Random language thread 6

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razlem
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby razlem » 2020-10-30, 6:50

Choctaw has such an interesting way of making negatives from active verbs.

nosi - [3p] sleeps
iknoso - [3p] doesn't sleep

Where the 'ik' is part of a set of negative prefixes changing depending on the person-
aknoso - I sleep
chiknoso - You sleep
ik- 3ps/p
ke/kil- we
kilo- we all
achik- y'all

In addition to this prefix and the replacement of the last root vowel with 'o', the penultimate root vowel receives a high tone, and becomes lengthened if the syllable is light. If the verb is in the past tense or with an irrealis marker, an additional 'ki' is (historically) added after 'o':
aknosokitok - I didn't sleep

Though nowadays, maybe due to English influence, most speakers just use the auxiliary verb/suffix "kiyo", meaning "to not be", used as the English "no".
nosi( )kiyo - [3p] doesn't want
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby OldBoring » 2020-11-05, 8:45

Ladybug/ladybird: a lot of languages seem to have a feminine or cute name

Mandarin Chinese: "ladle insect"

My native Qingtianese (Wu Chinese): farting little-pearl
I've never understood why, do ladybugs fart?

In my extended family in Italy "farting little-pearl" is also the nickname for the old Fiat 500:
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I haven't heard it in other people, so I don't know if other Chinese/Qingtianese people in Italy use it.

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Osias » 2020-11-05, 19:37

OldBoring wrote:Ladybug/ladybird: a lot of languages seem to have a feminine or cute name

Mandarin Chinese: "ladle insect"

My native Qingtianese (Wu Chinese): farting little-pearl
I've never understood why, do ladybugs fart?


They stink a lot if killed.
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby awrui » 2020-11-05, 20:34

Osias wrote:
OldBoring wrote:Ladybug/ladybird: a lot of languages seem to have a feminine or cute name

Mandarin Chinese: "ladle insect"

My native Qingtianese (Wu Chinese): farting little-pearl
I've never understood why, do ladybugs fart?


They stink a lot if killed.


I used to live at a place that was infested with them (the asian version, not the european ones). It was impossible to get rid of them. I couldn't just pick them up because they were so many, I couldn'd poison them because of the smell, I couldn't vacuum them because of the smell, I couldn't smash them because of the smell, and I couln'd just use a broom on them either, because they release their smell when stressed. I once crushed one by accident, the smell stayed for three days and I couldn't use that room because it was so sickening. The only solution was moving out and let the next person deal with it.

In case anyone was wondering: yes, they bite. Feels like a needle sting.

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby eskandar » 2020-11-05, 20:40

In Persian, ladybugs are "little cobblers" (kafsh-duzak) and in Hebrew they are "Moses our Teacher's cow" (parat moshe rabbenu).
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Linguaphile » 2020-11-05, 21:47

eskandar wrote:In Persian, ladybugs are "little cobblers" (kafsh-duzak) and in Hebrew they are "Moses our Teacher's cow" (parat moshe rabbenu).

In Russian they are "God's cow".

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Yasna » 2020-11-05, 22:31

Ein Buch muß die Axt sein für das gefrorene Meer in uns. - Kafka

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Osias » 2020-11-06, 1:51

In Brazilian it's joaninha, literally little Joan. No idea why.
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby vijayjohn » 2020-11-23, 2:43

I don't think most Indian languages even have a word for 'ladybug', though Hindi apparently does.

The YouTube channel Pehchan Pakistan seems to have some patriotic Pakistani songs in regional languages of Pakistan. The only ones I've seen seem to combine them with Urdu, though. (I'm pretty sure there are also songs that are just in Urdu).

This is one of their songs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EihSopnnCk
I think these are the languages each part is in:

0:12-0:33 - chorus in Urdu
0:47-1:29 - I don't know enough of this language to be sure, but especially given the traditional dress of the men in this part, I'm guessing this part is supposed to be in Balochi. However, the lyrics sound as if they could almost pass off as Urdu anyway as they're basically just a bunch of phrases with izafa. :?
1:29-1:43 - title line + chorus in Urdu
1:58-2:35 - I think this is Sindhi
2:35-2:52 - title line + chorus in Urdu
3:04-3:32 - Pashto
3:32-3:48 - title line + chorus in Urdu
4:02-4:33 - Punjabi (right?)
4:33-4:50 - title line + chorus in Urdu
4:58-5:26 - Shina IINM
5:26-5:42 - title line + chorus in Urdu
5:52-6:21 - I believe this is Gojri
6:21-end - title line + chorus + another verse + chorus again in Urdu :P

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Saim » 2020-11-23, 9:01

vijayjohn wrote:1:58-2:35 - I think this is Sindhi


I think so too. I can make out آہے for "is".

4:02-4:33 - Punjabi (right?)


Yes.

Dunno about the rest of it. :lol:
Last edited by Saim on 2020-11-24, 6:59, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby vijayjohn » 2020-11-24, 2:09

Saim wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:1:58-2:35 - I think this is Sindhi


I think so to. I can make out آہے for "is".

I noticed that, too, but I wasn't sure that was a thing in Sindhi because the only language where I know it is happens to be Marathi. I think the clues for me where hearing something like muhinjo and some instances of jo/je (instead of ka/ke) and also something like muhinjo daro. :lol:

I'm pretty sure about the Pashto part because I've gotten enough exposure to Pashto by now to recognize some of the words: [st̪a] 'your', [pə] 'at/on (etc.)', [ˈmina] 'love', and I think 'to have' is something like [ˈlaːɾəl] (not to mention of course [həɾ] 'every' and [kʊɾˈban] 'sacrifice/victim/something like that'). I've also heard [muŋ] and [ˈzɽuno] enough in Pashto songs to know that those are Pashto words even though I have no clue what they actually mean and have never looked them up. I also know that [jaw] is 'one' in Pashto, so maybe the [joː] in the Pashto part has something to do with that.

The Shina part I guessed in part because I heard a retroflex fricative, breathy voice (I'm not sure there are any languages in South Asia that still have both of these in native vocabulary except some Dardic languages), and something something "parbat Gilgit-Baltistan, ham hain Pakistan." :lol: Also I believe all of the performers for this part were wearing the kind of clothing that native speakers of Shina traditionally wear, including (especially?) the singer with his feathered beret, who apparently is a pretty famous Shina singer. The lady singing in Gojri also sings in Gojri in at least one other Pehchan Pakistan video. Gojri to me sounds almost like some kind of combination of Urdu, Punjabi, and Gujarati.

I assume you figured out that the parts in Urdu were in Urdu. :silly:

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby eskandar » 2020-11-25, 6:33

Cool song! Now, can you translate the non-Urdu parts? :twisted:
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Saim » 2020-11-29, 11:29

Apparently there are news reports in Swiss German. :shock:

https://www.srf.ch/play/tv/schweiz-aktu ... aaf9e424e9

Presumably not the same as "real" dialects, but still clearly different from Swiss-accented Standard German (notably they seem to systematically use an analytical construction with "von" to make the genitive).

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Car » 2020-11-29, 12:15

Saim wrote:Apparently there are news reports in Swiss German. :shock:

https://www.srf.ch/play/tv/schweiz-aktu ... aaf9e424e9

Presumably not the same as "real" dialects, but still clearly different from Swiss-accented Standard German (notably they seem to systematically use an analytical construction with "von" to make the genitive).


What's so shopping about that? It's not as if it's their main news and even in those, you can hear Swiss German, too.

No, it seems far too intelligible for "real" dialects. But we've had that discussion with kevin in the past: In general, they don't use full-blown dialects on TV as they wouldn't be able to understand each other. :lol: Although, as I mentioned in that discussion, there are Swiss people who very much deny using anything between Standard German and full-blown dialects...
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Saim » 2020-11-29, 13:24

Car wrote:What's so shopping about that?


It's not exactly shocking, more surprising, as I'm not aware of anywhere in Europe that does anything similar (presenting news in a non-standardised, non-written language variety). I would be surprised to see TV news in West Flemish, Bavarian or Neapolitan. Of course, Alemannic is the majority vernacular language in Switzerland, so that's also unique in a sense.

EDIT: Honestly the closest case I can think of is Hong Kong news, where they apparently write the news more-or-less in Standard Chinese (i.e. Mandarin) but then read it out with Cantonese readings (pronunciation of individual characters and compounds).

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Car » 2020-11-29, 21:09

Saim wrote:It's not exactly shocking, more surprising, as I'm not aware of anywhere in Europe that does anything similar (presenting news in a non-standardised, non-written language variety). I would be surprised to see TV news in West Flemish, Bavarian or Neapolitan. Of course, Alemannic is the majority vernacular language in Switzerland, so that's also unique in a sense.

EDIT: Honestly the closest case I can think of is Hong Kong news, where they apparently write the news more-or-less in Standard Chinese (i.e. Mandarin) but then read it out with Cantonese readings (pronunciation of individual characters and compounds).

The programme is described as "Das Nachrichten-Magazin berichtet täglich über die wichtigsten kantonalen und regionalen Themen." Considering how much they use dialects, it's not surprising. Some German radio channels have news in Low German, which at least isn't non-standardised (written versions exist, too, so it's not quite comparable, though). What about Norwegian where no real standard version exists?
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Saim » 2020-11-30, 6:53

Car wrote:The programme is described as "Das Nachrichten-Magazin berichtet täglich über die wichtigsten kantonalen und regionalen Themen." Considering how much they use dialects, it's not surprising.


I'm not sure what you mean. Considering how much who uses dialects? The Swiss Germans in general?

Some German radio channels have news in Low German, which at least isn't non-standardised (written versions exist, too, so it's not quite comparable, though).


That's more comparable to what other parts of Europe do with minority languages. Low German is recognised as a distinct language by Germany, and it has committed to "encourage the use of the language in broadcasting programmes" as per the European Charter for Regional and Minority Languages. I don't find it particularly different to France's treatment of Occitan or Hungary's treatment of Slovak.

What about Norwegian where no real standard version exists?


I don't know. What variet(ies) are Norwegian news reports in?

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby awrui » 2020-11-30, 7:39

Saim wrote:What variet(ies) are Norwegian news reports in?


There's a quota for big news stations, they have to use at least 25% nynorsk. But spoken language is dialect only. Newspapers usually choose one language, or they have a intern quota. There is no quota for Saami languages, even in Saami areas. The Saami news on the state channel are mostly in North Saami, and maybe once a month in another language.

I once saw some Swiss TV. It was terrible. I had to use subtitles, even though they claim that it's German.

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Saim » 2020-11-30, 8:48

awrui wrote:There's a quota for big news stations, they have to use at least 25% nynorsk. But spoken language is dialect only.


To clarify, since I'm not sure what you mean by "spoken language": so newsreaders speak 75% oral bokmal and 25% oral nynorsk? I understand that these two varieties are essentially written registers, but newsreaders generally tend towards a sort of "spoken written language".

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Car » 2020-11-30, 10:12

Saim wrote:
Car wrote:The programme is described as "Das Nachrichten-Magazin berichtet täglich über die wichtigsten kantonalen und regionalen Themen." Considering how much they use dialects, it's not surprising.


I'm not sure what you mean. Considering how much who uses dialects? The Swiss Germans in general?


Yes, also on TV. You don't even have that in Austria.

Some German radio channels have news in Low German, which at least isn't non-standardised (written versions exist, too, so it's not quite comparable, though).


That's more comparable to what other parts of Europe do with minority languages. Low German is recognised as a distinct language by Germany, and it has committed to "encourage the use of the language in broadcasting programmes" as per the European Charter for Regional and Minority Languages. I don't find it particularly different to France's treatment of Occitan or Hungary's treatment of Slovak.


I know, but Low German doesn't have a written standard, AFAIK.

What about Norwegian where no real standard version exists?


I don't know. What variet(ies) are Norwegian news reports in?


I'm not sure, but of those languages I've ever learned/ spoken, only German-speaking Switzerland was comparable in the variety of dialects in the media to Norway. And they do have Standard German and use it in some contexts.

No, bokmål means "book language" for a reason: It's a written version, not an oral one. There is no spoken standard, they just use their dialects. You just have to listen into a random programme on the Norwegian media and the variety is striking.
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