WTF is that?! Ukraine!

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Prosper_Youplaboum
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Re: WTF is that?! Ukraine!

Postby Prosper_Youplaboum » 2011-05-07, 22:11

C'est quoi ce merdier ? is perfectly fine to me. Ce putain de truc sounds like badly translated English to me.


pas pour moi ; par contre pour moi, merdier signifie autre chose (désordre, bordel).
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Re: WTF is that?! Ukraine!

Postby Hunef » 2011-05-07, 22:23

Added one possible translation to Swedish ([flag]sv[/flag]).

***********************************************************************************

[flag]en[/flag] What the fuck is that?! Ukraine!
[flag]en-us[/flag] What the hell is that shit?! The Ukraine! OR What the fuck is that shit?! The Ukraine!
[flag]nl[/flag] Godverdomme wat is dat?! Oekraïne!
[flag]fy[/flag] Godferdomme wat is dat?! Oekraïne!
[flag]de[/flag] Was (zum Henker / zum Teufel / verdammt nochmal) ist das denn?!? Die Ukraine!
[flag]sv[/flag] Vad fan är det där!? Ukraina!

[flag]ca[/flag] Què collons és això? Ucraïna!
[flag]es[/flag] ¿Qué cojones es eso? ¡Ucrania!
[flag]es-mx[/flag] ¡¿Qué chingados es eso?! ¡Ucrania!
[flag]es-SV[/flag] —¡¿Qué mierdas es eso?! —¡Ucrania!
[flag]fr[/flag] C'est quoi ce merdier?! L'Ukraine!
[flag]it[/flag] Che cazzo è?! L'Ucraina!
[flag]nap[/flag] Chè cazz'è cchesse?! La Ucraína!
[flag]pt-br[/flag] Que porra é essa?! A Ucrânia! OR O que é essa bagaça?! A Ucrânia!
[flag]la[/flag] Quid, malum, hoc est? Ucraina!

[flag]pl[/flag] Co to, kurwa, jest?! Ukraina!
[flag]ru[/flag] Что это за хуйня?! Украина!

[flag]vi[/flag] (Saigon) Cái đéo / Cái con mẹ / Cái lồn / Cái con cặc gì dzậy / gì đó (mảy)? (Nước) Ukraina!

[flag]fi[/flag] Mikä vittu toi o?! Ukraina! (Lahti Spoken Finnish)
But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
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Re: WTF is that?! Ukraine!

Postby Bubulus » 2011-05-07, 22:34

Michael wrote:I know for sure that we use the word "coño" though. I'm hearing it all the time, I swear.
I can agree that its use is expanding to other zones, you can hear it in San Salvador amongst youngsters too, but it's still markedly Spaniard. :P

Also, an exchange with my mother just before submitting this post:

—Hey mamá, ¿veá que "coño" solo los españoles lo usan?
—SÍ VOS, NADIE [en El Salvador] USA ESO. ¡ESOS ESPAÑOLES MALCRIADOS! ¡ELLOS SON LOS QUE NOS ENSEÑARON!
—No pero... Hay bastante gente al menos de mi edá que usa eso. ¿Te acordás del Torres? (Torres = un amigo de mi hermano.) Él lo usaba todo el tiempo. Igual el Fernando. (Un ex-compañero de clase mío.)
—¡Pero ahí son ustedes los malcriados!

You get the idea. :P :lol:

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Re: WTF is that?! Ukraine!

Postby Eoghan » 2011-05-07, 23:35

[flag]en[/flag] What the fuck is that?! Ukraine!
[flag]en-us[/flag] What the hell is that shit?! The Ukraine! OR What the fuck is that shit?! The Ukraine!
[flag]nl[/flag] Godverdomme wat is dat?! Oekraïne!
[flag]fy[/flag] Godferdomme wat is dat?! Oekraïne!
[flag]de[/flag] Was (zum Henker / zum Teufel / verdammt nochmal) ist das denn?!? Die Ukraine!
Swabian: Wos fir oi Schoiß isch dos denn ?!! Die Ugraine!
Westrobothnian: Men va i heilviti jer jennars för naggerst? He jer Ukraina!
[flag]sv[/flag] Men vad i helvete är det där?!? Ukraina!

[flag]gd[/flag] Dè sin!?! Seo an Ùcrain




[flag]ca[/flag] Què collons és això? Ucraïna!
[flag]es[/flag] ¿Qué cojones es eso? ¡Ucrania!
[flag]es-mx[/flag] ¡¿Qué chingados es eso?! ¡Ucrania!
[flag]es-SV[/flag] —¡¿Qué mierdas es eso?! —¡Ucrania!
[flag]fr[/flag] C'est quoi ce merdier?! L'Ukraine!
[flag]it[/flag] Che cazzo è?! L'Ucraina!
[flag]nap[/flag] Chè cazz'è cchesse?! La Ucraína!
[flag]pt-br[/flag] Que porra é essa?! A Ucrânia! OR O que é essa bagaça?! A Ucrânia!
[flag]la[/flag] Quid, malum, hoc est? Ucraina!

[flag]pl[/flag] Co to, kurwa, jest?! Ukraina!
[flag]ru[/flag] Что это за хуйня?! Украина!

[flag]vi[/flag] (Saigon) Cái đéo / Cái con mẹ / Cái lồn / Cái con cặc gì dzậy / gì đó (mảy)? (Nước) Ukraina!

[flag]fi[/flag] Mikä vittu toi o?! Ukraina! (Lahti Spoken Finnish)

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Re: WTF is that?! Ukraine!

Postby Michael » 2011-05-08, 5:31

DelBoy wrote:But... the point of the translations forum is to translate a phrase into different languages (or give an equivalent phrase in a different variety of the same language), not to give a similar, but different, phrase in the same variety of the same language...
:hmm:
American English is a pretty huge language though, with all the dialects, sociolects, and everything in between, so I'm sure you could understand, given the dialectal complexity of Irish. Should I just +Chicago next to any American variations, just like the dude here did with his variety of Swedish?
Eoghan wrote:Westrobothnian: Men va i heilviti jer jennars för naggerst? He jer Ukraina!
American English (en-us) Neapolitan from Molise (nap) N Italian (it) B2 Spanish (es) Portuguese (pt) French (fr) Greek (el) Albanian (sq) B1 Polish (pl) Romanian (ro) A2 Azerbaijani (az) Turkish (tr) Old English (en_old) A1
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Re: WTF is that?! Ukraine!

Postby hashi » 2011-05-08, 5:37

the Ukraine?
(en-nz)(ja)(sv)(it)(mi)(et)

Sono ancora qui (a volte), ma probabilmente non ti voglio parlare.

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Re: WTF is that?! Ukraine!

Postby Bubulus » 2011-05-08, 5:45

I must say it sounds pretty old-fashioned... Like calling Argentina "the Argentine". :P (They're called so because originally they were regions also identified by their landscape, but nowadays they're whole sovereign countries, and...)

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Re: WTF is that?! Ukraine!

Postby Bryon » 2011-05-08, 5:46

The Ukraine @ 2:45

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi9xzFIixSM

This has to be one of the only places I've heard it that way. Incidentally, Corner Gas is definitely the best comedy show from English-speaking Canada. :D
Main: [flag]fi[/flag] [flag]fr-qc[/flag] [flag]ru[/flag] [flag]es-mx[/flag]
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Re: WTF is that?! Ukraine!

Postby Michael » 2011-05-08, 5:55

hashi wrote:the Ukraine?
I've only now tooken the time to wonder about that strange phenomenon. The only non-compound country name which uses the definite article is "the Ukraine". I've never heard "The Ukraine" without the definite article though, and it sounds quite awkward without it.

Although I've done some research about that Friday night, and I see it stems from the poor grammar of Ukrainian-American scholars back near the turn of the last century, and can be considered quite rude nowadays by Ukrainians, as if calling the country borderlands.

Never knew that before Friday, by the way, and just want to take the time to apologize for any misunderstandings. The only issue now is getting my tongue used to the absence of the article :P
American English (en-us) Neapolitan from Molise (nap) N Italian (it) B2 Spanish (es) Portuguese (pt) French (fr) Greek (el) Albanian (sq) B1 Polish (pl) Romanian (ro) A2 Azerbaijani (az) Turkish (tr) Old English (en_old) A1
„Çdo njeri është peng i veprave të veta.‟
Every human being is hostage to their own deeds.

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Re: WTF is that?! Ukraine!

Postby hashi » 2011-05-08, 6:18

Michael wrote:
hashi wrote:the Ukraine?
The only non-compound country name which uses the definite article is "the Ukraine". I've never heard "The Ukraine" without the definite article though, and it sounds quite awkward without it.


What to do you mean by non-compound. Does the Netherlands count? Furthermore, I have never heard of the use of the definite article with Ukraine, it has always just been Ukraine as far as I am aware.
(en-nz)(ja)(sv)(it)(mi)(et)

Sono ancora qui (a volte), ma probabilmente non ti voglio parlare.

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Re: WTF is that?! Ukraine!

Postby Michael » 2011-05-08, 6:35

hashi wrote:What to do you mean by non-compound. Does the Netherlands count? Furthermore, I have never heard of the use of the definite article with Ukraine, it has always just been Ukraine as far as I am aware.
The Netherlands can count, but it is somewhat compound in nature. But this is still striking me as odd. I guess the use of the article in "the Ukraine" must be another of our American oddities.
American English (en-us) Neapolitan from Molise (nap) N Italian (it) B2 Spanish (es) Portuguese (pt) French (fr) Greek (el) Albanian (sq) B1 Polish (pl) Romanian (ro) A2 Azerbaijani (az) Turkish (tr) Old English (en_old) A1
„Çdo njeri është peng i veprave të veta.‟
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Re: WTF is that?! Ukraine!

Postby JackFrost » 2011-05-08, 8:48

As an American, I have never encountered the definite article with "Ukraine".

The Netherlands is a bit different because it means "the Lower Countries" since forever in English.
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Re: WTF is that?! Ukraine!

Postby DelBoy » 2011-05-08, 9:21

Michael wrote: I guess the use of the article in "the Ukraine" must be another of our American oddities.



Nope, "the Ukraine" is what I'd say too.
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Re: WTF is that?! Ukraine!

Postby Leviwosc » 2011-05-08, 9:55

In Dutch we used to say: de Oekraïne

We also used a definite article. Later I learnt this is probably because Ukraine happened to be just a region in the former Sovjet Union and it is apparently common to use a definite article with some region names. Although I'm not sure of this explanation.

In Dutch we officially don't use the definite article any more. Of course most people keep using the definite article in every day usage; we're used to it.

This is an explanation by the Dutch language magazine 'Onze Taal' about the name: 'Oekraïne'. Source: http://www.onzetaal.nl/advies/deoekraine.php

(De) Oekraïne?

Is Kiev de hoofdstad van Oekraïne of van de Oekraïne?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oekraïne kan zowel met als zonder lidwoord gebruikt worden. De voorkeur gaat uit naar het gebruik zonder lidwoord.

Oorspronkelijk is Oekraïne een streeknaam. Streeknamen komen soms mét en soms zónder lidwoord voor; zo is het de Veluwe en de Provence, met lidwoord, maar Twente en Lapland zonder. De aanduiding de Oekraïne hoort bij de eerste groep. Toen (de) Oekraïne in 1991 een onafhankelijk land werd, werd de streeknaam opeens ook de aanduiding voor het land. En landnamen worden in principe zónder lidwoord gebruikt. Vandaar dus Oekraïne.

Voorlopig bestaan het oude de Oekraïne en het nieuwe Oekraïne naast elkaar. We vermoeden dat uiteindelijk het lidwoordloze Oekraïne de overhand zal krijgen. Dit is in vergelijkbare gevallen namelijk ook gebeurd: we hebben het niet meer over de Libanon, de Sudan en de Congo, maar over Libanon, Sudan en Congo.

Hoewel sommige naslagwerken de Oekraïne al verouderd noemen, is dit niet in overeenstemming met de praktijk. Maar om recht te doen aan de onafhankelijke status van het land, verdient de aanduiding Oekraïne zoals gezegd de voorkeur.


Translation:

(The) Ukraine?

Is Kiev the capital of Ukraine or the Ukraine?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ukraine can be used with and without an article. It's preferred to use Ukraine without the article.

Originally Ukraine is a name of a region. Names of regions are sometimes with and sometimes without an article. E.g.: It's with an article in 'the Veluwe' (n.b. region in the Netherlands), and the Provence, but it's without an article in 'Twente' (n.b. region in the Netherlands) and Lapland. 'The Ukraine' belongs to the first group. (The) Ukraine became an independent country in 1991, the region name than became also the name of the country. In principle country names are used without an article. Thus that's why Ukraine.

For the time being the old 'the Ukraine' and the new 'Ukraine' are both used. We expect that 'Ukraine' without the article will become more common over time. This also happened with similar cases. We don't say: 'the Libanon', 'the Sudan' and 'the Congo', but: Libanon, Sudan and Congo.

However some resources define 'the Ukraine' as old-fashioned, does this claim not correspond with common practice. But to render justice to the country, 'Ukraine' is preferred.



P.s.: I think it would be good if in English 'Netherland' was just my country's name. The time of several low countries is over. On the other hand, the name: 'the Netherlands' is a bit special.
Last edited by Leviwosc on 2011-05-08, 11:04, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: WTF is that?! Ukraine!

Postby Bernard » 2011-05-08, 11:53

BTW same problem in Germany:

die Ukraine;

cf. der Iran, der Irak, but Pakistan, Afghanistan without article.

die Niederlande] official German name of our neighbouring country (enobled by Schiller’s Geschichte des Abfalls der Vereinigten Niederlande von der spanischen Regierung), but mostly you’ll hear Holland which I think isn’t correct…

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Re: WTF is that?! Ukraine!

Postby Eoghan » 2011-05-08, 12:16

Michael wrote:
DelBoy wrote:But... the point of the translations forum is to translate a phrase into different languages (or give an equivalent phrase in a different variety of the same language), not to give a similar, but different, phrase in the same variety of the same language...
:hmm:
American English is a pretty huge language though, with all the dialects, sociolects, and everything in between, so I'm sure you could understand, given the dialectal complexity of Irish. Should I just +Chicago next to any American variations, just like the dude here did with his variety of Swedish?
Eoghan wrote:Westrobothnian: Men va i heilviti jer jennars för naggerst? He jer Ukraina!


The dude would like to point out that Westrobothnian, together with most other northern dialects that fall under the umbrella term ‘bondska’ are considered distinct enough to be considered languages of their own. Cf. Kalix. If you wish me to stop adding Westrobothnian translations, I'd suggest that we replace all Danish/Swedish/Norwegian translations and refer to them as Scandinavian instead, as I can promise you that Swedes will have an easier time understanding a Norwegian from Oslo than a Westrobothnian from i.e. Lycksele if he decides to speak proper Westrobothnian, i.e. if he decides to do more than simply speak Swedish with a Westrobothnian accent.

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Re: WTF is that?! Ukraine!

Postby DelBoy » 2011-05-08, 12:26

Also, is American English that huge? Really? Surely there's more English dialectal/sociolectal diversity in the tiny islands of Ireland and Great Britain (or either one alone) than in America. And would the original phrase sound so out of place in Chicago that an alternative would be better?
The British Isles are awesome - I know, I live there - but Ireland is not a part of them. K thnx bai!

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Re: WTF is that?! Ukraine!

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2011-05-08, 13:03

Eoghan wrote:The dude would like to point out that Westrobothnian, together with most other northern dialects that fall under the umbrella term ‘bondska’ are considered distinct enough to be considered languages of their own. Cf. Kalix. If you wish me to stop adding Westrobothnian translations, I'd suggest that we replace all Danish/Swedish/Norwegian translations and refer to them as Scandinavian instead, as I can promise you that Swedes will have an easier time understanding a Norwegian from Oslo than a Westrobothnian from i.e. Lycksele if he decides to speak proper Westrobothnian, i.e. if he decides to do more than simply speak Swedish with a Westrobothnian accent.

I would like a flag for Westrobothnian. :) (Use any flag available.)

I do not understand the replacing argument. The languages (or dialects) are following certain different rules and are not interchangeable. I agree that it is wrong to talk about dialects of Swedish, they are Scandinavian dialects (e.g. Westrobothnian, or rather more particular, e.g. Umemål), but there are regiolects of Swedish (e.g. Swedish with a Westrobothnian accent).
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

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Re: WTF is that?! Ukraine!

Postby Leviwosc » 2011-05-08, 16:32

Bernard wrote:die Niederlande] official German name of our neighbouring country (enobled by Schiller’s Geschichte des Abfalls der Vereinigten Niederlande von der spanischen Regierung), but mostly you’ll hear Holland which I think isn’t correct…


It's indeed not correct. Holland is a western coastal region in the Netherlands, it consists out of two provinces: Noord-Holland and Zuid-Holland. This region is the most crowded region in the country.

Image

There are 10 other provinces in the Netherlands which do not belong to the region Holland. These provinces are: Fryslân, Groningen, Drenthe, Flevoland, Overijssel, Utrecht Gelderland, Zeeland, Noord-Brabant en Limburg.
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Re: WTF is that?! Ukraine!

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2011-05-08, 17:24

Leviwosc wrote:It's indeed not correct. Holland is a western coastal region in the Netherlands,

But general usage in languages is often "not correct".

Consider that Belgium really is a part of the area called "the Netherlands", and that the modern state of "the Netherlands" thus has wrongly appropriated that term for itself.

A similar case is the adjective Dutch, which is the same as Deutsch, and means "belonging to Germany" (or more originally "to the people") which now is wrongly used in the sense "non-Belgian Netherlandish".

None of the available terms seems correct. How frustrating. :silly:
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

Jag är rebell: jag sockrar teet, saltar maten, cyklar utan hjälm, och tänder glödlampor.
(Ovanstående var förut, nu försöker jag minska sockret och saltet, och har gett upp mejeriprodukter.)


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