Broken Translation Game 2017

[księżycowy]

So, some weird ass language that noöne else can translate from?

[vijayjohn]

Yes, like Malayalam!

Seriously, though, if Elaine really is only willing to translate between English and Turkish, then it probably makes more sense IMO to put him either at the beginning or at the end of the chain instead of somewhere in the middle. Maybe we could do this:

English -> Turkish (Elaine) -> Russian (voron) -> Spanish (me) -> French (dEhiN) -> German (Car) -> Irish (kevin) -> English (księżycowy)

[księżycowy]

I was thinking Arrernte, so I can translate it into English.

[vijayjohn]

Okay, I don't know a word of Arrernte yet, sorry! I see why I need to actually list language pairs now!

[księżycowy]

Oh come on. You know some of every language that exists!

[vijayjohn]

Not Sentinelese or else I'd be dead by now!

[księżycowy]

I guess i can let that one slide.

[Multiturquoise]

Yes, like Malayalam!

Seriously, though, if Elaine really is only willing to translate between English and Turkish, then it probably makes more sense IMO to put him either at the beginning or at the end of the chain instead of somewhere in the middle. Maybe we could do this:

English -> Turkish (Elaine) -> Russian (voron) -> Spanish (me) -> French (dEhiN) -> German (Car) -> Irish (kevin) -> English (księżycowy)

The beginning is better for me than the end.

[dEhiN]

So then Luís doesn't do a translation? Also the previous game had like 3 or 4 English translations in it. Though I guess we don't really need that many; literally just 2 - one at the beginning and one at the end. However, it'd be nice if we could add a few more non-IE languages: Turkish is the only one, even though iirc Arabic (from), Hebrew (to/from), and Japanese (from) were also listed. Perhaps we could get Karavinka in on this to translate into Japanese?

[vijayjohn]

So then Luís doesn't do a translation?

I'm guessing not because he never proposed doing one himself. (I figure he's too busy moderating the game and adding all our languages to the language list ).

Also the previous game had like 3 or 4 English translations in it. Though I guess we don't really need that many; literally just 2 - one at the beginning and one at the end.

Or rather just one at the end, since the original text is in English.

IMO translating it into English in the middle like that is boring and so easy that it's kind of unfair to the other participants. (I think it's fair to say that (for the purposes of this game) anybody participating in this game can just translate from another language they know into English; if they didn't know English, they wouldn't have been able to read this entire thread in the first place! By contrast, very few can translate stuff into probably any other language).

The way I saw it being done on another forum was as follows: Each person translates the text they're given (into their chosen target language, e.g. in the scenario I drew out, you'd translate it into French) and sends their translation to the next person, but also sends it to the person moderating the game with a translation into English (but of course, the translation into English is only sent to the moderator!). In the end, the moderator posts all of these texts: both the translations and the English version of each translation. That way, it's easier to see (and discuss, if you like) what happened in the end.

It's slightly more complicated but makes the end result a little less of a mystery. I'm not trying to force another forum's approach on this one, though, just putting it out there in case y'all would prefer that.

However, it'd be nice if we could add a few more non-IE languages: Turkish is the only one, even though iirc Arabic (from), Hebrew (to/from), and Japanese (from) were also listed. Perhaps we could get Karavinka in on this to translate into Japanese?

Then we'd need more people who can translate to a non-IE language.

Btw, Luís has kind of said this already, but since I've played this game before and I'm not sure how many of the rest of you have, I'm going to attempt to address a concern that's been raised a few times in this thread: The reason why translations get mangled has far less to do with lack of fluency than it does with ambiguity. Words are ambiguous in any language, and one paragraph only gives you so much context to figure out what the intended meaning of the passage is. Remember also that all you get to see is the last person's translation (unless of course you're the first translator in the chain). The fun part is you have no way of knowing yet how everybody before you might have mangled their own translations! So in a way, the challenge is not only to translate a text (which you have a good chance of doing well) but also to attempt to make sense of it and figure out what the original text was trying to say (which you probably will NOT succeed in doing).

[dEhiN]

Huh! Never thought about that.

[Luís]

Luís, when we PM you our translations, do we each need to include a translation of our translation into English as well?

We haven't done like that as far as I can remember. Usually people will try to "dissect" each text in the end.

So then Luís doesn't do a translation?

I'm guessing not because he never proposed doing one himself. (I figure he's too busy moderating the game and adding all our languages to the language list ).

Well, usually the moderator of the game can't participate because he/she knows the original text and has access to all the translations in between.

English -> Turkish (Elaine) -> Russian (voron) -> Spanish (me) -> French (dEhiN) -> German (Car) -> Irish (kevin) -> English (księżycowy)

Sounds good

Would you be able to translate into Dutch (or Flemish)? That way, if Aurinĭa wants to participate maybe we can put her in between you and dEhiN:

English -> Turkish (Elaine) -> Russian (voron) -> Dutch (vijayjohn) -> French (Aurinĭa) -> Spanish (dEhiN) -> German (Car) -> Irish (kevin) -> English (księżycowy)

I don't like having too much English either, but the forum is much less active these days, so we don't have 30+ people participating as before and therefore sometimes it's harder to build a proper chain...

[Car]

If it's needed, I guess I could also translate into the other languages I mentioned and if it's really, really needed also from Italian or Dutch, but definitely not to them. Maybe we should post about it on UniLang's Facebook group and what else still exists? Maybe some formerly active members would want to come back because of nostalgia for the game? Retro is big, after all.

[IpseDixit]

I can translate to and from:

Italian
English
French
Spanish
Portuguese
Ladin

Only from:

Catalan

[Aurinĭa]

IMO translating it into English in the middle like that is boring and so easy that it's kind of unfair to the other participants. (I think it's fair to say that (for the purposes of this game) anybody participating in this game can just translate from another language they know into English; if they didn't know English, they wouldn't have been able to read this entire thread in the first place! By contrast, very few can translate stuff into probably any other language).

I wouldn't dissmis translating into English so callously. For many UniLangers English isn't their native language, and translating into it may not be so boring or easy. And even if it's a language you know well, making the translation as good as possible can take a bit of effort. Especially in a game like this, where texts can get rather fucked up.
Besides, not allowing English except for at the beginning and the end of the chain would potentially exclude users who don't speak many languages or whose combinations wouldn't work otherwise.

The way I saw it being done on another forum was as follows: Each person translates the text they're given (into their chosen target language, e.g. in the scenario I drew out, you'd translate it into French) and sends their translation to the next person, but also sends it to the person moderating the game with a translation into English (but of course, the translation into English is only sent to the moderator!). In the end, the moderator posts all of these texts: both the translations and the English version of each translation. That way, it's easier to see (and discuss, if you like) what happened in the end.

The problem with that is that that translation into English is obviously also a translation and might contain mistakes not present in the translation for the game and/or correct mistakes present in the game translation.

since I've played this game before and I'm not sure how many of the rest of you have

At one point there was even a website made by a UniLanger, so multiple games could be played at the same time without needing much input from a moderator, so those of us who were around then have probably played it a fair few times. I think that was before you joined, though.

Well, usually the moderator of the game can't participate because he/she knows the original text and has access to all the translations in between.

Unless you make the first translation.

French (Aurinĭa)

I'm not sure I'd want to translate into French.

[dEhiN]

English -> Turkish (Elaine) -> Russian (voron) -> Dutch (vijayjohn) -> French (Aurinĭa) -> Spanish (dEhiN) -> German (Car) -> Irish (kevin) -> English (księżycowy)

I'd prefer to translate to English or French, and only from Spanish and Portuguese. My Spanish is I think at an A2 level, so I'm not sure I'd be able to translate much of a text. Thinking about the example you linked to from a previous game, if I were translating that into Spanish, I would be looking up a fair amount of the vocabulary. I possibly could still translate it, but I don't know if it'd be a good translation - able to take into account connotations, nuances, and such. My Portuguese is I think at a low B1 level, so it's a little better than my Spanish. So the same more or less applies. For the sake of the chain though, I could translate to Spanish/Portuguese if need be.

I wouldn't dissmis translating into English so callously. For many UniLangers English isn't their native language, and translating into it may not be so boring or easy. And even if it's a language you know well, making the translation as good as possible can take a bit of effort. Especially in a game like this, where texts can get rather fucked up.
Besides, not allowing English except for at the beginning and the end of the chain would potentially exclude users who don't speak many languages or whose combinations wouldn't work otherwise.

Good point!

French (Aurinĭa)

I'm not sure I'd want to translate into French.

If you were to participate, what language pairs would you be comfortable in and willing to do?

[Covered]

Ok, so to make it more difficult i'll add languages I can kind of understand at least written.

Both ways:
Portuguese
English
German
Japanese
Polish

From only:
Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian
Czech
Spanish
Italian
French
Catalan
Russian
Ukrainian
Dutch
Mandarin
Cantonese
Irish
Danish
Swedish
Norwegian

[księżycowy]

I don't think that anyone so far has sneezed at the task of translating to English. I think most of us have been conscious of our skills. Perhaps even a bit overly critical.

[Aurinĭa]

I'd prefer to translate to English or French, and only from Spanish and Portuguese.

Perhaps Luís could make the first translation (English into Portuguese), if he'd like to participate instead of just moderating, and you could translate from Portuguese into French or English.

Ok, so to make it more difficult i'll add languages I can kind of understand at least written.

Or you could stick to languages you actually understand, not just "kind of", at least for this edition, and (now or later) start a FUBAR translation game. FUBAR = fucked up beyond all repair. Back in the day there were the "normal" translation games, for languages you know fairly well, and the FUBAR translation games for languages you don't know all that well. I've always liked this distinction, because for me part of the fun with these games is seeing how fucked up translations can get even when every translation was done between languages the person translating knew fairly well.

If you were to participate, what language pairs would you be comfortable in and willing to do?

Dutch, English <-> English, Swedish, German
French -> Dutch, English
Norwegian, Danish -> Dutch, English, Swedish

[dEhiN]

I'd prefer to translate to English or French, and only from Spanish and Portuguese.

Perhaps Luís could make the first translation (English into Portuguese), if he'd like to participate instead of just moderating, and you could translate from Portuguese into French or English.

That's true; or Covered could do the first one from English into Portuguese.

Ok, so to make it more difficult i'll add languages I can kind of understand at least written.

Or you could stick to languages you actually understand, not just "kind of", at least for this edition, and (now or later) start a FUBAR translation game. FUBAR = fucked up beyond all repair. Back in the day there were the "normal" translation games, for languages you know fairly well, and the FUBAR translation games for languages you don't know all that well. I've always liked this distinction, because for me part of the fun with these games is seeing how fucked up translations can get even when every translation was done between languages the person translating knew fairly well.

That FUBAR idea is pretty neat! But what would constitute actually understanding a language? Because based on Covered's meaning of "kind of", I probably could or would have to put all my languages except English (and maybe French - if "kind of" includes anything less than C1 or a full B2) into that category.