Broken Translation Game 2018

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Re: Broken Translation Game 2018

Postby dEhiN » 2019-02-01, 20:44

linguoboy wrote:I think the time was plenty; if you're really actively working on one paragraph for five days in a row, you're overthinking it.

That was probably my mistake then - worrying too much about getting the perfect translation.
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Re: Broken Translation Game 2018

Postby księżycowy » 2019-02-01, 20:49

I was only actively working on my translation for about 3-4 days. I just had other stuff come up that postponed my working on it.

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Re: Broken Translation Game 2018

Postby linguoboy » 2019-02-01, 20:53

dEhiN wrote:
linguoboy wrote:I think the time was plenty; if you're really actively working on one paragraph for five days in a row, you're overthinking it.

That was probably my mistake then - worrying too much about getting the perfect translation.

Yeah, I'm always of two minds with these things. My overriding instinct is to "correct" the translation since I'm used to starting from imperfect texts and having to reconstruct what the author is trying to say in order to find the right words. But given that the whole premise of the game is centred around imperfect transmission, I strive to translate what's in front of me without being too editorial.

Of course, these goals are in tension because you always need information beyond what's solely found in a text in order to do a competent translation. And I'm very conscious of not producing "translatese" which is what happens when you try to be too literal. My goal is always for something to read as if it were originally composed in that language, even if I know that's impossible for any of non-native tongues.
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Re: Broken Translation Game 2018

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-02-02, 7:03

Can't wait for Ser to post those results!

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Re: Broken Translation Game 2018

Postby OldBoring » 2019-02-02, 9:07

This broken translation is FUBAR.
The FUBAR has been a broken translation.
The two should be reversed.

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Re: Broken Translation Game 2018

Postby księżycowy » 2019-02-03, 10:36

My pm to Ser is still sitting there, unread. I'm tempted to suggest that we just start posting our translations ourselves. Of course that provided that we all have them, and that Acceptance4All is still around and has the original text still.

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Re: Broken Translation Game 2018

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-02-03, 18:07

Well, I'm fairly certain at least that Ser is alive. :P Maybe he's just busy or something and we may need to wait yet again for a few more days or so.
OldBoring wrote:This broken translation is FUBAR.
The FUBAR has been a broken translation.
The two should be reversed.

We haven't actually seen the broken translation yet, though!

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Re: Broken Translation Game 2018

Postby księżycowy » 2019-02-03, 18:16

Maybe I'm just inpatient. :P

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Re: Broken Translation Game 2018

Postby linguoboy » 2019-02-03, 19:17

I'm willing to post my translation in the Celtic Languages forum while we wait.
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Re: Broken Translation Game 2018

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-02-03, 21:18

How would that work? Where on that forum would you post it? In the Irish study group? :hmm: I'm willing to post my translation into Tamil and/or even Luís's translation into Portuguese here if it helps. I have no idea where else I could post either of those, though...the Tamil study group is dead, and the Portuguese one still doesn't exist.

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Re: Broken Translation Game 2018

Postby dEhiN » 2019-02-04, 3:47

Well, why don't we give Ser like a week and if we don't hear from him, we go ahead and post our translations?
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Re: Broken Translation Game 2018

Postby Luís » 2019-02-04, 9:14

We already waited 3 months for the game to end. I'm sure we can wait a few more days...
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Re: Broken Translation Game 2018

Postby księżycowy » 2019-02-04, 9:31

I was going to say 3 days. :whistle:

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Re: Broken Translation Game 2018

Postby Car » 2019-02-04, 10:38

Luís wrote:We already waited 3 months for the game to end. I'm sure we can wait a few more days...

Seconded.
Please correct my mistakes!

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Re: Broken Translation Game 2018

Postby Ser » 2019-02-04, 23:06

Hi guys! I apologize for delaying posting the results so much. Here they are.

It appears that I never received linguoboy's translation. Linguoboy, if you could please post it, I'll add it to this post. [EDIT: text added.]

Original text

Mencius says human virtues are like sprouts, and that people improve as these become full plants in them. But I wonder whether there is anything we can do to encourage the sprouts to grow in ourselves and others. Do our gardens of virtue develop in a wild manner following the events of our lives, or are we gardeners that can decide where to plant the seeds, how much water to give them, what soil to use? If the watermelon grows first and fast, then the basil needs to grow around it. If the tomatoes get tall and cover the sun the eggplant would receive, then the eggplant grows differently. Perhaps the sprouts grow under random influences only, but perhaps they don't.

Acceptance4All:)
English -> French

Mencius a dit que les vertus humaines se semblent comme les pousses et que les personnes améliorent pendant que celles-ci deviennent complètes dedans eux. Mais je me demande s'il y en a quelque chose que nous pouvons faire pour encourager ces germes à pousser dedans nous-mêmes et les autres. Est-ce que nos jardins de vertus développent dans une manière sauvage en suivant les évènements de nos vies, où est-ce que nous les jardiniers qui peuvent décider où planter les graines, combien de l’eau à les donner, quel type de la terre pour utiliser ? Si la pastèque pousse premièrement et rapidement, puis le basilic faut grandir autour d’elle. Si les tomates deviennent grandes et couvrent le soleil que l’aubergine recevrait, puis l’aubergine pousse différemment. Peut-être les germes poussent en dessous seulement des influences au hasard, mais peut-être non.

Luís
French -> Portuguese

Mêncio disse que as virtudes humanas se parecem com os rebentos e que as pessoas ficam melhores à medida que se tornam completas por dentro. Mas pergunto-me se há alguma coisa que possamos fazer para encorajar estes gérmenes a brotar dentro de nós mesmos e dos outros. Será que os nossos jardins de virtudes se desenvolvem de uma maneira selvagem seguindo os acontecimentos das nossas vidas ou seremos nós, os jardineiros, quem pode decidir onde plantar os grãos, quanta água lhes fornecer, o tipo de terra a utilizar? Se a melancia cresce rapidamente e em primeiro lugar, em seguida o manjericão vê-se forçado a germinar à sua volta. Se os tomates ficam demasiado grandes e cobrem todo o sol que a beringela deveria receber, esta vai crescer de maneira diferente. Talvez os gérmenes cresçam apenas sob a influência do acaso, ou talvez não.

vijayjohn
Portuguese -> Tamil

மனித அறங்கள் மொட்டுகளைப்போல் இருக்கும் என்றும் மனிதர்கள் அகத்து பூரணமாகவே குணத்துக்குவருகிறீர்கள் என்றும் மென்சியசு சொன்னார். ஆனால் நாம் இந்த கருக்களை நம்ம சொந்த உள்ளிலும் மற்றுள்ளவரின் உள்ளிலும் தழைப்பிக்க வேண்டி ஏதோ செய்ய முடியுமா என்று நான் நினைக்கிறேன். நம்ம அறங்களின் தோட்டங்கள் நம்ம உயிருகளின் செய்திகள் அளவாக ஒழுங்கில்லாமல் மனுவாகிறார்கள் என்று அப்படியா, அல்லது தோட்டக்காராக எங்களுக்கு தானியங்கள் எங்கே நடுப்போட வேண்டும், அவைக்குவேண்டி எவ்வளவு தண்ணீர் கொடுக்க வேண்டும், எது தரம் மண் உபயோகிக்க வேண்டும் எல்லாம் தீர்மானிக்க முடியும் என்று அப்படியா? கொம்மட்டி சீக்கிரமாயும் முதலிலும் வளர்த்து வந்தால் கரந்தையோ, அதுபோல் உடனே இலிர வேண்டியதாய் போய்விடும். தக்காளிகள் பெருந்து முதிர்ந்து கத்தரிக்கு அங்கீகரிக்க வேண்டிய கதிரொளி மூடியால் அந்த கத்தரி வேறே விதத்தில் வளரும். ஒருவேளை கருக்கள் தற்செயலின் இயற்கையில் வளரலாம், ஒருவேளை இல்லை.

dEhiN
Tamil -> Spanish

Mencius dijo que la ética humana es como los capullos y que las personas alcanzan la curación desde dentro. Pero me pregunto si podemos hacer algo para crecer estos temas en nosotros mismos y en los otros. Ya sea que los jardines de nuestra ética no sean tan organizados como los comportamientos de nuestras vidas, o sea que como los jardineros, ¿dónde necesitamos de plantar los granos, cuánto agua les damos y cuál calidad de tierra usamos? Para que el melón se desarrolle primero y rápidamente, tendrá que brotar inmediatamente. La berenjena crecerá de manera diferente si los tomates crecen grande y bloquean la luz solar que necesita. Quizás estos temas crecerán naturalmente, quizás no.

Car
Spanish -> Italian

Mencius ha detto che l'etica umana è come le gemme e che le persone accedono la guarigione dal di dentro. Ma mi chiedo se possiamo fare qualcosa per crescere queste teme dentro di noi stessi e dentro degli altri. Che siano i giardini della nostra etica no siano tanti organizzati come il comportamento delle nostre vite, o siano come i giardinieri. Dove abbiamo bisogno di piantare i grani, quant'acqua loro diamo e che qualità della terra usiamo? Affinché il melone si sviluppi per primo e velocemente, dovrà germinare subito. La melanzana crescerà in altri modi se i pomodori crescono grande e bloccano la luce solare che bisogna. Forse queste teme cresceranno naturalmente, forse no.

linguoboy
Italian -> Irish

Dúirt Meincias go bhfuil eitic dhaonna mar sheoda agus go ngéilleann na daoine don chneasú ón taobh istigh. Ach is ionadh liom má fhéadaimíd rud éigin a dhéanamh chun na hábhair seo a dh'fhás istigh ionainn féin is istigh i ndaoine eile. Cé acu atánn nó ná fuileann garraithe ár n-eitice chomh curtha in eagar le h-iompar ár saolta, nó lesna garraíodóiríbh. Cár gá dhúinn na gráinne a chur, cad é mhéid uisce a chuirimíd dóibh is cad é an saghas ithreach go ndéanaimíd úsáid di? Caithfidh mealbhacán a ghiniúint ar an bpointe boise chun forbairt ar dtúis is go tapaidh. Fásfaidh an t-ubhthoradh ar a mhalairt de chuma má fhásann dosna trátaí airde i dtreo go gcoscaid siad solas an ghréine go bhfuil gá leis aige. B’fhéidir go bhfásfadh na hábhair seo go nádúrtha, b’fhéidir ná ndéanfaidís.

kevin
Irish -> German

Menzius sagte, dass menschliche Ethik wie Juwelen sei und dass die Leute sich einer Heilung von innen heraus hingäben. Aber ich wäre überrascht, wenn wir etwas machen könnten, um diese Veranlagungen in uns selbst und in anderen wachsen zu lassen. Ob die Gärten unserer Ethik so geordnet sind oder nicht wie die Verhaltensweise unserer Lebenswelt, oder wie die Gärtner. Wo müssen wir die Samen säen, wieviel Wasser geben wir ihnen und welche Art von Erde verwenden wir? Eine Melone muss sofort keimen, um sich am Anfang schnell zu entwickeln. Die Aubergine wird auf die entgegengesetzte Weise wachsen, wenn sie zu den Tomaten in die Höhe wächst bis diese das Sonnenlicht, das sie braucht, abschirmen. Vielleicht würden diese Veranlagungen auf natürliche Weise wachsen, vielleicht würden sie es nicht.

księżycowy
German -> English

Mencius said that human ethics are like jewels and that people devote themselves to healing from the inside out. But I was surprised; if we could make something about these natures in ourselves and in others to allow us to grow. If the garden of our ethics is so well ordered or, not like the behavior of our environment, is like the gardener. Where we need to sow seeds, how much water do we provide to them and what sort of soil do we use? A melon has to immediately sprout to develop quickly around itself at the beginning. The eggplant grows the opposite way if the sunlight, which it needs, is blocked by the height of the tomato. Maybe these predispositions of the natural way will grow, maybe they will not.
Last edited by Ser on 2019-02-05, 11:52, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Broken Translation Game 2018

Postby Luís » 2019-02-05, 9:31

Not that bad, actually... :P
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Re: Broken Translation Game 2018

Postby kevin » 2019-02-05, 9:37

This was the Irish translation:

Dúirt Meincias go bhfuil eitic dhaonna mar sheoda agus go ngéilleann na daoine don chneasú ón taobh istigh. Ach is ionadh liom má fhéadaimíd rud éigin a dhéanamh chun na hábhair seo a dh'fhás istigh ionainn féin is istigh i ndaoine eile. Cé acu atánn nó ná fuileann garraithe ár n-eitice chomh curtha in eagar le h-iompar ár saolta, nó lesna garraíodóiríbh. Cár gá dhúinn na gráinne a chur, cad é mhéid uisce a chuirimíd dóibh is cad é an saghas ithreach go ndéanaimíd úsáid di? Caithfidh mealbhacán a ghiniúint ar an bpointe boise chun forbairt ar dtúis is go tapaidh. Fásfaidh an t-ubhthoradh ar a mhalairt de chuma má fhásann dosna trátaí airde i dtreo go gcoscaid siad solas an ghréine go bhfuil gá leis aige. B’fhéidir go bhfásfadh na hábhair seo go nádúrtha, b’fhéidir ná ndéanfaidís.


I'm glad to see that the text was already pretty broken in Italian and the hardest parts of the Irish text weren't even supposed to make sense, so it's not all my fault at least. ;)

The sprouts seem to have become jewels in Irish (at least Italian "gemme" still seems to have a meaning related to plants, but I couldn't find any for "seoda" even now). I wonder what happened to the basil, it seems it has disappeared on its way through Tamil.

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Re: Broken Translation Game 2018

Postby księżycowy » 2019-02-05, 12:27

Did I do an ok job on my German -> English translation?

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Re: Broken Translation Game 2018

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-02-05, 13:34

kevin wrote:I wonder what happened to the basil, it seems it has disappeared on its way through Tamil.

Yes, I was thrown off by the Portuguese translation at several points because it uses certain expressions that are pretty common in European languages (including English) but not so much elsewhere, and I falsely guessed that these existed in the original English text and tried to help keep them even though it would make the Tamil text sound pretty bizarre. This was probably the part that I was most worried would get lost in the translation.

I interpreted the Portuguese part about the basil to say: "If the melon grows quickly and first, the basil immediately finds itself forced to sprout in its turn." In a Dravidian language, no one would ever formulate a sentence like this. They'd say something more like "for instance, let's say a watermelon ends up growing quickly. Let's say it also ends up growing before the other plants! Then what will happen to the basil? There is no other way out except for it to sprout, too."

On the one hand, if I translated it like that, the translation would have become even more broken; on the other, I really couldn't tell how on Earth I could preserve 'in its turn'. So what I did was to translate it more or less as follows: "If the watermelon ends up growing quickly and first, as for the basil (கரந்தையோ), it will similarly have to sprout immediately." (கரந்தையோ is pronounced something like [kaɾan̪d̪ajˈjoː]).

கரந்தை ([kaˈɾan̪d̪aj]?) means 'basil', and -யோ [joː] is normally an interrogative suffix of some sort, I think (in Malayalam, it is the only one we have), but it can also be used to emphasize an argument in a sentence (not sure whether this would be topicalization or focus), which is why I picked it. Of course, there was no way for dEhiN to actually know any of this, and the translation was already difficult and convoluted enough as it was, so understandably, he just ignored it.

Where does the text originally come from, by the way?

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Re: Broken Translation Game 2018

Postby Luís » 2019-02-05, 14:45

Btw, à sua volta doesn't mean in its turn but rather around it.
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