siblings, brothers and sisters | brother | sister

h34 · Postby **h34** » 2021-02-27, 16:06

| ӹзӓ (elder brother), шоля (younger brother) | ӓкӓ (elder sister), шыжар (younger sister)
Mari (Meadow): иза-шольо ден ака-шӱжар | иза (elder brother; uncle), шольо (younger brother) | ака (elder sister; aunt), шӱжар (younger sister)
Mordvinian (Erzya): лелят ды сазорт | леля (elder brother; uncle), ялакс (younger brother) | патя (elder sister; aunt), сазор (younger sister)
Mordvinian (Moksha): :?:

| патя (elder brother), пяльне (younger brother) | ака (elder sister), сазор (younger sister)
Udmurt: вын-апайёс | агай (elder brother; uncle), вын (younger brother) | апай (elder sister; aunt), сузэр (younger sister)

Tatar (Volga): :?:

| абый, абзый (elder brother), эне (younger brother) | апа (elder sister), сеңел (younger sister)

Linguaphile · Postby **Linguaphile** » 2021-03-01, 7:14

| ӹзӓ (elder brother), шоля (younger brother) | ӓкӓ (elder sister), шыжар (younger sister)
Mari (Meadow): иза-шольо ден ака-шӱжар | иза (elder brother; uncle), шольо (younger brother) | ака (elder sister; aunt), шӱжар (younger sister)
Mordvinian (Erzya): лелят ды сазорт | леля (elder brother; uncle), ялакс (younger brother) | патя (elder sister; aunt), сазор (younger sister)
Mordvinian (Moksha): :?:

| абый, абзый (elder brother), эне (younger brother) | апа (elder sister), сеңел (younger sister)

Aymara: jilatanaka kullakanaka | jilata | kullaka

linguoboy · Postby **linguoboy** » 2021-03-01, 14:48

I'm curious why you avoided using the English term "sibling".

Linguaphile · Postby **Linguaphile** » 2021-03-01, 14:57

linguoboy wrote:I'm curious why you avoided using the English term "sibling".

I also noticed that it was not listed, and added it in my post (but it looks like I forgot to list it among my "additions" at the top of the post). I don't know if it was left out intentionally or not, but I suspect a reason for h34's thread may be to see whether the word for the two genders together is based more on the word for "brother" or for "sister" and/or which is tends to be listed first when "brothers and sisters" are said together. In the case of "siblings", it's neither, but in the other way of saying it ("brothers and sisters") the word "brothers" more often comes first.

h34 · Postby **h34** » 2021-03-01, 17:09

Linguaphile wrote:
linguoboy wrote:I'm curious why you avoided using the English term "sibling".

I also noticed that it was not listed, and added it in my post (but it looks like I forgot to list it among my "editions" at the top of the post). I don't know if it was left out intentionally or not, but I suspect a reason for h34's thread may be to see whether the word for the two genders together is based more on the word for "brother" or for "sister" and/or which is tends to be listed first when "brothers and sisters" are said together. In the case of "siblings", it's neither.

Yes, that's why I omitted it; but of course it should be added. Thanks for pointing it out! In German I should add "Brüder und Schwestern" for the same reason. It's just that in German "Geschwister" is commonly used, while in English "brothers and sisters" seems to be more common than "siblings"; but perhaps that's just my impression, correct me if I'm wrong.

What I also found interesting is that among those languages that form compounds for the equivalents of "siblings", in Estonian and Komi "sister(s)" precedes "brother(s)", and there is no conjunction.

Another thing I'm curious about is how common it is to make age-related distinctions. In some Uralic and Turkic languages (and in Mandarin Chinese :?:

) there doesn't seem to be a generic word for either "brother" or "sister"; only specific terms like "younger brother", "elder sister" etc.

Suprisingly for me - from my eurocentric point of view - the words for elder brother/sister sometimes overlap with other meanings, like "uncle" and "aunt". I was wondering if there are parallels with other languages. Yesterday Vijayjohn mentioned something similar (another overlap in meanings) about Malayalam. I hope it's alright to quote his post here, it was originally posted in the Last word of your mother tongue you have learned thread:

vijayjohn wrote:In my family at least:

നാത്തൂൻ [n̪aːˈt̪uːn] 'woman's sister-in-law'

A man's sister-in-law is ചേടത്തി [ˈt͡ʃeˑɖət̪i] if older or അനിയത്തി [əˈnijət̪i] if younger. These literally mean 'older sister' and 'younger sister' and are the informal forms of the (partially) Sanskrit-derived formal terms ജ്യേഷ്ഠത്തി [ˈd͡ʒjeːʃʈʰət̪i] and അനുജത്തി [əˈnud͡ʒət̪i], respectively. However, in the meaning of 'older sister', we usually contract ചേടത്തി even further to ചേച്ചി [ˈt͡ʃeːt͡ʃi].

| ӹзӓ (elder brother), шоля (younger brother) | ӓкӓ (elder sister), шыжар (younger sister)
Mari (Meadow): иза-шольо ден ака-шӱжар | иза (elder brother; uncle), шольо (younger brother) | ака (elder sister; aunt), шӱжар (younger sister)
Mordvinian (Erzya): лелят ды сазорт | леля (elder brother; uncle), ялакс (younger brother) | патя (elder sister; aunt), сазор (younger sister)
Mordvinian (Moksha): :?:

| абый, абзый (elder brother), эне (younger brother) | апа (elder sister), сеңел (younger sister)

Aymara: jilatanaka kullakanaka | jilata | kullaka

linguoboy · Postby **linguoboy** » 2021-03-01, 17:56

h34 wrote:Yes, that's why I omitted it; but of course it should be added. Thanks for pointing it out! In German I should add "Brüder und Schwestern" for the same reason. It's just that in German "Geschwister" is commonly used, while in English "brothers and sisters" seems to be more common than "siblings"; but perhaps that's just my impression, correct me if I'm wrong.

Coincidentally, I just watched an "autocomplete interview" with an American actor. (This is where the interviewers use autocomplete to find the most common Google searches about an individual and then turn those into questions.) The relevant question was "does Nick Offerman have siblings?" and not "does Nick Offerman have brothers or sisters?" I think "siblings" is definitely becoming more common as gender neutral language becomes more and more normalised. If it's not the dominant term, it will be soon.

h34 wrote:Another thing I'm curious about is how common it is to make age-related distinctions. In some Uralic and Turkic languages (and in Mandarin Chinese ) there doesn't seem to be a generic word for either "brother" or "sister"; only specific terms like "younger brother", "elder sister" etc.

Very common, especially in Asia (to the point where I simply assume only specific terms exist when I learn an Asian language unless I find out otherwise). I'll add some later, but here I'll just mention that the usual Standard Chinese term for "sister(s)", 姊妹 zǐmèi, is a compound of words for "older sister" and "younger sister". If you were talking about a particular sister, you'd use an age-specific term. Korean borrowed this word as 자매 /camay/ because it had a similar linguistic gap. (Korean will be challenging to add here because terms vary not only by the age and sex of the reference but also by the sex of the speaker. For instance, your older sister is 누나 /nwuna/ if you're male and 언니 /enni/ is you're female, whereas a younger sibling of either sex is normally just 동생 /tongsayng/.)

h34 wrote:Suprisingly for me - from my eurocentric point of view - the words for elder brother/sister sometimes overlap with other meanings, like "uncle" and "aunt". I was wondering if there are parallels with other languages.

So kinship terminology gets so complex and varies so much from language to language that it's its own field of study. I'll have to review it before posting about it here because it's so counterintuitive, but the chapter on the topic in Weltfish's book on the Pawnee described how a rather limited set of terms could be used to indicate a wide variety of relationships. What was particularly striking to me was how these terms were extended based on analogous social relationships with the result, for instance, that a young child could be called "grandfather" as a term of affection.

Linguaphile · Postby **Linguaphile** » 2021-03-01, 18:14

h34 wrote:What I also found interesting is that among those languages that form compounds for the equivalents of "siblings", in Estonian and Komi "sister(s)" precedes "brother(s)", and there is no conjunction.

And in Võro (sõsaraq-veleq). This is a more general feature of several Uralic languages, where a word pair is used to indicate a collective group. Often they mean something more generally than just the two items named. Some others are:

Estonian:
"emad-isad" (mothers-fathers = parents)
"käed-jalad" (arms-legs = limbs)
"kopsud-maksad" (lungs-livers = internal organs)
"puud-põõsad" (trees-bushes = woody plants)
"noad-kahvlid" (knives-forks = utensils)
"leivad-saiad" (dark bread-white bread = breads, bakery goods)
"naelad-kruvid" (nails-screws = fasteners)
"hundid-karud" (wolves-bears = forest animals)

Erzya:
"ялакст-патят" (younger brother-elder sister = siblings)
"лелят-сазорт" (elder brother-younger sister = siblings)
"ловсот-ойть" (milk-butter = dairy products)
"седейть-максот" = (hearts-livers = internal organs)
"карть-пракстат" = (bast shoes-fur boots = footwear)

I know this type of construction is common in many languages throughout the world (for example, I've seen similar two-word collocations or phrase pairs in both Hmong and Nahuatl, where the two items together indicate a broader meaning than just the two items specified).

Edit: I found additional Erzya translations, so I'm adding them.

Danish: søskende | bror | søster
English: brothers and sisters; siblings | brother | sister
German: Geschwister, (Brüder und Schwestern) | Bruder | Schwester
Swedish: syskon | bror | syster

Spanish: hermanos | hermano | hermana

Russian: братья и сёстры | брат | сестра

Latvian: brāļi un māsas | brālis | māsa

Estonian: õed-vennad | vend; veli | õde; sõsar
Finnish: sisarukset | veli | sisar; sisko
Komi-Zyrian: чоя-вока | вок | чой
Livonian: veļīd ja sõzārd | veļ | sõzār
Mari (Hill): :?:

| ӹзӓ (elder brother), шоля (younger brother) | ӓкӓ (elder sister), шыжар (younger sister)
Mari (Meadow): иза-шольо ден ака-шӱжар | иза (elder brother; uncle), шольо (younger brother) | ака (elder sister; aunt), шӱжар (younger sister)
Mordvinian (Erzya): ялакст-патят; лелят-сазорт; лелят ды сазорт; ялакст ды патят | леля (elder brother; uncle), ялакс (younger brother) | патя (elder sister; aunt), сазор (younger sister)
Mordvinian (Moksha): :?:

| абый, абзый (elder brother), эне (younger brother) | апа (elder sister), сеңел (younger sister)

Aymara: jilatanaka kullakanaka | jilata | kullaka

linguoboy · Postby **linguoboy** » 2021-03-01, 19:59

I added forms in the prescriptive standards for Korean, Chinese, and Indonesian along with a few more Indo-European languages. The Osage system is as complicated as the Korean and requires diacritics so I decided maybe it can wait.

| ӹзӓ (elder brother), шоля (younger brother) | ӓкӓ (elder sister), шыжар (younger sister)
Mari (Meadow): иза-шольо ден ака-шӱжар | иза (elder brother; uncle), шольо (younger brother) | ака (elder sister; aunt), шӱжар (younger sister)
Mordvinian (Erzya): ялакст-патят; лелят-сазорт; лелят ды сазорт; ялакст ды патят | леля (elder brother; uncle), ялакс (younger brother) | патя (elder sister; aunt), сазор (younger sister)
Mordvinian (Moksha): :?:

| абый, абзый (elder brother), эне (younger brother) | апа (elder sister), сеңел (younger sister)

Korean: 형제자매 /hyengceycamay/ | [older] 형 /hyeng/ [of a male], 오빠 /oppa/ [of a female]; [younger] 아우 /awu/ of a male], 동생 /tongsayng/ [male or female] | [older] 누나 /nwuna/ [of a male], 언니 /enni/ [of a female]; [younger] 누이 /nwui/ [of a male], 동생 /tongsayng/ [male or female]

Standard Chinese: 兄弟姐妹 xiōngdì jiěmèi | [older] 哥哥 gēge, [younger] 弟弟 dìdi | [older] 姐姐 jiějie, [younger] 妹妹 mèimei

Indonesian: saudara | kakak [older sibling of either sex], adik [younger sibling of either sex]

Aymara: jilatanaka kullakanaka | jilata | kullaka

Linguaphile · Postby **Linguaphile** » 2021-03-01, 20:46

| ӹзӓ (elder brother), шоля (younger brother) | ӓкӓ (elder sister), шыжар (younger sister)
Mari (Meadow): иза-шольо ден ака-шӱжар | иза (elder brother; uncle), шольо (younger brother) | ака (elder sister; aunt), шӱжар (younger sister)
Mordvinian (Erzya): ялакст-патят; лелят-сазорт; лелят ды сазорт; ялакст ды патят | леля (elder brother; uncle), ялакс (younger brother) | патя (elder sister; aunt), сазор (younger sister)
Mordvinian (Moksha): :?:

| абый, абзый (elder brother), эне (younger brother) | апа (elder sister), сеңел (younger sister)

Korean: 형제자매 /hyengceycamay/ | [older] 형 /hyeng/ [of a male], 오빠 /oppa/ [of a female]; [younger] 아우 /awu/ of a male], 동생 /tongsayng/ [male or female] | [older] 누나 /nwuna/ [of a male], 언니 /enni/ [of a female]; [younger] 누이 /nwui/ [of a male], 동생 /tongsayng/ [male or female]

Standard Chinese: 兄弟姐妹 xiōngdì jiěmèi | [older] 哥哥 gēge, [younger] 弟弟 dìdi | [older] 姐姐 jiějie, [younger] 妹妹 mèimei

Hmong Daw: kwvtij [if all are boys]; vivncaus [if all are girls]; menyuam niamtxiv ib plab [lit. children of parents' one belly] | tijlaug [man's older brother]; tus / kwv [man's younger brother]; ; nus [woman's brother] | niam laus [woman's older sister]; niam hluas [woman's younger sister]; muam [man's sister]
Chuanqiandian Hmong: gud dix ved njoul | dix lous [man's older brother]; gud [man's younger brother]; nol [woman's brother] | daik loul / ved [woman's older sister]; daik hluak / njoul [woman's younger sister]; muaf [man's sister]

Indonesian: saudara | kakak [older sibling of either sex], adik [younger sibling of either sex]

Aymara: jilatanaka kullakanaka | jilata | kullaka

Postby **Dormouse559** » 2021-03-02, 3:48

| ӹзӓ (elder brother), шоля (younger brother) | ӓкӓ (elder sister), шыжар (younger sister)
Mari (Meadow): иза-шольо ден ака-шӱжар | иза (elder brother; uncle), шольо (younger brother) | ака (elder sister; aunt), шӱжар (younger sister)
Mordvinian (Erzya): ялакст-патят; лелят-сазорт; лелят ды сазорт; ялакст ды патят | леля (elder brother; uncle), ялакс (younger brother) | патя (elder sister; aunt), сазор (younger sister)
Mordvinian (Moksha): :?:

| абый, абзый (elder brother), эне (younger brother) | апа (elder sister), сеңел (younger sister)

Korean: 형제자매 /hyengceycamay/ | [older] 형 /hyeng/ [of a male], 오빠 /oppa/ [of a female]; [younger] 아우 /awu/ of a male], 동생 /tongsayng/ [male or female] | [older] 누나 /nwuna/ [of a male], 언니 /enni/ [of a female]; [younger] 누이 /nwui/ [of a male], 동생 /tongsayng/ [male or female]

Standard Chinese: 兄弟姐妹 xiōngdì jiěmèi | [older] 哥哥 gēge, [younger] 弟弟 dìdi | [older] 姐姐 jiějie, [younger] 妹妹 mèimei

Hmong Daw: kwvtij [if all are boys]; vivncaus [if all are girls]; menyuam niamtxiv ib plab [lit. children of parents' one belly] | tijlaug [man's older brother]; tus / kwv [man's younger brother]; ; nus [woman's brother] | niam laus [woman's older sister]; niam hluas [woman's younger sister]; muam [man's sister]
Chuanqiandian Hmong: gud dix ved njoul | dix lous [man's older brother]; gud [man's younger brother]; nol [woman's brother] | daik loul / ved [woman's older sister]; daik hluak / njoul [woman's younger sister]; muaf [man's sister]

Indonesian: saudara | kakak [older sibling of either sex], adik [younger sibling of either sex]

Aymara: jilatanaka kullakanaka | jilata | kullaka

dEhiN · Postby **dEhiN** » 2021-03-02, 6:07

| ӹзӓ (elder brother), шоля (younger brother) | ӓкӓ (elder sister), шыжар (younger sister)
Mari (Meadow): иза-шольо ден ака-шӱжар | иза (elder brother; uncle), шольо (younger brother) | ака (elder sister; aunt), шӱжар (younger sister)
Mordvinian (Erzya): ялакст-патят; лелят-сазорт; лелят ды сазорт; ялакст ды патят | леля (elder brother; uncle), ялакс (younger brother) | патя (elder sister; aunt), сазор (younger sister)
Mordvinian (Moksha): :?:

| абый, абзый (elder brother), эне (younger brother) | апа (elder sister), сеңел (younger sister)

Korean: 형제자매 /hyengceycamay/ | [older] 형 /hyeng/ [of a male], 오빠 /oppa/ [of a female]; [younger] 아우 /awu/ of a male], 동생 /tongsayng/ [male or female] | [older] 누나 /nwuna/ [of a male], 언니 /enni/ [of a female]; [younger] 누이 /nwui/ [of a male], 동생 /tongsayng/ [male or female]

Standard Chinese: 兄弟姐妹 xiōngdì jiěmèi | [older] 哥哥 gēge, [younger] 弟弟 dìdi | [older] 姐姐 jiějie, [younger] 妹妹 mèimei

Hmong Daw: kwvtij [if all are boys]; vivncaus [if all are girls]; menyuam niamtxiv ib plab [lit. children of parents' one belly] | tijlaug [man's older brother]; tus / kwv [man's younger brother]; ; nus [woman's brother] | niam laus [woman's older sister]; niam hluas [woman's younger sister]; muam [man's sister]
Chuanqiandian Hmong: gud dix ved njoul | dix lous [man's older brother]; gud [man's younger brother]; nol [woman's brother] | daik loul / ved [woman's older sister]; daik hluak / njoul [woman's younger sister]; muaf [man's sister]

Indonesian: saudara | kakak [older sibling of either sex], adik [younger sibling of either sex]

Aymara: jilatanaka kullakanaka | jilata | kullaka

Tamil: [sibling] சகோதரன் /sa(ɣ/h)oːd̪əɾən/, [siblings] சகோதரர்கள் /sa(ɣ/h)oːd̪əɾəɾ(ɣ/h)əɭ/ | [brother] சகோதரன் /sa(ɣ/h)oːd̪əɾən/, [older brother] அண்ணா /aɳːa(ː)/, [younger brother] தம்பி /t̪ambi | [sister] சகோதரி /sa(ɣ/h)oːd̪əɾi/, [older sister] அக்கா /akːa(ː)/, [younger sister] தங்கை /t̪aŋgei/, [younger sister, colloquial endearing] தங்கச்சி /t̪aŋgət͡ʃːi/ (Note: word-medial க = /ɣ/ in Indian Tamil and /h/ in Sri Lankan Tamil)

Prantsis · Postby **Prantsis** » 2021-03-03, 23:39

Linguaphile wrote:
h34 wrote:What I also found interesting is that among those languages that form compounds for the equivalents of "siblings", in Estonian and Komi "sister(s)" precedes "brother(s)", and there is no conjunction.

And in Võro (sõsaraq-veleq). This is a more general feature of several Uralic languages, where a word pair is used to indicate a collective group. Often they mean something more generally than just the two items named. Some others are:

As regards the word order in Estonian, it seems to depend sometimes more on euphony than semantics. Some tendencies observed in that kind of pairs are listed on p.36-37 in this pdf.

Linguaphile · Postby **Linguaphile** » 2021-03-04, 3:19

Prantsis wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:
h34 wrote:What I also found interesting is that among those languages that form compounds for the equivalents of "siblings", in Estonian and Komi "sister(s)" precedes "brother(s)", and there is no conjunction.

And in Võro (sõsaraq-veleq). This is a more general feature of several Uralic languages, where a word pair is used to indicate a collective group. Often they mean something more generally than just the two items named. Some others are:

As regards the word order in Estonian, it seems to depend sometimes more on euphony than semantics. Some tendencies observed in that kind of pairs are listed on p.36-37 in this pdf.

| абый, абзый (elder brother), эне (younger brother) | апа (elder sister), сеңел (younger sister)

Korean: 형제자매 /hyengceycamay/ | [older] 형 /hyeng/ [of a male], 오빠 /oppa/ [of a female]; [younger] 아우 /awu/ of a male], 동생 /tongsayng/ [male or female] | [older] 누나 /nwuna/ [of a male], 언니 /enni/ [of a female]; [younger] 누이 /nwui/ [of a male], 동생 /tongsayng/ [male or female]

Standard Chinese: 兄弟姐妹 xiōngdì jiěmèi | [older] 哥哥 gēge, [younger] 弟弟 dìdi | [older] 姐姐 jiějie, [younger] 妹妹 mèimei

Hmong Daw: kwvtij [if all are boys]; vivncaus [if all are girls]; menyuam niamtxiv ib plab [lit. children of parents' one belly] | tijlaug [man's older brother]; tus / kwv [man's younger brother]; ; nus [woman's brother] | niam laus [woman's older sister]; niam hluas [woman's younger sister]; muam [man's sister]
Chuanqiandian Hmong: gud dix ved njoul | dix lous [man's older brother]; gud [man's younger brother]; nol [woman's brother] | daik loul / ved [woman's older sister]; daik hluak / njoul [woman's younger sister]; muaf [man's sister]

Indonesian: saudara | kakak [older sibling of either sex], adik [younger sibling of either sex]

Aymara: jilatanaka kullakanaka | jilata | kullaka

Tamil: [sibling] சகோதரன் /sa(ɣ/h)oːd̪əɾən/, [siblings] சகோதரர்கள் /sa(ɣ/h)oːd̪əɾəɾ(ɣ/h)əɭ/ | [brother] சகோதரன் /sa(ɣ/h)oːd̪əɾən/, [older brother] அண்ணா /aɳːa(ː)/, [younger brother] தம்பி /t̪ambi | [sister] சகோதரி /sa(ɣ/h)oːd̪əɾi/, [older sister] அக்கா /akːa(ː)/, [younger sister] தங்கை /t̪aŋgei/, [younger sister, colloquial endearing] தங்கச்சி /t̪aŋgət͡ʃːi/ (Note: word-medial க = /ɣ/ in Indian Tamil and /h/ in Sri Lankan Tamil)

h34 · Postby **h34** » 2021-03-04, 17:01

Linguaphile wrote:
Prantsis wrote: As regards the word order in Estonian, it seems to depend sometimes more on euphony than semantics. Some tendencies observed in that kind of pairs are listed on p.36-37 in this pdf.

Aitäh pdf-i eest!
I found some more words for Mari: "изак-шольяк" for "siblings" in Meadow Mari, "ӓкӓк-шоляк" in Hill Mari, both meaning "elder sister-younger brother". Added below.

| абый, абзый (elder brother), эне (younger brother) | апа (elder sister), сеңел (younger sister)

Korean: 형제자매 /hyengceycamay/ | [older] 형 /hyeng/ [of a male], 오빠 /oppa/ [of a female]; [younger] 아우 /awu/ of a male], 동생 /tongsayng/ [male or female] | [older] 누나 /nwuna/ [of a male], 언니 /enni/ [of a female]; [younger] 누이 /nwui/ [of a male], 동생 /tongsayng/ [male or female]

Standard Chinese: 兄弟姐妹 xiōngdì jiěmèi | [older] 哥哥 gēge, [younger] 弟弟 dìdi | [older] 姐姐 jiějie, [younger] 妹妹 mèimei

Hmong Daw: kwvtij [if all are boys]; vivncaus [if all are girls]; menyuam niamtxiv ib plab [lit. children of parents' one belly] | tijlaug [man's older brother]; tus / kwv [man's younger brother]; ; nus [woman's brother] | niam laus [woman's older sister]; niam hluas [woman's younger sister]; muam [man's sister]
Chuanqiandian Hmong: gud dix ved njoul | dix lous [man's older brother]; gud [man's younger brother]; nol [woman's brother] | daik loul / ved [woman's older sister]; daik hluak / njoul [woman's younger sister]; muaf [man's sister]

Indonesian: saudara | kakak [older sibling of either sex], adik [younger sibling of either sex]

Aymara: jilatanaka kullakanaka | jilata | kullaka

Tamil: [sibling] சகோதரன் /sa(ɣ/h)oːd̪əɾən/, [siblings] சகோதரர்கள் /sa(ɣ/h)oːd̪əɾəɾ(ɣ/h)əɭ/ | [brother] சகோதரன் /sa(ɣ/h)oːd̪əɾən/, [older brother] அண்ணா /aɳːa(ː)/, [younger brother] தம்பி /t̪ambi | [sister] சகோதரி /sa(ɣ/h)oːd̪əɾi/, [older sister] அக்கா /akːa(ː)/, [younger sister] தங்கை /t̪aŋgei/, [younger sister, colloquial endearing] தங்கச்சி /t̪aŋgət͡ʃːi/ (Note: word-medial க = /ɣ/ in Indian Tamil and /h/ in Sri Lankan Tamil)

Linguaphile · Postby **Linguaphile** » 2021-03-04, 17:56

h34 wrote:Thanks for all the replies and for the pdf! Adding another word for "siblings" in Meadow Mari, акак-шоляк (perhaps the closest equivalent to Hill Mari "ӓкӓк-шоляк", "elder sister - younger brother"). I'm not sure but isn't "изак-шоляк" ("elder brother - younger brother") a generic word for "brother(s)"? (Moved it to "brother" for now.)[/url]

Arrgh, yes, акак-шоляк is what I meant to post! :roll:

I mean I even remember thinking that the only difference between акак and ӓкӓк was the umlauts/dieresis, and I was not sure about the ь in шол(ь)як because a couple sources had it and others didn't. And yet акак is not what I typed.
I don't know about изак-шоляк. It was just a typo but yes, I assume it would mean "brothers" in general.
(And there I was so happy to have found that one for you, too. Good grief. I give up.)

h34 · Postby **h34** » 2021-03-04, 19:36

Linguaphile wrote:Arrgh, yes, акак-шоляк is what I meant to post! I mean I even remember thinking that the only difference between акак and ӓкӓк was the umlauts/dieresis, and I was not sure about the ь in шол(ь)як because a couple sources had it and others didn't. And yet акак is not what I typed.
I don't know about изак-шоляк. It was just a typo but yes, I assume it would mean "brothers" in general.
(And there I was so happy to have found that one for you, too. Good grief. I give up.)

Thanks a lot anyway!

| абый, абзый (elder brother), эне (younger brother) | апа (elder sister), сеңел (younger sister)

Korean: 형제자매 /hyengceycamay/ | [older] 형 /hyeng/ [of a male], 오빠 /oppa/ [of a female]; [younger] 아우 /awu/ of a male], 동생 /tongsayng/ [male or female] | [older] 누나 /nwuna/ [of a male], 언니 /enni/ [of a female]; [younger] 누이 /nwui/ [of a male], 동생 /tongsayng/ [male or female]

Standard Chinese: 兄弟姐妹 xiōngdì jiěmèi | [older] 哥哥 gēge, [younger] 弟弟 dìdi | [older] 姐姐 jiějie, [younger] 妹妹 mèimei

Hmong Daw: kwvtij [if all are boys]; vivncaus [if all are girls]; menyuam niamtxiv ib plab [lit. children of parents' one belly] | tijlaug [man's older brother]; tus / kwv [man's younger brother]; ; nus [woman's brother] | niam laus [woman's older sister]; niam hluas [woman's younger sister]; muam [man's sister]
Chuanqiandian Hmong: gud dix ved njoul | dix lous [man's older brother]; gud [man's younger brother]; nol [woman's brother] | daik loul / ved [woman's older sister]; daik hluak / njoul [woman's younger sister]; muaf [man's sister]

Indonesian: saudara | kakak [older sibling of either sex], adik [younger sibling of either sex]

Aymara: jilatanaka kullakanaka | jilata | kullaka

Tamil: [sibling] சகோதரன் /sa(ɣ/h)oːd̪əɾən/, [siblings] சகோதரர்கள் /sa(ɣ/h)oːd̪əɾəɾ(ɣ/h)əɭ/ | [brother] சகோதரன் /sa(ɣ/h)oːd̪əɾən/, [older brother] அண்ணா /aɳːa(ː)/, [younger brother] தம்பி /t̪ambi | [sister] சகோதரி /sa(ɣ/h)oːd̪əɾi/, [older sister] அக்கா /akːa(ː)/, [younger sister] தங்கை /t̪aŋgei/, [younger sister, colloquial endearing] தங்கச்சி /t̪aŋgət͡ʃːi/ (Note: word-medial க = /ɣ/ in Indian Tamil and /h/ in Sri Lankan Tamil)

nijk · Postby **nijk** » 2021-03-04, 19:47

| абый, абзый (elder brother), эне (younger brother) | апа (elder sister), сеңел (younger sister)

Korean: 형제자매 /hyengceycamay/ | [older] 형 /hyeng/ [of a male], 오빠 /oppa/ [of a female]; [younger] 아우 /awu/ of a male], 동생 /tongsayng/ [male or female] | [older] 누나 /nwuna/ [of a male], 언니 /enni/ [of a female]; [younger] 누이 /nwui/ [of a male], 동생 /tongsayng/ [male or female]

Standard Chinese: 兄弟姐妹 xiōngdì jiěmèi | [older] 哥哥 gēge, [younger] 弟弟 dìdi | [older] 姐姐 jiějie, [younger] 妹妹 mèimei

Hmong Daw: kwvtij [if all are boys]; vivncaus [if all are girls]; menyuam niamtxiv ib plab [lit. children of parents' one belly] | tijlaug [man's older brother]; tus / kwv [man's younger brother]; ; nus [woman's brother] | niam laus [woman's older sister]; niam hluas [woman's younger sister]; muam [man's sister]
Chuanqiandian Hmong: gud dix ved njoul | dix lous [man's older brother]; gud [man's younger brother]; nol [woman's brother] | daik loul / ved [woman's older sister]; daik hluak / njoul [woman's younger sister]; muaf [man's sister]

Indonesian: saudara | kakak [older sibling of either sex], adik [younger sibling of either sex]

Aymara: jilatanaka kullakanaka | jilata | kullaka

Tamil: [sibling] சகோதரன் /sa(ɣ/h)oːd̪əɾən/, [siblings] சகோதரர்கள் /sa(ɣ/h)oːd̪əɾəɾ(ɣ/h)əɭ/ | [brother] சகோதரன் /sa(ɣ/h)oːd̪əɾən/, [older brother] அண்ணா /aɳːa(ː)/, [younger brother] தம்பி /t̪ambi | [sister] சகோதரி /sa(ɣ/h)oːd̪əɾi/, [older sister] அக்கா /akːa(ː)/, [younger sister] தங்கை /t̪aŋgei/, [younger sister, colloquial endearing] தங்கச்சி /t̪aŋgət͡ʃːi/ (Note: word-medial க = /ɣ/ in Indian Tamil and /h/ in Sri Lankan Tamil)

UniLang Language Community • Forum

siblings, brothers and sisters | brother | sister

Re: brothers and sisters | brother | sister

Re: brothers and sisters | brother | sister

Re: brothers and sisters | brother | sister

Re: brothers and sisters | brother | sister

Re: brothers and sisters | brother | sister

Re: brothers and sisters | brother | sister

Re: brothers and sisters | brother | sister

Re: brothers and sisters | brother | sister

Re: brothers and sisters | brother | sister

Re: brothers and sisters | brother | sister

Re: brothers and sisters | brother | sister

Re: brothers and sisters | brother | sister

Re: brothers and sisters | brother | sister

Re: brothers and sisters | brother | sister

Re: brothers and sisters | brother | sister

Re: brothers and sisters | brother | sister

Who is online