The final 'r' in Frisian is always very "light", so that's why it might sound as if it is dropped, but I would say it's generally not dropped. Unfortunately, I never learned Frisian except for the writing, so it's a little bit hard to be sure about the rules and stuff, that's why I made a recording, which will probably be useful: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0RaGAQeIoiyLowena wrote:1) Is 'r' dropped at the end of a word when the next word starts with t, d, n, l, s, or z? For example, "...fierder dwaan" I know the first 'r' is dropped, but I'm not sure about the second.
Dêrfan is possible, yes. I wouldn't be able to say which one is more commonly used, I would say they're equally common.Lowena wrote:2) In the following sentence:
"Dêr kin ik wol sêd fan wurde."
Is it more common to say "dêrfan" or "dêr ... fan"? Is "dêrfan" even possible?
I'd say no consonant is dropped. My pronunciation of the word: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0923wxTTOuVLowena wrote:3) Which, if any, consonants in the word "rieplachtsje" are dropped? I'd figure the 't' is dropped, but I'm not sure.
The final 'r' in Frisian is always very "light", so that's why it might sound as if it is dropped, but I would say it's generally not dropped. Unfortunately, I never learned Frisian except for the writing, so it's a little bit hard to be sure about the rules and stuff, that's why I made a recording, which will probably be useful: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0RaGAQeIoiy
Dêrfan is possible, yes. I wouldn't be able to say which one is more commonly used, I would say they're equally common.
I'd say no consonant is dropped. My pronunciation of the word: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0923wxTTOuV
Oh wow, that's really cool. There are not so many native speakers of West Frisian, so that's really cool you know one in real life now.Lowena wrote:Tige tank, Reinder! I've been wanting to learn West Frisian for awhile, and recently just found out that there's a native speaker of West Frisian at a weekly group I've been going to, and she said she'd love to help me and speak with me in it. So, now that I know a speaker of it in person, there's nothing really holding me back. I don't really like chatting with people online; I prefer face-to-face.
You mean the dictionary by Anne Dykstra? There's three pages of that dictionary here (last three pages of the document) to see what it's like. Unfortunately it seems a little bit hard indeed to get a English - Frisian dictionary.Lowena wrote:The only thing I really lack is a comprehensive English<>Frisian dictionary. There's one by Afûk that sounds really good, but unfortunately it's out of print, and I can't find it for sale anywhere for less than about 109 euros. But I have an adequate English<>Frisian wordlist, and a very good Dutch<>Frisian dictionary, so I can do English<>Dutch<>Frisian if I have to.
I meant to say that learning to speak it came naturally, I didn't make any effort, because it's my native language. I only had to learn how to write it by myself later, which was never taught. In fact, regarding to the Frisian Wikipedia only 17% of the people living in Friesland can actually write Frisian.Lowena wrote:Do you mean you only learned to speak Frisian and not write it? Because I thought it was your native language.
Mm, this might be laziness. It should probably be pronounced as [x], but in some contexts that might just take too much effort, haha. I'm really a beginner in phonology, so I'm sorry for not being able to clear this up for you.Lowena wrote:In your recording, it sounds like 'ch' isn't pronounced fully. Like, maybe it's turned into [h] or pre-aspiration or something. Or maybe my hearing is just bad!
Reinder wrote:I still remember that you thought my bilingual posts were really helpful, so I'll write my posts bilingual again.
Oh wow, that's really cool. There are not so many native speakers of West Frisian, so that's really cool you know one in real life now.
You mean the dictionary by Anne Dykstra? There's three pages of that dictionary here (last three pages of the document) to see what it's like. Unfortunately it seems a little bit hard indeed to get a English - Frisian dictionary.
I meant to say that learning to speak it came naturally, I didn't make any effort, because it's my native language. I only had to learn how to write it by myself later, which was never taught. In fact, regarding to the Frisian Wikipedia only 17% of the people living in Friesland can actually write Frisian.
Haha, OK, that make sense. Yeah, it does take quite a bit of effort to pronounce "chtsj" in the middle of a word.Mm, this might be laziness. It should probably be pronounced as [x], but in some contexts that might just take too much effort, haha. I'm really a beginner in phonology, so I'm sorry for not being able to clear this up for you.
It's really cool to see when someone's interested in my tiny native language, haha. If you have any questions, just feel free to contact me at any time.
We actually always say that Frisians are everywhere, so this proves it once again, haha.Lowena wrote:Yep! I was very surprised when she said she speaks it since there are only about half as many speakers of it as Basque. The probability of a Frisian speaker going to the same, small group of gender minorities in my area is pretty dang low.
I looked for Frisian<>English dictionaries in the internet, too, but I couldn't find any either.Lowena wrote:That's the one. It would be awesome to have, but I don't think it's worth USD$133 plus shipping to me. I could buy it, but that money could be far better spent elsewhere, and it's not that important. Like I said, I can get by fine with what I have now. Although the direct translation without Dutch as the middleman, along with the examples sentences, would be quite helpful.
I suppose it is, but it can also be used as a synonym of "hjir", since "hjir" would also work in my sentence.Lowena wrote:Is "hjirre" an emphatic form of "hjir", possibly?
As far as I'm concerned it a contraction of "hoe" and "dat", so it would actually be "om te sjen hoe dat it wurdboek derút sjocht", but instead the contracted form is used.Lowena wrote:What is "hoe't" a contraction of? I was thinking its "hoe it" (as the third person singular pronoun) but that would be redundant, unless that's the point.
Actually I think people are more willing to use Frisian now then they were before. They got a big campaign going on, which is called "Praat mar Frysk", and most Frisian youth seem to be quite possitive about the Frisian language, although a lot still prefer Dutch.Lowena wrote:It's a shame that Frisian isn't held in very high regard as a written language. I think it would be much better if the language were used a lot more in schools and just anywhere, but I'm not Frisian, so I don't know how Frisian speakers feel about it. But I do get the feeling that some people are starting to prefer Dutch over Frisian, even if Frisian is their native language.
It's good to analyze first. It's really good you already understand most of what I'm saying, because my constructions in Frisian differ quite from those I use in English.Lowena wrote:I've read all of your Frisian responses in your post here, and it's very easy to read. Most of the words I didn't know I could figure out from context and the English version, and only had to look up about 10 or so. I probably wouldn't know most of the words if you were to ask me to write in Frisian at this point, but I'll start practicing here very soon.
Lowena wrote:Ive still been very busy lately. But I'm still learning Frisian!
I have a couple questions.
1) Does "ús mem" mean "my mother" if the listener isn't related to you?
Hoogstwaarschijnlijk wrote:Lowena wrote:Ive still been very busy lately. But I'm still learning Frisian!
I have a couple questions.
1) Does "ús mem" mean "my mother" if the listener isn't related to you?
If this is true, then it's the same as in Brabantic We say: 'Ons mam' in stead of 'My mother', also to people who have a different mother
Hoogstwaarschijnlijk wrote:Lowena wrote:Ive still been very busy lately. But I'm still learning Frisian!
I have a couple questions.
1) Does "ús mem" mean "my mother" if the listener isn't related to you?
If this is true, then it's the same as in Brabantic We say: 'Ons mam' in stead of 'My mother', also to people who have a different mother
Does "How old is it then?" make sense? To ask how old she is would be "Hoe âld is se dan?" and asking how old he is would be "Hoe âld is er dan?".Lowena wrote:"Hoe âld is dy dan?"
Frysk is very often pronounced as "Friesk", I don't know where this initially came from, but I hear it all the time pronounced like that.Lowena wrote:3) Is "Frysk" pronounced "Friesk" in some dialects? The speaker that I know pronounced it like that, but I didn't think to ask her.
Reinder wrote:Does "How old is it then?" make sense? To ask how old she is would be "Hoe âld is se dan?" and asking how old he is would be "Hoe âld is er dan?".Lowena wrote:"Hoe âld is dy dan?"
Frysk is very often pronounced as "Friesk", I don't know where this initially came from, but I hear it all the time pronounced like that.Lowena wrote:3) Is "Frysk" pronounced "Friesk" in some dialects? The speaker that I know pronounced it like that, but I didn't think to ask her.
Yeah, for example "dy hûn" means "that dog".Lowena wrote:Ah! I didn't know "dy" also means "that". That makes a lot more sense now!
Yeah, that's called Geef Frysk. That would be the Utopian Frisian. Under the influence of Dutch a lot of Frisian words are no longer used in daily speech. Instead frisianized Dutch words are used. Geef Frysk would be the Frisian where all the Frisian words are still used instead of the frisianized Dutch words.Lowena wrote:Gotcha. She also said something about "/geɪ̯/ Frysk", something about it being hyperstandardized and no one deally speaks that way. Do you know anything about that? I don't even know how to spell the word.
Reinder wrote:Yeah, that's called Geef Frysk. That would be the Utopian Frisian. Under the influence of Dutch a lot of Frisian words are no longer used in daily speech. Instead frisianized Dutch words are used. Geef Frysk would be the Frisian where all the Frisian words are still used instead of the frisianized Dutch words.Lowena wrote:Gotcha. She also said something about "/geɪ̯/ Frysk", something about it being hyperstandardized and no one deally speaks that way. Do you know anything about that? I don't even know how to spell the word.
You wouldn't hear the two f's, since you'd have to make too much effort to pronounce them both, haha. As I'm writing here, I do use Geef Frysk, but in daily speech I say for example "Nederlâns" instead of "Nederlânsk".Lowena wrote:Ah, I guess I didn't realize there were two f's together there. I don't know how I'd distinguish loanwords from native words, especially since Frisian and Dutch aren't distantly related to begin with, so many words are naturally similar. Hopefully I don't learn too many "geve wurden" that would make me sound like I'm trying to speak Geef Frysk.
I can try to use less "Geef Fryske wurden", but it'll be a little hard to write speech language. I don't want to make too many mistakes either.Lowena wrote:If you could talk here how you would normally that'd be awesome. I have books and stuff that I can learn more formal Frysk from, so seeing some informal language would be very helpful.
I'm sorry, I'm not that advanced in phonetics yet.Lowena wrote:I have a question about the West Frisian /s/. Is it normally like the English /s/ of most dialects (laminal) or the Dutch /s/ (apical)? I seem to hear both, so maybe it varies from area to area.
An [ɑ] would be a short <a>, which means that it's an <a> in a closed syllable. <a>s in open syllables should be pronounced as [a]Lowena wrote:Also, is the /a/ like pronounced [ɑ] or [a]? Wikipedia and other places say that it's the former, but I seem to hear [a].
Return to “Frisian (Frysk/Friisk/Fräisk)”
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests