Random language thread 6

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Linguaphile
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Linguaphile » 2020-06-16, 17:35

linguoboy wrote:One of the proposed solutions was interfiling the non-English titles. This seems reasonable to me if most of the patrons interested in them are L1 speakers of English looking for reading in their target languages, but I would find it extremely inconvenient to have to browse the entire fiction section in the hopes of finding a few volumes in a particular non-English language.

I've seen libraries do this for non-fiction, and I quite like it. Besides being useful, it makes the point that "books are books" regardless of language. What makes the most sense to me is to interfile by subject matter regardless of language for nonfiction, but then for fiction have language-specific sections. You're right that it's inconvenient to browse the fiction section in hopes of finding something a particular language (not to mention: in hopes of finding something you like in that language), but for non-fiction, you'll want to go straight to the right topic, and often nonfiction books in a language you don't know as well could still be useful if you're doing research or trying to learn about a topic. (Maybe you know a bit of the language and can understand parts of it even though you don't know it well enough to read it cover-to-cover like you would with fiction; or maybe it has useful charts, graphs, photos, diagrams, whatever).
Of course, all of that is based on the idea that the patron is browsing to begin with rather than having found a particular book in the catalog or a particular fiction author you're looking for (which is what I tend to do myself). But I'll often end up looking at the other books in the same section, and the organization I've described is good for that.

linguoboy wrote:n academic settings, when there aren't separate departments for particular languages or language families, it's most common to have a department of "Modern Languages" and possibly an "Ancient Languages" department

There, too, it means "Modern Languages besides English" (so quite analogous to "World Languages," with the except that ancient/classical/Biblical languages are separate). I think of "Modern Languages" as the college/university equivalent of "World Language" in K12/primary/secondary schools. IME the difference is that colleges/universities offer ancient/classical languages (and want to distinguish them from the languages that aren't in that category) where most secondary schools with "World Language" departments do not.

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Saim
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Saim » 2020-06-16, 17:51

linguoboy wrote:In one of my library groups, someone asked for a cover term for fiction in languages other than English that sounded "more inclusive" than "Foreign Languages". I suggested "Languages Other Than English", since that's literally the criteria for inclusion, but the consensus was for "World Languages". I can accept that that has a peculiar meaning in (USAmerican) libraries, but it just grates on me. English is a "world language"; Swedish--for all the wordliness of its speakers--is not. Using the term in this way is just as Anglocentric as "Foreign Languages" is.


I guess that kind of jives with the categories of "World Movies" and "world music", but I would be pretty confused to see "world languages" as a category in a library, I'd have to look at the books to get what it's about.

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Brzeczyszczykiewicz » 2020-06-17, 7:16

Man, the day I can finally do this with the Archi alphabet is going to be a happy one, indeed! 8-)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9uUmdDAMFAA

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby razlem » 2020-06-20, 7:02

Relative clauses with switch reference are a nightmare :doggy:

American Indian languages are terrifyingly and wonderfully complex.
American English (en-us)::German (de)::Standard Spanish (es) Swedish (sv) Mandarin (zh)::Choctaw (cho) Finnish (fi) Irish (ir) Arabic (ar)
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Saim
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Saim » 2020-06-22, 11:22

I just learned the Serbian word paž↓, paževi↑ and I somehow didn't see the connection to English page (as in the person) until I looked at the etymology section on HJP. Apparently it's also connected to the Greek root paedo-, although Wiktionary says some sources find this explanation unlikely and prefer to link it to Latin pāgus (countryside, whence also "pagan").

I also only figured out the connection between Serbian blud↓ (fornication) and Polish błąd (mistake) once I learned Serbian bluditi↑, bludim↑ (to wander, stray). Polish also has błądzić, zabłądzić meaning to wander, stray or go wrong.

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Gormur » 2020-06-26, 14:38

Does anyone know of any videos of Walloon speakers interacting? It'd be nice to hear the flow of this language :)
Eigi gegnir þat at segja at bók nøkkur er hreinferðug eðr ønnur spelluð því at vandliga ok dáliga eru bœkr ritnar ok annat kunnum vér eigi um þœr at dœma

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Linguaphile » 2020-06-26, 15:42

Gormur wrote:Does anyone know of any videos of Walloon speakers interacting? It'd be nice to hear the flow of this language :)


Wallo-picard (western Walloon):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAq4pcJpb64

Wallon namurois (central Walloon) in the US:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lLLWgjIfJQ

And this last one is not multiple speakers interacting, but several different varieties of Walloon (along with some other languages of Wallonia):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RPAvP96Hq4

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Gormur » 2020-06-26, 22:18

I hadn't seen the first one. Thanks

I guess if I knew French I might find more, but I even tried searching what I could think of (in French) and found nothing aside from a book reference that's probably out of print

It would be cool to be able to understand what's being said :)
Eigi gegnir þat at segja at bók nøkkur er hreinferðug eðr ønnur spelluð því at vandliga ok dáliga eru bœkr ritnar ok annat kunnum vér eigi um þœr at dœma

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby linguoboy » 2020-06-26, 23:07

A while ago, I bought A modern reader of Arabic short stories in a used bookstore. A couple nights ago, I picked it up to read and discovered that it's actually a reader of modern short stories in Arabic. Which I don't read. Guess I'll be reading something else.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Brzeczyszczykiewicz » 2020-06-27, 2:23

linguoboy wrote:A while ago, I bought A modern reader of Arabic short stories in a used bookstore. A couple nights ago, I picked it up to read and discovered that it's actually a reader of modern short stories in Arabic. Which I don't read. Guess I'll be reading something else.


And there's me, looking for books in Arabic where I live to no avail! :( Lucky you, indeed!

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Yasna » 2020-07-21, 19:46

Image

I can relate.
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby voron » 2020-07-21, 21:19

Brzeczyszczykiewicz wrote:Man, the day I can finally do this with the Archi alphabet is going to be a happy one, indeed! 8-)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9uUmdDAMFAA

The only two comments to this video are in Kurmanji, with Turkish translation in parenthesis. :shock:

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Vlürch » 2020-07-24, 1:36

Wiktionary says Spanish (es) arreciar is ergative. Is that actually true? If so, how does it work in practice? Are there other ergative verbs in Spanish?

I know I should know, but like... I never got to an advanced level in Spanish and I've forgotten literally 70% of it, if not more, so... :para:

And yeah, to be honest I still struggle with ergativity in practice. I mostly wrapped my head around it in theory thanks to Linguoboy and Voron's explanations, but every time I have to think about what it means in practice, I'm still like "wait what?" :oops:

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Luís » 2020-08-15, 18:53

I just realised (pt) alface and (he) חסה khása are cognates

(The Portuguese word comes from the Arabic اَلْخَسَّة al-ḵassa)
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby md0 » 2020-08-17, 7:03

I'm quite happy with how my language learning in-situ is going, although specialised vocabulary remains a huge issue.

I was at the police to register my bike yesterday and I looked up all the words I thought will come up (Personalausweis, Kaufvertrag etc), but the policeman used a synonym I didn't expect every single time. His English-speaking colleague immediately took over before I could try to save it, and while they were going over my documents she had a casual chat with me but she kept speaking English to me despite me trying to answer in German most of the time... I guess the first impression didn't convince her I would be able to understand her :whistle:
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Yasna » 2020-08-23, 17:13

One of my favorite types of words to learn are those which are related to a word I already know, but the relationship is obscured just enough that I don't recognize it at first. I just had this experience with the Swedish word oväder. Before Google Translate had even finished pronouncing the word it clicked, it's German Unwetter!
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby linguoboy » 2020-08-23, 19:47

I was actually mildly disappointed with how familiar Swedish was to me on account of the extensive Hanseatic borrowings. But, then again, if I’d really wanted a Norser learning experience I could have studied Nynorsk instead and I didn’t.
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Yasna » 2020-08-23, 21:48

linguoboy wrote:I was actually mildly disappointed with how familiar Swedish was to me on account of the extensive Hanseatic borrowings.

Did you study Dutch before studying Swedish?
Ein Buch muß die Axt sein für das gefrorene Meer in uns. - Kafka

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linguoboy
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby linguoboy » 2020-08-24, 16:23

Yasna wrote:
linguoboy wrote:I was actually mildly disappointed with how familiar Swedish was to me on account of the extensive Hanseatic borrowings.

Did you study Dutch before studying Swedish?

I did, and a little Low Saxon. But I think I would've recognised the cognates anyhow due to their resemblance to Standard German. (That's how I read Low Saxon, after all.)
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Johanna » 2020-08-24, 18:10

Yep, Middle Low German is to Swedish what Middle Norman French is to English, pretty much.
Swedish (sv) native; English (en) good; Norwegian (no) read fluently, understand well, speak badly; Danish (dk) read fluently, understand badly, can't speak; Faroese (fo) read some, understand a bit, speak a few sentences; German (de) French (fr) Spanish (es) forgetting; heritage language.


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