Random language thread 6

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Luís » 2020-09-11, 11:06

I just found out there's a language exchange app called Linguado. This means "french kiss" in Portuguese, so at first glance people here might think it's a dating app :P
Quot linguas calles, tot homines vales

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Osias » 2020-09-11, 12:30

We don't use that word in Brazil, it sounds to me as a dish of tongue meat or a fish name. Or a dish based on the tongue of said fish.
2017 est l'année du (fr) et de l'(de) pour moi. Parle avec moi en eux, s'il te plait.

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby OldBoring » 2020-09-11, 16:44

Já sei namorar
Já sei beijar de língua
Agora só me resta sonhar

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Luís » 2020-09-11, 22:10

Quot linguas calles, tot homines vales

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby vijayjohn » 2020-09-12, 4:58

I recently joined a Discord server called simply "Kerala," and one of the users wrote this about varieties of Malayalam, which I found intriguing (Thrissur is a district in central Kerala; Thrissur Bhasha is literally 'Thrissur language' but refers to the variety of Malayalam spoken there):
In Kerala standardization is happening peculiar way
Yes, there’s a state standard but more so district wise and region wise standards are emerging

For example, the Thrissur Bhasha you know of, didn’t exist until like urbanization. It was a standardization that happened recently. Didn’t exist before 3 generations ago

There’s no real way to prevent this as this is organic
Like people who were previously segregated coming together forming an amalgamation sort of thing

I guess this is basically koineization. He seems inclined to agree.

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Saim » 2020-09-12, 8:41

Luís wrote:I just found out there's a language exchange app called Linguado. This means "french kiss" in Portuguese, so at first glance people here might think it's a dating app :P


Given that it actively encourages you to not use the language you're "learning" and lets you search by age and gender, I'm not convinced it's not.

Also, lol:

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Did you know a language dies every 2 weeks? Our highest priority is to save as many as possible.


How? Beats me.

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby OldBoring » 2020-09-12, 11:17

vijayjohn wrote:I recently joined a Discord server called simply "Kerala," and one of the users wrote this about varieties of Malayalam, which I found intriguing (Thrissur is a district in central Kerala; Thrissur Bhasha is literally 'Thrissur language' but refers to the variety of Malayalam spoken there):
In Kerala standardization is happening peculiar way
Yes, there’s a state standard but more so district wise and region wise standards are emerging

For example, the Thrissur Bhasha you know of, didn’t exist until like urbanization. It was a standardization that happened recently. Didn’t exist before 3 generations ago

There’s no real way to prevent this as this is organic
Like people who were previously segregated coming together forming an amalgamation sort of thing

I guess this is basically koineization. He seems inclined to agree.

Why do they need a Thrissur Bhasha (koiné?) if there's already Standard (pan-Keralan?) Malayalam for communication between speakers of different dialects?

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby OldBoring » 2020-09-12, 11:26

Saim wrote:
Luís wrote:I just found out there's a language exchange app called Linguado. This means "french kiss" in Portuguese, so at first glance people here might think it's a dating app :P


Given that it actively encourages you to not use the language you're "learning" and lets you search by age and gender, I'm not convinced it's not.

Also, lol:

PRESERVING
Did you know a language dies every 2 weeks? Our highest priority is to save as many as possible.


How? Beats me.

I've just registered to this app.

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby vijayjohn » 2020-09-12, 11:55

Saim wrote:
Luís wrote:I just found out there's a language exchange app called Linguado. This means "french kiss" in Portuguese, so at first glance people here might think it's a dating app :P


Given that it actively encourages you to not use the language you're "learning" and lets you search by age and gender, I'm not convinced it's not.

:o
OldBoring wrote:Why do they need a Thrissur Bhasha (koiné?) if there's already Standard (pan-Keralan?) Malayalam for communication between speakers of different dialects?

IIUC because they had created a shared district-specific identity that didn't exist before the formation of Kerala as an Indian state and people from other districts did the same.

During the colonial period, there was no state called "Kerala"; Kerala existed only as a geographical region. Instead, there were three kingdoms called (in English) Travancore, Cochin, and Malabar. After independence, the Indian government dismantled all kingdoms and reorganized India into states on linguistic lines, and those states were further organized (I guess by the state governments?) into districts. This resulted (again, if I'm understanding correctly what this guy was saying) in people from different parts of the same district coming into contact for the first time ever and thus creating district-specific koines and district-specific/regional identities, neither of which existed before the formation of said districts.

I don't think people would use the standard state language as a solution to improving intelligibility between different parts of the same district by default unless the government enforced this in some way. In Kerala, that didn't happen. Instead, everyone acknowledges that people speak differently in different parts of the state, but apparently, the illusion of inclusivity has ironically resulted in a lot of varieties dying out.

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Massimiliano B » 2020-09-17, 8:08

Do you think these sites can really help you learn a language?

https://www.50languages.com/?user_lang=EM

http://learn101.org

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby awrui » 2020-09-17, 12:03

I think they can assist you, but are not suited if you want to learn on your own above total beginner level. They might be useful for basic vocabulary, but for me it's too little grammar and culture. Also, that 50-languages-thing is full of errors, like languages are mixed... There are Swedish words in the Norwegian lessons and Latvian words in the Estonian lessons. I'd not recommend them for learning, but maybe for "wanderlusting".

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Linguaphile » 2020-09-18, 5:45

Massimiliano B wrote:Do you think these sites can really help you learn a language?

https://www.50languages.com/?user_lang=EM

http://learn101.org


To "learn" a language as we usually mean it, no. But I think they can have their place. They can fill the same rolls phrasebooks do, with the added bonus that (unlike traditional paper-copy phrasebooks) they have audio files. And how many of us have bought or browsed phrasebooks at some point, either to prepare for travelling somewhere or just to get a feel for how conversational language works in a language we don't yet speak? I think they do fill that need. You're not going to become fluent, but they give you some stock phrases, access to audio, exposure to sentence formation, etc.
But that's only true if they're accurate and appropriate for the specific language. I haven't used either of these sites in a long time. In fact 50languages.com looks quite redesigned compared to how I thought I remembered it, so I may even be thinking of a different site. Anyway, if it has as many errors as Awrui indicated, then that's definitely not going to help with language learning.
Another issue is that they tend to use the same phrases and topics for every language, but to be truly useful, the phrases and topics should be tailored to each language.
I just glanced at the section for Estonian grammar on Learn101.org which has a section on "gender", just as Spanish does. Well, Estonian has no grammatical gender, so this section is rather bizarrely just a vocab list of family members and other people, with no grammatical point to it at all. It also has a section on prepositions, which is fine, but I see no mention of the case system, which takes the place of many English prepositions (in fact, even the prepositions themselves can't really be used correctly without knowledge of the case system; but furthermore, in many situations the case system replaces the prepositions entirely). So they should at least be mentioned.
Not to mention, the intro to the section on prepositions says "We will start with prepositions. In general, they are used to link words to other words. For example: I speak Estonian and English the preposition is [and] because it connects both words Estonian and English." The Spanish section, and I assume probably all of them, has this same error: "For example: I speak Spanish and English the preposition is [and] because it connects both words Spanish and English." I mean... really? This is their intro to the section on prepositions.
It looks like both Estonian and Spanish have past tense lessons that follow identical formats, even though Spanish has preterite and imperfect while Estonian has just one simple past tense. This isn't logical. Estonian should have a robust section about grammatical cases but no section about gender (I mean, come on, even the pronouns don't show gender!), and Spanish should retain the section about grammatical gender and add a section on imperfect. In other words, sites like these would be a lot more effective if they were tailored to the specific features of each language, but they're not - they just follow the same identical template for every language.


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