PAST.PARTICIP decide-PAST-1s some-TRANS time-TRANS foot/leg-NOM-PL wall-ALL hit-INF2 and summer-PART-SING enjoy-INF2
When the agreement with the builder was finalized, I decided to put my feet up for a while and enjoy the summer.
I’m constantly hunting for words. I would describe the process like this: every day I go into the woods carrying a basket. I find words all around: on the trees, in the bushes, on the ground (in reality: on the street, during conversations, while I read). I gather as many as possible. -Jhumpa Lahiri

Linguaphile
Posts:5320
Joined:2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Linguaphile's 2023 Estonian and Spanish reading log

Postby Linguaphile » 2023-11-10, 15:35

(et) Tuuli Jõesaare Meie vana maja (lk.106-120)

    enesetunne inimese tervisest ja meeleolust sõltuv üldine kehaline ja vaimne seisund antud momendil (a person's general physical and mental state at a given moment, based on their health and mental well-being)
      kehva enesetundega olema to feel off-color
      kaebas, et enesetunne on niru complained that she doesn't feel well
        niru näru, vilets, kehv, halb (poor, bad)
    kindlustusjuhtum kindlustuslepingus nimetatud sündmus, mille puhul kindlustusorganisatsioon on kohustatud maksma kindlustajale kindlustushüvitist või teatud kindlustussumma (insured event)

    staabeldama palgist lõigatud laudu korrapäraselt virna panema, et need kõveraks ei kuivaks; laudade ladustama nii, et iga lauakihi vahel on õhuvahetuse tagamiseks distantsliistud (to stack boards in such a way that they will not warp as they dry)

    Ma korra mõtlen. Kaua mul aega otsustamiseks on?
    1s-NOM-SING time-GEN-SING think-1s-PRES long 1s-ADE-SING time-PART-SING decide-GER-TRANS be-3s-SING
    Let me think a moment. How long do I have to decide?
I’m constantly hunting for words. I would describe the process like this: every day I go into the woods carrying a basket. I find words all around: on the trees, in the bushes, on the ground (in reality: on the street, during conversations, while I read). I gather as many as possible. -Jhumpa Lahiri

Linguaphile
Posts:5320
Joined:2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Linguaphile's 2023 Estonian and Spanish reading log

Postby Linguaphile » 2023-11-19, 17:55

(et) Margit Prantsuse Minu Iisrael (lk. 10-34)
    hingamispäev Sabbath
    kümme käsku Ten Commandments (kümmes käsus in the Ten Commandments)
    ligimene (= kaasinimene) fellow man
    vaatamisväärsused sights; vaatamisväärsustega tutvumine sightseeing
I’m constantly hunting for words. I would describe the process like this: every day I go into the woods carrying a basket. I find words all around: on the trees, in the bushes, on the ground (in reality: on the street, during conversations, while I read). I gather as many as possible. -Jhumpa Lahiri


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