FUBAR Game 2018

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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby księżycowy » 2019-01-08, 0:11

Eh, this game is FUBAR for a reason. :P

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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby voron » 2019-01-08, 0:21

vijayjohn wrote:Well, IIRC it's the same deal there: you have to use the conditional form in the then-clause, and the conditional form is obiecałbyś, but you can't use that after czy, so it becomes czy obiecałeś instead.

EDIT: Or am I totally wrong about that?

I am not sure about Polish, but in Russian, you surely can use both the question particle ли, and the conditional particle бы:
Обещал ли бы ты?

And in Serbian, too:
Da li bi obećao?
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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-01-08, 0:24

I tried doing a Google search for czy obiecałbyś in quotes and only got three results that look more or less identical and don't seem to involve an if-then construction, and Google suggests I mean czy obiecałeś. Maybe that just threw me off?

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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby dEhiN » 2019-01-08, 0:27

Ser wrote:From viewtopic.php?f=117&t=56159&start=160#p1128595 :
dEhiN wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:I understand that; like I said, I don't think the text translates into Tamil very well to begin with for the purposes of a game like this, so the Tamil in my translation is probably pretty weird since I was trying not to paraphrase things.

Any word on FUBAR by the way? Did OB ever reply to you? Did you tell Ser to translate to English instead of Mandarin?

Oh shoot, I completely forgot about FUBAR! I'll message Ser now.

I noticed you sent me no message about this. :bummer: :hmpf:

I'm so sorry Ser; I got distracted and then forgot to send the PM until I was falling asleep! :oops:

Give me a few days and I'll compile all the translations and post them. On a personal note, I really shouldn't have suggested Tamil to/from anything for the BTG game. I would've been better off using Tamil for FUBAR!
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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby księżycowy » 2019-01-08, 0:32

Vijay wrote:I tried doing a Google search for czy obiecałbyś in quotes and only got three results that look more or less identical and don't seem to involve an if-then construction, and Google suggests I mean czy obiecałeś. Maybe that just threw me off?


I'm no native speaker, but my guess is that would indeed use by in some way (which is not always attached to the verb, by the way).I think you needed to start the sentence off differently too.

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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-01-08, 1:47

Oh, OK. Should it perhaps have been jeśli przyniosę ci Muła, czy obiecasz nie jeść mię?

EDIT: I don't think I was very careful about my Polish translation. I'm sure you can guess why. :lol:
dEhiN wrote:On a personal note, I really shouldn't have suggested Tamil to/from anything for the BTG game. I would've been better off using Tamil for FUBAR!

Then all the languages in the BTG would have been Indo-European.

I suggest we try doing FUBAR in the summer and keeping the BTG at the usual time each year. If we do them both at the same time, we'll have too many things all happening at the end of the year (when people are already likely to busy IRL anyway!).

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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby dEhiN » 2019-01-08, 5:57

Here's the original with all the translations:

English (Original):

One day, two friends, Mr. Fox and Mr. Ass, decided to go hunting together out into the forest. They had not proceeded far when they saw Ms. Lioness in the distance. She looked very hungry, so Fox snuck away and quietly approached her. He said to her, "If I capture Ass for you, will you promise not to eat me?" She agreed, and so he went back to Ass. He said to Ass, “let’s go this way, it’s a shortcut” and he led Ass to a deep pit, which he had prepared, causing him to fall into it. Upon seeing that Ass was secured, Lioness jumped on Fox and gobbled him up knowing that she could come back to Ass whenever she wanted.

Spanish:

Un día, dos amigos, Sr. Zorro y Sr. Burro, decidieron ir a la caza juntos en el bosque. No habían proseguido lejos cuando vieron a Sra. Leona en la distancia. Ella parecía estar muy hambrientada, así el Zorro se escabulló y se dirigió silenciosamente a ella. Le dijo a ella: "Si capturo Burro para tí, ¿me prometerás de no comerme? Ella estaba de acuerdo y entonces él volvió a Burro. Le dijo a Burro: "Vamos a irnos por aquí, es un atajo." y dirigió Burro a un agujero profundo, que había preparado, provocándole a caerse dentro. Cuando veía que Burro estaba seguro, Leona saltó sobre Zorro y le devoró sabiendo que ella podría regresar a Burro cuando quiera.

Indonesian:

Satu hari, dua teman, bapak Rubah dan bapak Bagal, memutuskan pergi berburu bersama di hutan.
Mereka tidak berjalan jauh ketika mereka melihat nyonya Singa di jarak.
Dia terlihat sangat lapar, begitu Rubah menyelinap dan mendekatinya dengan diam.
Dia mengatakannya: jika menangkap Bagal bagimu, apa kamu akan berjanji tidak memakanku?
Dia setuju dan kemudian dia kembali ke Bagal.
Dia mengatakan kepada Bagal: "Kita akan pergi ke sini, itu jalan pendek" dan memimpin Bagal ke lubang mendalam yang dia sudah mempersiapkan, sehingga dia jatuh di dalam.
Ketika melihat bahwa Bagal sudah bisa melarikan diri, Singa melompat di atas Rubah dan menelannya
karena dia tahu bahwa dia bisa kembali ke Bagal ketika dia mau.

Polish:

Pewnego dnia, dwóch przyjaciół, pan Lis i pan Muł, zdecydowali iść na polowanie razem w lesie.
Nie podróżowały daleko kiedy widzieli panią Lwica w oddali.
Wyglądała bardzo głodną, więc Lis się skradał i zbliżał się cicho.
On pytał ją: jeśli przyniosę ci Muła, czy obiecałeś nie jeść mię?
Ona się zgodziła, a potem on się wrócił do Muła.
Powiedział Mułowi: "Pójdziemy tutaj, to jest krótka droga" i wiódł Muła na głęboką studnię, którą już kopał, aby on spadł wewnątrz.
Kiedy widziała, że Muł się już udał uciekać, Lwica skoczyła na Lisa i pożarła go, bo wiedziała, że mogła wrócić do Muła, kiedy chciała.

Old English:

An dogor twegen friend Fox ond Mul gecuron to huntienne togædere þa wuda in. Ne foren hie feorr þa geseoþ Leon feorran. Heo ætiewde swiþe hungrig swa Fox snac ond nealæhte stillnis mid. He fragn hie gif ic bringe Mul behete þu ne to etenne me. Heo geþwærede ond siðra he gehwirfde Mule mid. He cwæþ Mule to wit folgiaþ her biþ we sceort ond he lædde Mul wielle deopum to hwilc he dealf ær þæt he feolle innan. Swa hie geseoþ ðæt Mul licette to lsienne swa hie hleop foxe on ond forswealg hine for þæm þe hie cneow þæt hie gehwirfde Mul to hwænne hie wolde.

Latin:

Quondam duo amici vulpes mulusque una in silvam venari elegerunt. Non ierunt longe cum leam recedere vident. Ea ieiuna visa vulpes serpsit et silenter appropinquavit. Rogavit eam si mulum feram promittasne ne edas me. Consensit ea et postea ille cum mulo convertit. Dixit mulo sequimur hic breves sumus et duxit mulum ad puteum altum quem fodit donec incidit. Illa mulum effugere simulare videns ad vulpem cucurrit et eum devoravit quod ipsam ad mulum convertere cognovit quandocumque voluit.

English (Final):

One day, two friends, a fox and a mule, decided to go hunting together in the forest. They hadn't gone far when they saw a lioness retreat. She looked hungry, and so the fox crawled and silently approached her. The fox then asked her, "if I brought you the mule, would you promise not to eat me?" She agreed, and so the fox went back to the mule. He then told the mule, "let's follow this way, we're close", and he led the mule to a deep well he had dug, and so the mule fell in. Then the lioness, pretending to go after the mule, runs to the fox and eats him, as she knew that she could go back for the mule whenever she wanted.

Seneca:

Da:h ne:' dih neh ëgátšonyá:nö:'. Ne:' neh honöde:o' neh nö́'gwatgwa:h, koh neh dewaöhde:s. Gahadagö:'h ë:yadowä:ta' do:gë:h wa:yádi:wís'a:'.
O'ga:kda't de'we:ëh. Da:h sí:gwa:h ga:ösyohje:ta' wa:di:gë'.
Godö́swe'da:nih a:yë:', da:h nö́'gwatgwa:h deyont'yus gwi nes, koh tiyoje:ëh, wa:diyá'do:es.
Ne:' neh waë': Jë:gwah shö:h dwagyö́'doh dewaöhde:s, hëwihsá'öh de'öhse:k?
Ga:ösyohje:ta' yaogayëh. Nö'gë:' nö́'gwatgwa:h sá:hdë:di' dewaöhde:sgé:gwa:h.
Da:h waë' dewaöhde:sgé:gwa:h: "Ëya:kne' nekoh, o:ade' niwák'a:h." Ne:' neh nö́'gwatgwa:h shagóawi' dewaöhde:s oya:de'de:sgwah. Nö́'gwatgwa:h wa'ö́des'a:', da:h o:nëh dewaöhde:s wá'dwá'së't. Tšiwa'e:gë' dewaöhde:s wá:de'go', ga:ösyohje:ta' o'jenö'sgö:di' nö́'gwatgwa:'geh, wa'ö́:nën koh. Tá:ga'ë:yö:' së'ëh tšidesádë:dzo:nih ogwe:nyöh dëje:yö:'nih dewaöhde:s.
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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-01-08, 7:00

Thanks! However, the last one is in Seneca, not in Cayuga, because I didn't really have access to a dictionary for Cayuga and you let me switch to Seneca instead.

Here's all I actually got for Cayuga before y'all let me change the language :P

O:nęh degyátsiyáhshe, Ha'nih Héhshai: Ha'nih Dewahǫhdáhǫ' Gaǫ:danę́hgwih hniˀ odihwáęda's ha'gáę:' hęna:dó:wa:yé:na gahá:gǫ:. Tę' i:nǫh heho:dí:yǫ: nęh

EDIT: Also lol "if I capture Ass for you" :twisted:

EDIT2: Also also...y'all, we actually all did a great job translating once again! The final product isn't really FUBAR and is pretty close to the original, just with a few minor changes.

EDIT3: Crossed out "however" :P
Last edited by vijayjohn on 2019-01-13, 13:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby kevin » 2019-01-08, 10:06

Oh, was it supposed to read "wit folgiaþ her biþ weg sceort"? That explains at least one of singular/plural mismatches. Maybe next time we should be careful to avoid typos, in a FUBAR game they are probably even worse than in the normal BTG.

vijayjohn wrote:EDIT2: Also also...y'all, we actually all did a great job translating once again! The final product isn't really FUBAR and is pretty close to the original, just with a few minor changes.

Yeah, though Ser didn't actually translate very literally, but guessed what the original story could have been like. For example, in the version I got, the more likely interpretation was that the fox fell into the well.

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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby księżycowy » 2019-01-08, 10:20

All those "he"s.

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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby Ser » 2019-01-08, 17:04

kevin wrote:Oh, was it supposed to read "wit folgiaþ her biþ weg sceort"? That explains at least one of singular/plural mismatches. Maybe next time we should be careful to avoid typos, in a FUBAR game they are probably even worse than in the normal BTG.

vijayjohn wrote:EDIT2: Also also...y'all, we actually all did a great job translating once again! The final product isn't really FUBAR and is pretty close to the original, just with a few minor changes.

Yeah, though Ser didn't actually translate very literally, but guessed what the original story could have been like. For example, in the version I got, the more likely interpretation was that the fox fell into the well.

Incidit could have either the fox or the mule as its subject, and I figured the latter made more sense.

What was meant in Illa mulum effugere simulare videns, by the way? That would be literally "The lioness, seeing that the mule was pretending to escape...". Since that didn't make much sense to me, I ignored the grammatical endings and guessed what the relationship between the nouns and verbs was, assuming that you had used a wrong word regarding effugere. In hindsight, I should've probably left it as "seeing that the mule was pretending to escape" though, it wasn't that bad.

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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby kevin » 2019-01-08, 17:18

I don't know how it makes sense, but this is exactly what I read from the Old English. :noclue:

If Google translates the Polish correctly, it was "When she saw that Mule had managed to escape" there (which is already quite different from the original). But I don't think OE "licettan" could be translated as something like "manage", I can't find anything else than "pretend"/"fake" that could possibly make sense with an infinitive.
Last edited by kevin on 2019-01-08, 17:30, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby księżycowy » 2019-01-08, 17:30

If I translated the Polish correctly, it was at least as far back as that.

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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby kevin » 2019-01-08, 17:30

Maybe I should add my interpretation of the OE: Literally, I read "Swa hie geseoþ ðæt Mul licette to losienne" as "As they (masculine plural *cough*) sees (singular present) that Mule pretended (past) to [be lost/get lost/die/perish/destroy/escape]". None of them made a lot of sense, but I thought that maybe he pretended to have escaped while he was actually in the well or whatever. :D

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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby księżycowy » 2019-01-08, 17:34

"Hie" can be either plural (all genders) nom. or acc. or feminine singular acc.
Granted in that context I probably meant heo.

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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby kevin » 2019-01-08, 17:52

Yeah, true, but it had to be the subject here. At least you did this relatively consistently, so I decided to just read it as "heo" whenever that made more sense.

By the way, can someone who actually knows Latin tell me how "promise not to eat me" would best be translated? I really wanted to use an infinitive construction there, but I couldn't figure out how that works with the negation (if at all). Can I just insert "non" before the infinitive? "promittasne non me edere" or something?

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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby dEhiN » 2019-01-08, 18:33

vijayjohn wrote:Thanks! However, the last one is in Seneca, not in Cayuga, because I didn't really have access to a dictionary for Cayuga and you let me switch to Seneca instead.

Fixed.

EDIT: Also lol "if I capture Ass for you" :twisted:

Hehe...:D

EDIT2: Also also...y'all, we actually all did a great job translating once again! The final product isn't really FUBAR and is pretty close to the original, just with a few minor changes.

I intentionally chose what I thought would be a fairly simple text (I think it's an Aesop's Fable) because of the FUBAR possibility. I figured with a translation into an Austronesian, a NAIL (at the time when I chose the text) and two dead languages, the odds for FUBAR were already good without me using a complicated text.

księżycowy wrote:All those "he"s.

Yeah, I know....I actually changed Lion to Lioness so I could use some feminine pronouns. I also added the titles to each character, whereas the original I found online just had Fox, Ass, and Lion. I know that Car's translation keeps the titles. At what point do the titles get lost, in the Indonesian or Polish?

Also, I wonder how the idea of the mule escaping from the pit/well got in there. If it existed in the Polish, then either Vijay introduced it or it was introduced in the Indonesian. Because the Spanish maintains the idea of the mule being secure. I also wonder what would've happened if we had been able to use the Seneca instead of the Polish? Would that have introduced more differences in the final translation?
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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby Salajane » 2019-01-08, 18:54

I'm sorry. It was because of me. :oops:
I just didn't know how to translate it into Indonesian.
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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby księżycowy » 2019-01-08, 19:04

Don't worry, this game is FUBAR for a reason. :)

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Re: FUBAR Game 2018

Postby dEhiN » 2019-01-08, 19:08

Salajane wrote:I'm sorry. It was because of me. :oops:
I just didn't know how to translate it into Indonesian.

Yeah, as księżycowy said, don't worry about it. I was just asking out of curiosity. Unfortunately I don't know any Indonesian, but hopefully Vijay might have some suggestions on what he might have done as a translation, since he's been learning Indonesian for some time now.
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