Don't listen to your heart

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Ahendu
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Don't listen to your heart

Postby Ahendu » 2022-08-07, 22:13

Não ouve o seu coração que ele mente (Português)

Don't listen to your heart that it lies (English)
Talvez, pela circunstancial razão de ser humano, eu goste de palavras.

"A ausência destes sons que dão teu nome me faz tão solitário nesta terra..." - Pseudo-Eça de Queiroz

Ahendu
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Re: Don't listen to your heart

Postby Ahendu » 2022-08-10, 13:04

Não ouve o seu coração que ele mente (Português)
No escuches tu corazón que el miente (Español(?))
N'écoute pas ton coeur, qu'il ment (Français(?))

Don't listen to your heart that it lies (English)
Hör nicht auf dein Hexe, dass es lügt (German)

Kalbini dinleme o yalan söylüyor (Turkish - bad syntax?)
Kalbinin yalan söylediğini dinleme (Turkish(?))

Ani rehendu nde py'a ijapuha (Guarani(?))

मा शृणु तव हृदयं यत् मृषा वदति (Sanskrit(?))
(Maa shruva tava hrdayam yat mrshaa vadati)

به حرف دلت گوش نکن دروغ میگه (Persian(?))
(be harf delat gush nakon, derugh mige)

- To the words of your heart, don't give ears - this triple metaphor in persian sounds so funny :lol:
Talvez, pela circunstancial razão de ser humano, eu goste de palavras.

"A ausência destes sons que dão teu nome me faz tão solitário nesta terra..." - Pseudo-Eça de Queiroz

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Dormouse559
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Re: Don't listen to your heart

Postby Dormouse559 » 2022-08-21, 15:38

Correcting French and English. Portuguese’s strategy of marking a cause or reason with the basic subordinating conjunction is specific to it, and many languages do something different, such as using a dedicated conjunction (e.g. car, because).

Não ouve o seu coração que ele mente (Português)
No escuches tu corazón que el miente (Español(?))
N'écoute pas ton coeur, car il ment (Français)

Don't listen to your heart, because it lies (English)
Hör nicht auf dein Hexe, dass es lügt (German)

Kalbini dinleme o yalan söylüyor (Turkish - bad syntax?)
Kalbinin yalan söylediğini dinleme (Turkish(?))

Ani rehendu nde py'a ijapuha (Guarani(?))

मा शृणु तव हृदयं यत् मृषा वदति (Sanskrit(?))
(Maa shruva tava hrdayam yat mrshaa vadati)

به حرف دلت گوش نکن دروغ میگه (Persian(?))
(be harf delat gush nakon, derugh mige)
N'hésite pas à corriger mes erreurs.

h34
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Re: Don't listen to your heart

Postby h34 » 2022-08-21, 17:36

Dormouse559 wrote:[…] Portuguese’s strategy of marking a cause or reason with the basic subordinating conjunction is specific to it, and many languages do something different, such as using a dedicated conjunction (e.g. car, because).

+ German, following the same pattern (using the conjunction denn).

Não ouve o seu coração que ele mente (Português)
No escuches tu corazón que el miente (Español(?))
N'écoute pas ton coeur, car il ment (Français)

Don't listen to your heart, because it lies (English)
Hör nicht auf dein Herz, denn es lügt (German)

Kalbini dinleme o yalan söylüyor (Turkish - bad syntax?)
Kalbinin yalan söylediğini dinleme (Turkish(?))

Ani rehendu nde py'a ijapuha (Guarani(?))

मा शृणु तव हृदयं यत् मृषा वदति (Sanskrit(?))
(Maa shruva tava hrdayam yat mrshaa vadati)

به حرف دلت گوش نکن دروغ میگه (Persian(?))
(be harf delat gush nakon, derugh mige)

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Multiturquoise
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Re: Don't listen to your heart

Postby Multiturquoise » 2022-08-21, 20:07

Removing the incorrect Turkish translation

Não ouve o seu coração que ele mente (Português)
No escuches tu corazón que el miente (Español(?))
N'écoute pas ton coeur, car il ment (Français)

Don't listen to your heart, because it lies (English)
Hör nicht auf dein Herz, denn es lügt (German)

Kalbini dinleme, o yalan söylüyor (Turkish)

Ani rehendu nde py'a ijapuha (Guarani(?))

मा शृणु तव हृदयं यत् मृषा वदति (Sanskrit(?))
(Maa shruva tava hrdayam yat mrshaa vadati)

به حرف دلت گوش نکن دروغ میگه (Persian(?))
(be harf delat gush nakon, derugh mige)
native: (tr)
advanced: (en) (el)
intermediate: (fr) (de)
current focuses: (sq)

Linguaphile
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Re: Don't listen to your heart

Postby Linguaphile » 2022-08-21, 20:59

+ new Spanish translation, Estonian, Finnish, Votic, Võro, Hmong. Changed language names to their English versions for consistency's sake since only Portuguese, Spanish and French were listed by their autonyms.

Não ouve o seu coração que ele mente (Portuguese)
No escuches a tu corazón porque miente (Spanish)
N'écoute pas ton coeur, car il ment (French)

Don't listen to your heart, because it lies (English)
Hör nicht auf dein Herz, denn es lügt (German)

Kalbini dinleme, o yalan söylüyor (Turkish)

Ani rehendu nde py'a ijapuha (Guarani(?))

मा शृणु तव हृदयं यत् मृषा वदति (Sanskrit(?))
(Maa shruva tava hrdayam yat mrshaa vadati)

به حرف دلت گوش نکن دروغ میگه (Persian(?))
(be harf delat gush nakon, derugh mige)

Ära kuula oma südant, sest see valetab. (Estonian)
Älä kuuntele sydäntäsi, koska se valehtelee. (Finnish :?: )
Elä kuultaa süäs, etti se petteeb. (Votic :?: )
Kullõlgu-uiq uma süänd, selle śoo võlsś. (Võro :?: )

Tsis txhob mloog koj lub siab, vim nws dag. (Hmong Daw)
Tsi xob noog koj lub sab, vim nwg dlaag. (Hmong Njua)
Zhit dek nongs gaox lob shab, wef nil dlangs. (Hmong Dou :?:)

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Naava
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Re: Don't listen to your heart

Postby Naava » 2022-08-21, 22:00

Correcting Finnish a bit. I think sillä is a better choice here and I hope nobody cares to ask why because that'd be a difficult question to answer... :lol:

I also tried my best to translate this to South Ostrobothnian, but that's hard because the whole sentence structure feels a bit unnatural to me. If I actually said this to someone, I'd probably say something like ei sun kannata kuunnella syräntäs (you shouldn't listen to your heart, it's not worth it for you to listen to your heart) but I didn't want to change the original sentence that much. Also, I decided to show the assimilation in kun to kus (to match the following word that begins with an S). The spelling hasn't been standardised, so you can see lots of variation in how and when assimilation is marked, and in the end it's up to the writer to make their own choices. I've usually left it unmarked (like in the phrase kuuntele syräntäs, which is actually pronounced as /'ku:nteles 'syɾæntæs/) but I thought I should show it here because you can also hear the same word pronounced as /ku/ and /kun/ by different speakers and in different dialects.


Não ouve o seu coração que ele mente (Portuguese)
No escuches a tu corazón porque miente (Spanish)
N'écoute pas ton coeur, car il ment (French)

Don't listen to your heart, because it lies (English)
Hör nicht auf dein Herz, denn es lügt (German)

Kalbini dinleme, o yalan söylüyor (Turkish)

Ani rehendu nde py'a ijapuha (Guarani(?))

मा शृणु तव हृदयं यत् मृषा वदति (Sanskrit(?))
(Maa shruva tava hrdayam yat mrshaa vadati)

به حرف دلت گوش نکن دروغ میگه (Persian(?))
(be harf delat gush nakon, derugh mige)

Ära kuula oma südant, sest see valetab. (Estonian)
Älä kuuntele sydäntäsi, sillä se valehtelee. (Finnish)
Älä kuuntele syräntäs kus se valehteloo. (Finnish, South Ostrobothnian dialect)
Elä kuultaa süäs, etti se petteeb. (Votic :?: )
Kullõlgu-uiq uma süänd, selle śoo võlsś. (Võro :?: )

Tsis txhob mloog koj lub siab, vim nws dag. (Hmong Daw)
Tsi xob noog koj lub sab, vim nwg dlaag. (Hmong Njua)
Zhit dek nongs gaox lob shab, wef nil dlangs. (Hmong Dou :?:)

Linguaphile
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Re: Don't listen to your heart

Postby Linguaphile » 2022-08-21, 23:00

Naava wrote:Correcting Finnish a bit. I think sillä is a better choice here and I hope nobody cares to ask why because that'd be a difficult question to answer... :lol:

Haha, I would have asked you, but since you said you hope no one does.... LOL. Actually, it's interesting because it's cognate to Votic selle, used the same way. Wiktionary says that sillä justifies the main clause rather than being the reason for it. So, I suppose that's like saying it's not a cause/effect relationship (the lying doesn't cause you to not listen to your heart, the lying is just the justification for deciding not to listen to it). That seems to fit here.
I agree about it not being the most natural sentence for some of these languages. I think it's a line from a song (in Portuguese).
By the way, I am surprised by syräntäs. Is d to r a common change in South Ostrobothnian? I know, for example, Võro, Votic, and Ingrian drop the d, but I hadn't seen it change to r before. :mrgreen:



Não ouve o seu coração que ele mente (Portuguese)
No escuches a tu corazón porque miente (Spanish)
N'écoute pas ton coeur, car il ment (French)

Don't listen to your heart, because it lies (English)
Hör nicht auf dein Herz, denn es lügt (German)

Kalbini dinleme, o yalan söylüyor (Turkish)

Ani rehendu nde py'a ijapuha (Guarani(?))

मा शृणु तव हृदयं यत् मृषा वदति (Sanskrit(?))
(Maa shruva tava hrdayam yat mrshaa vadati)

به حرف دلت گوش نکن دروغ میگه (Persian(?))
(be harf delat gush nakon, derugh mige)

Ära kuula oma südant, sest see valetab. (Estonian)
Älä kuuntele sydäntäsi, sillä se valehtelee. (Finnish)
Älä kuuntele syräntäs kus se valehteloo. (Finnish, South Ostrobothnian dialect)
Elä kuultaa süäs, etti se petteeb. (Votic :?: )
Kullõlgu-uiq uma süänd, selle śoo võlsś. (Võro :?: )

Tsis txhob mloog koj lub siab, vim nws dag. (Hmong Daw)
Tsi xob noog koj lub sab, vim nwg dlaag. (Hmong Njua)
Zhit dek nongs gaox lob shab, wef nil dlangs. (Hmong Dou :?:)

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sa wulfs
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Re: Don't listen to your heart

Postby sa wulfs » 2022-08-22, 13:37

Dormouse559 wrote:Correcting French and English. Portuguese’s strategy of marking a cause or reason with the basic subordinating conjunction is specific to it, and many languages do something different, such as using a dedicated conjunction (e.g. car, because).

How marked/unmarked is this in Portuguese? Is it more colloquial than using porque? The current Spanish translation is completely correct, but my first instinct was to use que rather than porque just like in Portuguese: "No escuches a tu corazón, que miente" (the comma is important; also I think I'd be more likely to say something like "No hagas caso a tu corazón, que miente", which is perhaps very slightly less formal, but hey).
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Linguaphile
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Re: Don't listen to your heart

Postby Linguaphile » 2022-08-22, 13:43

sa wulfs wrote:
Dormouse559 wrote:Correcting French and English. Portuguese’s strategy of marking a cause or reason with the basic subordinating conjunction is specific to it, and many languages do something different, such as using a dedicated conjunction (e.g. car, because).

How marked/unmarked is this in Portuguese? Is it more colloquial than using porque? The current Spanish translation is completely correct, but my first instinct was to use que rather than porque just like in Portuguese: "No escuches a tu corazón, que miente" (the comma is important; also I think I'd be more likely to say something like "No hagas caso a tu corazón, que miente", which is perhaps very slightly less formal, but hey).

Interesting. To me using que in Spanish sounds fine too, but to me it sounds like something I'd use in poetry or song lyrics (which I suppose is entirely appropriate here anyway).

aldar
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Re: Don't listen to your heart

Postby aldar » 2022-08-22, 13:51

+ Czech, Slovak

Não ouve o seu coração que ele mente (Portuguese)
No escuches a tu corazón porque miente (Spanish)
N'écoute pas ton coeur, car il ment (French)

Don't listen to your heart, because it lies (English)
Hör nicht auf dein Herz, denn es lügt (German)

Neposlouchej své srdce, protože lže. (Czech)
Nepočúvaj svoje srdce, lebo klame. (Slovak)

Kalbini dinleme, o yalan söylüyor (Turkish)

Ani rehendu nde py'a ijapuha (Guarani(?))

मा शृणु तव हृदयं यत् मृषा वदति (Sanskrit(?))
(Maa shruva tava hrdayam yat mrshaa vadati)

به حرف دلت گوش نکن دروغ میگه (Persian(?))
(be harf delat gush nakon, derugh mige)

Ära kuula oma südant, sest see valetab. (Estonian)
Älä kuuntele sydäntäsi, sillä se valehtelee. (Finnish)
Älä kuuntele syräntäs kus se valehteloo. (Finnish, South Ostrobothnian dialect)
Elä kuultaa süäs, etti se petteeb. (Votic :?: )
Kullõlgu-uiq uma süänd, selle śoo võlsś. (Võro :?: )

Tsis txhob mloog koj lub siab, vim nws dag. (Hmong Daw)
Tsi xob noog koj lub sab, vim nwg dlaag. (Hmong Njua)
Zhit dek nongs gaox lob shab, wef nil dlangs. (Hmong Dou :?:)[/quote]

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Naava
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Re: Don't listen to your heart

Postby Naava » 2022-08-27, 13:30

Linguaphile wrote:
Naava wrote:Correcting Finnish a bit. I think sillä is a better choice here and I hope nobody cares to ask why because that'd be a difficult question to answer... :lol:

Haha, I would have asked you, but since you said you hope no one does.... LOL. Actually, it's interesting because it's cognate to Votic selle, used the same way. Wiktionary says that sillä justifies the main clause rather than being the reason for it. So, I suppose that's like saying it's not a cause/effect relationship (the lying doesn't cause you to not listen to your heart, the lying is just the justification for deciding not to listen to it). That seems to fit here.

Something like that, yes. :)

By the way, I am surprised by syräntäs. Is d to r a common change in South Ostrobothnian? I know, for example, Võro, Votic, and Ingrian drop the d, but I hadn't seen it change to r before. :mrgreen:

Yes and no! It's not a change from d to r but a change from ð to r. Proto-Finnic used to have /ð/ as the weak grade of /t/, but the sound eventually developed into
- /r/ or /ɾ/ in Western Finnish dialects
- remained as /ð/ until the 1800s or so in a few South Western dialects, until it was replaced by /r/
- /l/ in Tavastian dialects, until replaced by /r/ because of the pressure from other dialects
- ∅ in Eastern and Northern dialects (this is what happened in Karelian, Võro, Votic, Ingrian, and Estonian, too)

If you're curious, you can hear an old recording of a person from South West who uses /ð/ here. See the samples 3/12 or 5/12, for example. You can listen to them by clicking "kuuntele" above the text. Here's an example of someone with /l/: "oltiin että lählettiin (lähdettiin) aikasim metteen", "Heiniä kumminki tuotiiv vaikka ne elellisenäki (edellisenäkin) päivänäk", "heinänteko velettiin (vedettiin) siks päivee että heiniä velettiij ja (vedettiin ja)", "tapaa noulatettiiv (noudatettiin) vaan", "päivällä, tos, yhlen (yhden) aikaaj ja siittä niin sittel lakattiin", "puhlistettiin (puhdistettiin) kaikki".

Because Agricola (the first person to develop a form of written Finnish) based his orthography on the South Western dialects, he needed a way to write the phoneme /ð/. He chose to mark it with <d> and <dh>. Later on, when the phoneme had been lost in all dialects and nobody knew how <d> should be read, people chose to follow the orthographies of other languages, such as Swedish, where <d> was /d/. This became the standard way to read it in written Finnish. Fun fact: native speakers struggled with the sound as late as in the 1950s. Some people hypercorrected /r/ to /d/ (e.g. eräs -> *edäs) since it isn't obvious which /r/ should be /d/ and which /r/ in standard Finnish. Others read all <d>s as /t/ (I have even personally met a man who pronounced radio as ratio), like the main character in these much-loved old Finnish films:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIt4rEIFKzk
0:58 "Siis minun on ehtottomasti (pro ehdottomasti) saatava työtä..."
2:15 "onko mahtollista (pro mahdollista) ottaa..."

Notice also 1:41 "huomenna on vasta kuuestoista (pro kuudestoista) päivä", where he has ∅.

https://youtu.be/oVFkAzuEVuM
0:52 "kahtesti (pro kahdesti)"
1:25 "vai biljartia (pro biljardia)..."
3:52 "se on vähä etessä (pro edessä)"
4:24 "mitäs meikäläisen sit pitäis tehtä (pro tehdä)"

(Both clips have English subtitles available if you want to watch them.)

Today, people read <d> as /d/, although I think it's less clearly voiced than in e.g. English (but it could be I just don't pay attention to it since I don't need to hear the difference in Finnish). Speakers from West Finland might use /ɾ/ instead even when reading, especially in word medial positions. In speech, ∅ has become increasingly common even in regions it wasn't used before, but /d/ and /r/ are also common.

Linguaphile
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Re: Don't listen to your heart

Postby Linguaphile » 2022-08-27, 16:13

Naava wrote:
By the way, I am surprised by syräntäs. Is d to r a common change in South Ostrobothnian? I know, for example, Võro, Votic, and Ingrian drop the d, but I hadn't seen it change to r before. :mrgreen:

Yes and no! It's not a change from d to r but a change from ð to r. Proto-Finnic used to have /ð/ as the weak grade of /t/, but the sound eventually developed into
- /r/ or /ɾ/ in Western Finnish dialects
- remained as /ð/ until the 1800s or so in a few South Western dialects, until it was replaced by /r/
- /l/ in Tavastian dialects, until replaced by /r/ because of the pressure from other dialects
- ∅ in Eastern and Northern dialects (this is what happened in Karelian, Võro, Votic, Ingrian, and Estonian, too)

If you're curious, you can hear an old recording of a person from South West who uses /ð/ [...]

Thanks for posting all of that! It's really fascinating.
By the way, after I said I hadn't seen a change from d to r before, I realized it happens in Saami, too. (I posted it here with Uralic words for "heart" as some sources say both Proto-Saamic *čëδëk "through" and Proto-Saami *čëδēm "heart" are both derived from Proto-Uralic *śüδäme "heart".)
Anyway, it has the same historical /ð/ becoming /d/ in some varieties and /r/ in others (Pite Saami has both /r/ and /d/, and /ð/ is preserved in Northern and Ume Saami):
/ð/ in North Saami: čađa through
/ð/ in Ume Saami: tjađ'đa through
/d/ in Lule Saami: tjadá through
/d/ in Pite Saami: tjadá through
/r/ in Pite Saami: tjará through
/r/ in South Saami: tjïrreh through

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Re: Don't listen to your heart

Postby Multiturquoise » 2022-08-30, 15:26

Romanian

Não ouve o seu coração que ele mente (Portuguese)
No escuches a tu corazón porque miente (Spanish)
N'écoute pas ton cœur, car il ment (French)
Nu-ți asculta inima pentru că minte. (Romanian)

Don't listen to your heart, because it lies (English)
Hör nicht auf dein Herz, denn es lügt (German)

Neposlouchej své srdce, protože lže. (Czech)
Nepočúvaj svoje srdce, lebo klame. (Slovak)

मा शृणु तव हृदयं यत् मृषा वदति (Sanskrit(?))
(Maa shruva tava hrdayam yat mrshaa vadati)

به حرف دلت گوش نکن دروغ میگه (Persian(?))
(be harf delat gush nakon, derugh mige)

Ära kuula oma südant, sest see valetab. (Estonian)
Älä kuuntele sydäntäsi, sillä se valehtelee. (Finnish)
Älä kuuntele syräntäs kus se valehteloo. (Finnish, South Ostrobothnian dialect)
Elä kuultaa süäs, etti se petteeb. (Votic :?: )
Kullõlgu-uiq uma süänd, selle śoo võlsś. (Võro :?: )

Tsis txhob mloog koj lub siab, vim nws dag. (Hmong Daw)
Tsi xob noog koj lub sab, vim nwg dlaag. (Hmong Njua)
Zhit dek nongs gaox lob shab, wef nil dlangs. (Hmong Dou :?:)

Kalbini dinleme, o yalan söylüyor (Turkish)

Ani rehendu nde py'a ijapuha (Guarani(?))
native: (tr)
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intermediate: (fr) (de)
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