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Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Posted: 2018-11-07, 8:00
by langmon
A pattern related to non-verbal interactions: Always Seeming To Be Staring When Looking At Anyone

Even if not everyone would believe it, there are people who always would seem to be staring when looking about anyone, even if it is about (it should go without saying that I am not implying anything beyond my very literal words right now) keeping eye contact only because of having a conversation.

This is because some people are (even if it could sound kinda strange) unable to use any other "gaze" (could also be a bit of a misnomer, thus using quotation marks, I mean the "way of looking at someone").

What can those people do to clarify those matters? It wouldn't be that easy to tell every person they meet on any occasion something like, "this is the only way I am able to look at anyone". In addition, this also easily could be misinterpreted as ... something.

And what can those being "stared on" do to realize that such a "gaze" doesn't necessarily mean what they commonly would associate with it?

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Posted: 2018-11-07, 8:20
by langmon
Pattern of behavior: Considering An Apology That Also Contains A Partial Justification As Insincere

Some people would apologize to someone who has been hurt by them, but at the same time also include a partial justification of what they did. They possibly could do so because they wanted to clarify that, while they truly feel sorry for what has been caused by their actions, even if they weren't aware of the possible consequences, it also wasn't entirely black/white-ish.

Among their reasons for doing so is:

- They want to remind others that there are people who perceive some things differently than they do. If they wouldn't try to remind them, it also could appear that they (i.e. the persons apologizing to other persons) did something much more severe than what they actually did. So they'd also like to make that clear.

- They also could want to remind others that, while they fully acknowledge that they could have done things in a better way, the others also could try to be more aware of the fact that not everyone sticks to every single of those "Wide-Spread Common Sense Ideas That Nobody Could Even Theoretically Have A Different Perception On". In addition to the fact that not everyone even is aware of all of them.

Again, this log is about analyzing communication and factual statements, not about even trying to offend anyone by anything that (theoretically) could be hidden between the lines (but it isn't). One of my most major reasons for even starting this log was and still is that there are many things I either need to learn or need to learn more about them. And one of my most major motivations for doing so is that I do care about the feelings of others, too.

Some more reasons for some people possibly combining an apology with a partial justification?

And what about some reasons for "why do many people consider an apology of that type as insincere"?

Again, even if I am repeating myself (but I couldn't expect everyone reading any post of this log to also read the first post, too), this isn't about "right or wrong" discussions, but about taking a close look at communication, even about taking something like a not-too-far-from-microscopical look at it, too.

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Posted: 2018-11-07, 8:35
by langmon
Cultural pattern: Not Drinking Tea Without Sugar And Also Not Wanting Others To Do So In Front Of Them, Or Even When One Is Alone, Too


This one is a pattern related to culture (although it also can be about one's personal taste only).

For those of you who just might be a bit unfamiliar with this log :), it is all about optimizing communication. This includes trying to know the exact reasons for a great multitude of behavioral and cultural patterns. Needless to say (or maybe not needless to some of you :)), this log isn't about offending anyone, including, but not limited to, those of you who dislike drinking tea without sugar.

The above title consists of three parts:
Not Drinking Tea Without Sugar
And Also Not Wanting Others To Do So In Front Of Them,
Or Even When One Is Alone, Too (this one means that some even dislike the idea of anyone whom they know drinking tea without sugar while they are absent)

What are the possible rather exact and precise reasons for any of this, beyond simply saying "it is because of culture"?

And what can those who prefer drinking tea without sugar do when they (at least theoretically) would still think that they have a reason to do so in front of others who dislike it?

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Posted: 2018-11-07, 8:40
by langmon
Pattern of behavior: Preferring Shallowness And Not Wanting To Look At Anything Below The Surface

Some prefer shallowness and do not want to look at anything below the surface.

This is of course connected to another pattern which has been mentioned before, and it is Considering Things As What They Seem At First Glance.

But it wouldn't necessarily be required to read that other post, too, for the sake of thinking of this one or replying.

Why exactly do they prefer shallowness and not looking at anything below the surface? Time? The desire of simplicity? Anything else?

Side note: by "shallow" I mean the opposite of "deep" only. This log isn't about my POVs (points of view) on whether I consider shallowness a good thing or not, but about examining "All Things Communication" using the best magnifying glasses (yes, plural) available.

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Posted: 2018-11-07, 8:45
by langmon
Way of speech: Intentionally Switching To A Certain Dialect Such As Caribbean Or African English

Disclaimer :): This is something I wouldn't be doing unless I know that the other person appreciates it. It easily can feel as if one would want to offend the others, even if it is done because of, as a matter of fact, really liking Many Things Caribbean and Many Things Africa.

What are the reasons of those who would at least theoretically want to switch to a certain dialect, other than what I just mentioned?

What are the reasons of those natives who speak that very dialect being, in certain situations, easily offended by a non-native switching to their way of speech?

And what can someone who would like to switch because of appreciating certain things do in order to speak that way while also not offending anyone?

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Posted: 2018-11-07, 8:49
by langmon
Pattern of behavior: Stubbornness

How to handle other people's stubbornness?

And how can those who have this attribute themselves handle their own stubbornness, as long as it still is there, when talking to others?

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Posted: 2018-11-07, 8:53
by langmon
Pattern of behavior: Taking Certain Things For Granted

Why do people take certain things for granted even if sometimes there is no reason for them doing so in reality?

And how to handle some rather difficult situations where others take certain things for granted when one himself/herself realizes that there really is no actual reason for themselves doing so?

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Posted: 2018-11-07, 8:59
by langmon
Pattern of behavior: Considering The Truth About Certain Actions As Something That Is Socially Constructed Only


This pattern needs a bit of an explanation.

There are people who consider the truth about anything as whatever the vast majority agrees upon. So they consider it to be socially constructed, rather than something that is connected to what some others consider logical conclusions.

What are the reasons for considering the truth about anything as something that is socially constructed, as something that solely depends on the majority's stance, and as something that could become falsehood any time soon if the majority's view changes?

This is about ideas like "it is fully appropriate and correct to eat bread with butter, but it is a plain no-no to eat bread with mashed bananas. Whoever even thinks of possibly considering to doubt this Common Sense Fact cannot even be called a normal human being". (Nothing hidden between the lines, as usual... :) :yep: :ohwell: :wink:)

[EDIT: Right now, I realized that these smileys can give some of you the impression of myself intending the opposite of what I actually wrote. But it isn't like this. And even if some, again, could even be more convinced of what they already were thinking because I negated once again that it was meant this way, well... it isn't possible for any of us to express ourselves in a way that no-one ever could possibly misunderstand. Also, what I mentioned right now is about another pattern that I'd like to cover very soon, too. It is about interpreting something some persons state as "they say it like this, but in reality it is about its very opposite meaning".]

I do know that I am repeating myself by mentioning the following. But as I also already pointed out, I couldn't expect everyone to always read or recall the first post, too. It would be entirely Outside Of This Log's Scope to discuss whether the above mentioned pattern is right or wrong, appropriate or inappropriate. This thread is about observations related to communication, and also about discussing the reasons for certain patterns of behavior.

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Posted: 2018-11-07, 9:21
by langmon
Way of speech: Slightly "Deviating" From The Common Way Of Combining Some Words

There are persons who sometimes like to verbally spice up their conversations a bit using combinations of certain words that aren't entirely every-day-ish.

Example:
Calling a cup of sugarcane mixed with some lemon juice a Small Fountain Of Flowing Natural Sugar. (But this pattern isn't specifically about Capitalizing Every Noun In An English Phrase. That already has been covered elsewhere).

- How is this pattern perceived by others?

- How do those who use this pattern themselves perceive it?

- To what extent can it cause some possible misunderstandings, what are they, and why?

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Posted: 2018-11-07, 9:30
by langmon
Pattern of behavior: Stating That What Someone Wrote Clearly Means The Opposite Of Its Literal Meaning And There Is Nothing More To Say About It, Period

This pattern doesn't need too much of an explanation, I'd guess.
What I just said was about its meaning.
But as for the underlying reasons, we really can take a very, very look at them.

What are they?

And what can someone do to at least majorly reduce the possibility of his words being (factual statement only) misinterpreted?

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Posted: 2018-11-07, 12:44
by langmon
A direct link list to the topics already covered up to now (33, not counting sub-topics):

Introduction
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140#p1123387

Some starting thoughts to "get the stone rolling"
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140#p1123388

"you people" vs. "you all"
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140#p1123390

Some say that all that matters about communication is what the recipient understands
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140#p1123403

Follow-up to the "Some say that all that matters about communication is what the recipient understands" post
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140#p1123443

Some additional thoughts on that
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140#p1123445

Sometimes very obvious things have to be mentioned in order to think about something beyond them.
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140#p1123494

Pattern of behavior: Considering Things As What They Seem At First Glance
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140#p1123495

Some news: Things already are starting to become more clear to me once again.
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140&start=20#p1123497

Comparing learning more about communication to learning more about any other (spoken/written) language, and also to ISL/International Sign Language [this post also contains something that already is out of date about the specific subforum I initially put the thread in, but the rest still is very Not At All Out Of Date]
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140&start=20#p1123504

This could become a log with much more silent than responding readers. :)
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140&start=20#p1123509

Pattern of behavior: Considering All The World A Stage
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140&start=20#p1123565

The language of the heart
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140&start=20#p1123583

Yes I do know that this thread is rather new, but up to now, there wasn't as much feedback as I could have expected.
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140&start=20#p1123594

I still definitely plan to include a certain number of questions in most, if not all, of my posts in this thread. However, there has been a shift of some kind.
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140&start=20#p1123606

Pattern of behavior: Not Believing Someone Who Denies Multiple Times That He Did Something
In addition, something else: a major clarification on what this log is about and what is entirely off-topic.

https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140&start=20#p1123611

Way of written speech: Capitalizing All Words In An English Phrase
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140&start=20#p1123620

Pattern of behavior: Saying "I'll do it later" or "I'll do it tomorrow", but wanting to say "I'll never do it"
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140&start=20#p1123622

Pattern of behavior: Outruling The Possibility Of Someone Forgetting Something That Is Important To Him/Her
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140&start=20#p1123623

Pattern of behavior: Not Doing What One Personally Would Like To Do Because Of Something Called "Political Correctness"
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140&start=20#p1123624

Pattern of behavior: Speaking Like A Kid Sometimes
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140&start=20#p1123625

Pattern of behavior: Always Blaming The Others Only But Not Oneself
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140&start=20#p1123626

Pattern of behavior: Expecting Everyone To Act Entirely "Mainstreamish" Just Like "Everyone Else Does It, Too"
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140&start=20#p1123627

A pattern related to non-verbal interactions: Always Seeming To Be Staring When Looking At Anyone
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140&start=40#p1123628

Pattern of behavior: Considering An Apology That Also Contains A Partial Justification As Insincere
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140&start=40#p1123629

Cultural pattern: Not Drinking Tea Without Sugar And Also Not Wanting Others To Do So In Front Of Them, Or Even When One Is Alone, Too
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140&start=40#p1123630

Pattern of behavior: Preferring Shallowness And Not Wanting To Look At Anything Below The Surface
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140&start=40#p1123631

Way of speech: Intentionally Switching To A Certain Dialect Such As Caribbean Or African English
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140&start=40#p1123632

Pattern of behavior: Stubbornness
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140&start=40#p1123633

Pattern of behavior: Taking Certain Things For Granted
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140&start=40#p1123634

Pattern of behavior: Considering The Truth About Certain Actions As Something That Is Socially Constructed Only
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140&start=40#p1123635

Way of speech: Slightly "Deviating" From The Common Way Of Combining Some Words
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140&start=40#p1123638

Pattern of behavior: Stating That What Someone Wrote Clearly Means The Opposite Of Its Literal Meaning And There Is Nothing More To Say About It, Period
https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56140&start=40#p1123640

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Posted: 2018-11-07, 14:38
by langmon
First real-life communication example being mentioned here (even if this one is related to authentical online conversations)! I have recently been "trolling" :D two of this forum's mods. (In reality, it was about something possibly funny only).

First of all, when mentioning any real-life examples, they can be about any person. But in this case, as I just said in the title, it was about me. If there even is the slightest misunderstanding :), it wasn't about the usual kind of trolling.

Whatever anyone says to me in a PM is part of a personal message to me. I don't publish other people's PMs even in an anonymized fashion. And I also simply don't quote anything that I, myself, wrote in a PM if it contains anything that even indirectly mentions the other person's sayings. Also, especially for the purposes of this post, I am not even quoting what I said myself, but re-writing it from memory.

Having said all of that, if the two mods whom I sent it to still wouldn't like my own sayings being mentioned for any reason, they simply can PM me for the purpose of myself removing whatever they would like to be removed. But I hope that I was able to let them know that this simply is about real-life examples.

["Itsy Bitsy Spider" Size Disclaimer: I do not feel like praising either myself or others for some reasons that could take a long time to write down.] And I also would like to let all the others reading it that those two mods are among the people I am really happy to be able to stay in touch with. Also I'd like you to know that these two messages weren't at all my first ones to them. Even I :D fully realize that this could be rather problematic, even if one makes it clear what it is all about, but still...

Also, all of you reading this thread, including de two a-dem [the two of them], can comment on these examples.

For those of you who do not know, snake oil means something that is useless, but heavily over-prized. It isn't literally fat of snakes/serpents. I first mentioned it in my main log.

SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:Also there is something you (not just one person, but you as in "you all") didn't know yet about that SGP guy.

He didn't come here to practice languages only.

So what is his second reason?
Has he got 353.43 liters of snake oil he would like to sell?
No, not at all.

Then what about 231.15?
No, because... he simply hasn't got any.

Instead, the second reason is...
major "spoiler" ahead...

.

.

.

.

The second reason is practice of some social abilities of himself.

And yes, I do know very well that there are certain limits of doing so online.
But speaking of this matter, I only consider the forum activity as something additional.


Now for the first "trolling" example. One of the mods told me something about the way spammers would get banned, because this was part of a certain topic (which I am not mentioning) we spoke about. Now here is what I told him.

SomehowGeekyPolyglot; rewritten from memory wrote: Maybe you already realized that my signature contains a certain link. There, I denied having approximately 300 liters of snake oil. But what if I only claimed not having that amount because I in reality even have got thousands I'd like to sell? :whistle:


(At this time, there was a different link in my signature. It pointed to a certain post that I already quoted inside of the one you are reading right now. You know... about those approx. 300 liters of snake oil I do not have.)

And this is how the second one had been "trolled". In his case, it even was an entire PM solely dedicated to Acting As If I Really Had Troll Ancestors. But even in that PM I avoided anything that would really be a lie or anything like that. Instead, I used questions like, "what you like to buy some snake oil" that can be considered as something merely interrogative, too. Once again, I am not even quoting that PM, but re-writing it from memory, and it definitely (just as my "meaning only" quote above) contains a different wording. But it still should give you an idea of what happened.

SomehowGeekyPolyglot; rewritten from memory wrote:Subject: This Message Is Not Spam

Hi there,
This message may come to you in utmost surprise.
But I still would like to ask you if you would like to buy some snake oil.
Best regards,
SGP, the user who neither lives in your country nor has got any snake oil to sell

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Posted: 2018-11-07, 17:29
by linguoboy
SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:Some people tend to capitalize all words in an English phrase sometimes.
This is being done through various reasons, one of them simply is the desire to emphasize something.

"Emphasis" covers a lot of cases and there are several methods for adding it: ALL CAPS, italicising, bolding, underlining, exclamation points!!!, etc. So the question really is: What forms of emphasis do people prefer Capitalising Every Word for? And it's a challenging question to answer because--as far as I'm aware--there isn't a lot of empirical research into the topic and--as you note--different people use this method in different circumstances.

One frequent pattern seems to be putting emphasis on the fact that one is invoking a recognised concept. Slogans, for instance:

"As the Trump administration sputters and his plan to Make America Great Again looks like it's going nowhere..." (Forbes)

Here the writer is drawing attention to the fact that the words "Make America Great Again" are not their own but a slogan promoted by Trump. Putting scare quotes around the words would have had a similar effect but would also have made the phrase look like a simple quote from him rather than a fixed phrase that was the signature line of his campaign.

A more subtle example:

"Spitting on the street is Just Not Done."

Here we're not dealing with a political slogan but with a particular turn of phrase that is associated with a certain group (i.e. the kind of people who talk what is and isn't admissible "in polite society"). Again, the capitalisation has the effect of distancing the speaker from the remarks; in speech this might done through adopting a somewhat affected intonation that mimicked a snobby form of speech.

One last example:

"On one side are those who've often been dismissed as mere NIMBY-ists, the classic Not In My Backyard types adverse to most newer development[.]" (Curbed Boston)

Again, we're dealing with a fixed phrase, one which is common enough that it is often reduced to an acronym. And again, scare quotes would be another option here, as would hyphenation (i.e. "the classic not-in-my-backyard types").

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Posted: 2018-11-07, 17:56
by langmon
linguoboy wrote:
SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:Some people tend to capitalize all words in an English phrase sometimes.
This is being done through various reasons, one of them simply is the desire to emphasize something.

"Emphasis" covers a lot of cases and there are several methods for adding it: ALL CAPS, italicising, bolding, underlining, exclamation points!!!, etc.


Yes, surely all of this is emphasis. Just added those to my queue, too (the queue of what I plan to write about in this log).

linguoboy wrote: So the question really is: What forms of emphasis do people prefer Capitalising Every Word for? And it's a challenging question to answer because--as far as I'm aware--there isn't a lot of empirical research into the topic and--as you note--different people use this method in different circumstances.


Again, I agree. And I still felt like covering it in the log, because I am at least trying to do the maximal break-down of communication possible within the scope of this log. [Side note for some, not including linguoboy: still talking about "break-down" in the meaning of analysis and taking a closer look at something].

linguoboy wrote:One frequent pattern seems to be putting emphasis on the fact that one is invoking a recognised concept. Slogans, for instance:

"As the Trump administration sputters and his plan to Make America Great Again looks like it's going nowhere..." (Forbes)

Here the writer is drawing attention to the fact that the words "Make America Great Again" are not their own but a slogan promoted by Trump. Putting scare quotes around the words would have had a similar effect but would also have made the phrase look like a simple quote from him rather than a fixed phrase that was the signature line of his campaign.


Yes, that is a pattern too. Or also a sub-pattern even (sometimes pointing out the rather obvious ;), but doing so did aid in writing this log for more than one reason).

linguoboy wrote:A more subtle example:

"Spitting on the street is Just Not Done."

Here we're not dealing with a political slogan but with a particular turn of phrase that is associated with a certain group (i.e. the kind of people who talk what is and isn't admissible "in polite society"). Again, the capitalisation has the effect of distancing the speaker from the remarks; in speech this might done through adopting a somewhat affected intonation that mimicked a snobby form of speech.


Now something like this, because of being subtle, is especially [informational notice only] among those Communication Bigger Picture Mosaic Stones that this quest of mine (and also others, generally speaking) is about.

linguoboy wrote:One last example:

"On one side are those who've often been dismissed as mere NIMBY-ists, the classic Not In My Backyard types adverse to most newer development[.]" (Curbed Boston)

Again, we're dealing with a fixed phrase, one which is common enough that it is often reduced to an acronym. And again, scare quotes would be another option here, as would hyphenation (i.e. "the classic not-in-my-backyard types").


If it wasn't common enough, the acronym wouldn't even be understood even.

Speaking of acronyms, @all, surely including, but not limited to linguoboy only: There also is something like a recursive acronym. An example would be (mentioned only because it is on topic right now) that "GNU" acronym. It stands for "GNU is not UNIX", i.e. the GNU project isn't the UNIX operating system. So what is your (as in "@all") perception of those recursive acronymes, do they support the goals of whoever does anything he uses such an acronym for, or are they more of something that is causing confusion?

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Posted: 2018-11-07, 21:34
by langmon
Communication ideas practice: How to Communicate with Aliens if They Exist and Also Came to Earth [Entirely serious post for the purpose of practice]

Although I already wrote these words because of a reason "requiring" them a short time ago in a certain type conversation of mine with somebody, they do fit in here, too. This isn't even like quoting any PMs or anything like that, but about something entirely different. I only changed a few words, but that is all. And I am almost certain that whomever I had this little conversation with wouldn't even have the slightest issue with myself sharing that "story" with you all.

That person who still keeps calling himself Somehow Geeky Polyglot, although he is less than half of a geek now, but still above zero wrote:You somehow got a point.
Besiiiides... both (LAT) alienus and (ENG) alien aren't restricted to "someone from outer space".
(Although not sure if the ancient Romans ever used that word to refer to someone who doesn't live on Earth...).
They both express an idea like "not from this place".

But what if a certain person returns soon and then realizes that we were in the meantime speaking about aliens and stuff??? :lol:

Since I have a new found passion for something like All Things Communication, I gotta develop a solution right now. Even if it is about something which just might be a bit funny too... we need to tell the truth, yes. So... I for one agree that in the event there really would be some outer-space aliens (cannot confirm nor deny without really knowing that in reality there are some / there aren't any anywhere in the universe), I would want to communicate with them too if they come to Earth. Maybe it only would be possibly through gestures (and they could get them wrong).

But we also can point at certain objects, or use a picture dictionary. This could at least help. But it also could be possible in some cases that they learned one or more human language/s anyway. So... having said that, we now have a sufficient reason for having spoken about aliens. Because even if it could sound a bit funny too, what I just mentioned really could be a draft of a strategy of coping with the aliens, or maybe it even could be sort of a blueprint.

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Posted: 2018-11-08, 7:33
by langmon
There may be some overlap with what I already wrote, and there even actually is some.
But as with others language, this is also about spaced repetition (coming from someone who quit using flashcards a long time ago even for the likes of ES/FR/..., and has never used them to learn the Language of Communication).

What I am pondering upon right now is:

Sometimes two persons would have a very different POV (point of view) on some situations. The first could say, [rather extreme example, but there are even much more extreme real-life examples, too] "It is a pure no-no to start a conversation about the pros and cons of green vs. black tea with someone you only met five times, this is known through Common Sense, it isn't even possible for any normal human being to doubt this Common Fact. And if someone wouldn't realize that it is a no-no, this is the same as being deaf, there is nothing left to say, period".

The other person could say the opposite, i.e., "It is a pure no-no to dislike the idea of starting a conversation about the pros and cons of green vs. black tea with someone you only met five times, this is known through Common Sense, it isn't even possible for any normal human being to doubt this Common Fact. And if someone wouldn't realize that it disliking this idea is a pure no-no, this is the same as being deaf, there is nothing left to say, period".

What can those two do to at least realize, whatever the significance of the POV of each of them to each of them may be, and regardless of each of one considering his POV the objective universal truth about that matter or not considering it like that, that whatever the case may be, having a different POV about it still is something that possibly would happen, and that it isn't the same as literally being deaf or blind?
(Very long sentence, I know.)

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Posted: 2018-11-08, 7:39
by langmon
Ways of written speech used for emphasis: formatting (marking something as bold / using italics / highlighting), using exclamation marks, and using ALL CAPS LETTERS.

What are the effects of any of those?

And there is another important question: What are the effects of a combination of two or more of them?

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Posted: 2018-11-08, 7:43
by langmon
Pattern of behavior: Not Being Able to Make a Difference Between Mere Factual Statements and Being Personally Verbally Attacked

Some people think that when someone tells them something like "you don't know a lot of Italian yet", that other person automatically also is personally verbally attacking them.

How exactly can they change this attitude?

And how can others handle it as long as they (those persons easily feeling verbally attacked) still have it?

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Posted: 2018-11-08, 7:47
by langmon
Pattern of behavior: Rejecting Any Criticism Unless it Also Contains Some Praise

Why do they do it?

And how to cope with it?

Re: [Sort of a log] The language called communication: reading between the lines, misunderstandings, patterns of behavio

Posted: 2018-11-08, 7:55
by langmon
Patterns of behavior:
Liking or Disliking Every Kind of Verbosity
Liking or Disliking Every Kind of Brevity


Some things require a lot of details and verbosity. For example, I think that (almost) everyone would agree that doctors wouldn't have been able to learn whatever they really know about medicine without learning about many, many details too.

(For those of you who wouldn't necessarily agree with everything some doctors are saying: This post is being written by someone who doesn't do anything like Blindly Believing the Medicine Experts [no matter if it is about people who really are experts, or about others who only are labeled that way]. But I am mentioning this example because of language-related purposes.

Other things, on the other hand, simply require brevity.

What are the motivations of those who like every kind of verbosity?

What are the motivations of those who dislike every kind of verbosity?

What are the motivations of those who like every kind of brevity?

What are the motivations of those who dislike every kind of brevity?

And how exactly can people of any of those four types interact with each other without any of them causing some (avoidable) trouble for anyone else?