Same word with different emotional charges in different languages

[IpseDixit]

For the longest time, I would cringe when hearing Americans use the word "race" very nonchalantly. That's because its Italian counterpart - razza - is a very taboo word. Nobody would dare use it the same way Americans do without sounding like a racist nutjob. I'm not sure but I suppose this has to do a lot with Fascist Racial Laws which are still relatively fresh in the collective memory of the country. Nowadays, most people would use the word origine instead.

Another word that would make me cringe is "to deport"/"deportation". In Italian, this is used only in the context of ethnic cleansing. I think to most people, deportazione usually conjures up images of Jewish people being transferred to Auschwitz. So, at first, it was quite disturbing to see American media use it in the context of undocumented immigrants living in the USA. The word we would use in that context is rimpatriare / rimpatrio.

Do you have other examples?

[vijayjohn]

"Dead body" is used as a euphemism for a corpse in Malayalam (whereas it sounds rather blunt in English).

[Ciarán12]

Not sure if it's quite the same (as it's not a cognate), but the use of viado in Portuguese for gay (or, more realistically, faggot) is shocking to me, but Brazilians throw it around quite freely. Also the word Japa as an ethnic slur for Japanese people (or really any East Asians) is commonplace in Portuguese (I've heard it bandied around on the radio and on podcasts and my fiancée has been called this (even in a "friendly" manner) a lot in her life), whereas the equivelant in English "Jap" is really offensive.

For the longest time, I would cringe when hearing Americans use the word "race" very nonchalantly. That's because its Italian counterpart - razza - is a very taboo word. Nobody would dare use it the same way Americans do without sounding like a racist nutjob.

I also feel that Americans use the term 'race' a lot and it sounds very 19th century to me.

[vijayjohn]

My grandfather uses the term "Jap" a lot in his war memoirs, both in Malayalam and in English. I'm not really sure what to think about that. FWICT he had an ambivalent view of the Japanese. On the one hand, the Japanese did not treat him personally nearly as badly as the British did, and he made friends with a few Japanese officers and even invited at least one of them home long after the war was over. He also spoke a little bit of Japanese and had a lot of Japanese coins (no banknotes, though) in his coin collection, which my brother and I inherited directly from him (to be fair, I'm pretty sure he had quite a few British coins in it as well). Also, he wrote his diary out by hand, so maybe he thought "Jap" was a convenient abbreviation, idk. On the other hand, the Japanese did treat him pretty badly at times, cutting off food supplies for months and effectively putting him and his colleagues under house arrest for most of the war, and definitely treated some Indians horribly. He didn't sympathize much with the Japanese cause, either, apart from ending the British occupation, and he was at least somewhat aware of some of their war crimes.

[Car]

For the longest time, I would cringe when hearing Americans use the word "race" very nonchalantly. That's because its Italian counterpart - razza - is a very taboo word. Nobody would dare use it the same way Americans do without sounding like a racist nutjob. I'm not sure but I suppose this has to do a lot with Fascist Racial Laws which are still relatively fresh in the collective memory of the country. Nowadays, most people would use the word origine instead.

Another word that would make me cringe is "to deport"/"deportation". In Italian, this is used only in the context of ethnic cleansing. I think to most people, deportazione usually conjures up images of Jewish people being transferred to Auschwitz. So, at first, it was quite disturbing to see American media use it in the context of undocumented immigrants living in the USA. The word we would use in that context is rimpatriare / rimpatrio.

Do you have other examples?

The same is true for German Rasse due to the Nazis and Deportation which conjures up the same images. For the former, the translation really depends on what you mean with it (if it's just skin colour, you'd use Hautfarbe), the latter is Abschiebung.

[linguoboy]

For the former, the translation really depends on what you mean with it (if it's just skin colour, you'd use Hautfarbe), the latter is Abschiebung.

In USAmerican usage, "race" is not reducible to skin colour. It's possible to have "Black" people who are lighter skinned than many "White" people.


For example, this man (who produces a lot of commentaries on race) has a "Black" father and self-identifies as "Black".

[TheStrayCat]

One example that comes to my mind is the word żyd/žid/жид. In Western Slavic languages it is the normative word referring to the Jewish people, in Russian (and most varieties of Ukrainian since the 20th century) it is an ethnic slur.

[Osias]

In Portuguese, gringo is not offensive.

[vijayjohn]

One example that comes to my mind is the word żyd/žid/жид. In Western Slavic languages it is the normative word referring to the Jewish people, in Russian (and most varieties of Ukrainian since the 20th century) it is an ethnic slur.

It's a slur in Romanian, too. My BCS textbook claims that Croatian uses a cognate of this word whereas Serbian and Bosnian use a cognate of Hebrew (like Russian, Ukrainian, and Romanian do).

Lonely Planet Burmese Phrasebook includes the following note on p. 44; I'm not sure how reliable or not it is:

HEY YOU!

As you walk around, you'll hear young people shouting out 'Hey you!' or 'Peace!' (the latter often sounds more like 'piss'). They find this particularly amusing since in Burmese yù (ရူး ) means 'mad' or 'insane'. This could be your first introduction to the Burmese love of punning.

---

In India, a doctor at a hospital might ask a patient, in English, "How many issues?" This means 'how many times have you given birth?'. The doctor does not ask "how many children?" because then the patient might not include illegitimate children.

---

I've mentioned this before, but there are several perfectly ordinary words in Tamil whose cognates in Malayalam (usually identical to the Tamil forms since they're so closely related and in such close contact) are swearwords or at least markedly dispreferred terms. For example, there is a word for 'father' that is perfectly normal in Tamil but used as an insult in Malayalam (for insulting someone else's father). There is also a word for 'mother' that is also perfectly normal in Tamil but is archaic in Malayalam and also dispreferred since it is also the specific word for 'mother' (there are other terms for both 'father' and 'mother' in both languages) used to form the word for 'motherfucker'. There is a word that apparently means just 'hair' in Tamil, but in Malayalam, it means 'pubic hair' and, for some speakers, is the most offensive swearword possible in the entire Malayalam language. There is a word that Tamils use all the time to mean simply 'to do' or 'to make' but always makes me laugh because in Malayalam, it means 'to fuck'!

[Car]

For the former, the translation really depends on what you mean with it (if it's just skin colour, you'd use Hautfarbe), the latter is Abschiebung.

In USAmerican usage, "race" is not reducible to skin colour. It's possible to have "Black" people who are lighter skinned than many "White" people.

I didn't say it was. Hence why I wrote "the translation really depends on what you mean with it".

[JackFrost]

In Quebec French, the loanword "fuck" has a less strong connotation, especially compared to our own homegrown sacres. Many times, it means "messed up" or "weird". Such as : c'est ben fucké ça "that's really messed up"; j'sais pas, mais elle est fuckée dans la tête en tout cas "I dunno, but she's weird in the head anyway"; arrête d'faire ça ou tu vas fucker toute! "stop doing that or you're gonna screw it all up!"; fuck toute! "screw it all!". That word is rarely bleeped out on Quebecois TV stations as it's not that vulgar to our ears, but then I think we bleep out words much less often than our anglo counterparts. I dunno.

And speaking of race here, seeing or hearing "negro" to refer to black person always makes me cringe because if I dare to say it to a black person, I'll get my ass beaten.

[vijayjohn]

I've noticed that a lot of Europeans seem to consider fuck less offensive than people in Anglophone North America do. I'm not sure whether it's only non-native speakers of English or not, though. (By contrast, I don't recall ever seeing this attitude among Indians). I know some Dutch-speakers who say they have no problem with using or hearing swearwords in English but would take offense on some level at hearing swearwords in Dutch. This sort of effect is perhaps more obvious with bro, a term that native English-speakers seem more likely to associate with frat boys than non-native speakers are.

[md0]

In Cypriot Greek, the word αλλοδαπός (third-country national) has become more pejorative than ξένος (foreigner).

[Ciarán12]

I've noticed that a lot of Europeans seem to consider fuck less offensive than people in Anglophone North America do. I'm not sure whether it's only non-native speakers of English or not, though. (By contrast, I don't recall ever seeing this attitude among Indians). I know some Dutch-speakers who say they have no problem with using or hearing swearwords in English but would take offense on some level at hearing swearwords in Dutch. This sort of effect is perhaps more obvious with bro, a term that native English-speakers seem more likely to associate with frat boys than non-native speakers are.

IME, Americans and Canadians swear less than other English speakers. You guys also have a whole bunch of weaker swear words that we don't even use (presumably you need them as the ones we use you guys find too offensive for everyday use). I use the word 'fuck' quite freely, even at work and with family.

[vijayjohn]

Yeah, there's a whole range of them here because different people seem to take different levels of offense at them, I guess. For instance, when I was growing up, we would definitely get in trouble at school if we were caught saying damn or hell (let alone fuck and shit!), or even darn, which is the sort of reason why dang, shoot, and heck exist. But then I think some people think even dang, shoot, and/or heck are "bad words." I remember the first time I was a teaching assistant, the prof was teaching an introductory linguistics course, but even though there's a part of the textbook that has to do with cursing and linguistic taboos, the only kind of cursing he was okay with discussing in class was the pejoration of religious terminology in Quebec French. He insisted that some students get offended otherwise.

[linguoboy]

For the former, the translation really depends on what you mean with it (if it's just skin colour, you'd use Hautfarbe), the latter is Abschiebung.

In USAmerican usage, "race" is not reducible to skin colour. It's possible to have "Black" people who are lighter skinned than many "White" people.

I didn't say it was. Hence why I wrote "the translation really depends on what you mean with it".

The point is that I can't think of a context where NA English race could ever be accurately translated as Hautfarbe. These are really two entirely different (albeit related) concepts.

In German, Schitt has roughly the charge of darn in NA English. Someone I met in Germany told me the story of being an exchange student in high school and saying Schitt in front of the class after messing up during an oral presentation. He was really not prepared for the teacher's scandalised reaction.

Conversely, Scheisse was used as a euphemism in my family. (In German, it's stronger than Schitt but still weaker than shit is in NA English.) Several years ago, I started noticing shite being used similarly in this country despite being stronger than shit in its place of origin (i.e. Ireland/UK).

In general, curse words don't have the same impact in an L2 as is in one's native language. I still have painful memories of being scolded or punished for using words words like shit, fuck, or ass when I was growing up and nothing comparable for words like con, follar, or Arsch.

[Car]

For the former, the translation really depends on what you mean with it (if it's just skin colour, you'd use Hautfarbe), the latter is Abschiebung.

In USAmerican usage, "race" is not reducible to skin colour. It's possible to have "Black" people who are lighter skinned than many "White" people.

I didn't say it was. Hence why I wrote "the translation really depends on what you mean with it".

The point is that I can't think of a context where NA English race could ever be accurately translated as Hautfarbe. These are really two entirely different (albeit related) concepts.

I think race in English covers something that is partly covered by Hautfarbe, but not completely.

[Ciarán12]

Yeah, there's a whole range of them here because different people seem to take different levels of offense at them, I guess. For instance, when I was growing up, we would definitely get in trouble at school if we were caught saying damn or hell (let alone fuck and shit!), or even darn, which is the sort of reason why dang, shoot, and heck exist. But then I think some people think even dang, shoot, and/or heck are "bad words."

damn and hell are almost too weak to be used here, and as for the rest, they are not even words to us. They sound so twee and weak that they would have the opposite effect completely - instead of sounding angry or aggressive you'd sound completely ridiculous.
We must sound like pirates or something to you people.

I remember the first time I was a teaching assistant, the prof was teaching an introductory linguistics course, but even though there's a part of the textbook that has to do with cursing and linguistic taboos, the only kind of cursing he was okay with discussing in class was the pejoration of religious terminology in Quebec French. He insisted that some students get offended otherwise.

To me that just seems like people can't be adults about what are, at the end of the day, just words. If you can't even discuss them in a sterilized sense as objects of study...

[vijayjohn]

damn and hell are almost too weak to be used here, and as for the rest, they are not even words to us.

Well, of course; I think only Americans ever use the other ones. If my understanding is correct, they're all euphemisms we developed; in fact, I was kind of trying to point out how absurd it was that first, Americans(?) developed darn as a euphemism for damn, and then Americans apparently developed dang as a euphemism for the euphemism because the existing euphemism was not already euphemistic enough.

They sound so twee and weak that they would have the opposite effect completely - instead of sounding angry or aggressive you'd sound completely ridiculous.

I've never seen/heard "twee" before, but me likey!

We must sound like pirates or something to you people.

Something like that!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E53qBbsxNXs

To me that just seems like people can't be adults about what are, at the end of the day, just words. If you can't even discuss them in a sterilized sense as objects of study...

Maybe. I think it may have something to do with the cultural norms on this side of the pond, though, which in turn seem to be the product of a kind of...I don't know how to put it, conservatism?...on a level that just doesn't translate in (some parts of?) Europe. I mean, if you grow up your whole life hearing that certain words are taboo and what not, then it probably shouldn't be too surprising that you don't expect to hear them, either, right?

[linguoboy]

Well, of course; I think only Americans ever use the other ones. If my understanding is correct, they're all euphemisms we developed; in fact, I was kind of trying to point out how absurd it was that first, Americans(?) developed darn as a euphemism for damn, and then Americans apparently developed dang as a euphemism for the euphemism because the existing euphemism was not already euphemistic enough.

I'm not sure this is right. The OED marks darn as "Chiefly U.S. colloq." but not dang. Dickens even uses dang. The first attestations are also very close: 1781 for darn and 1793 for dang. So if dang really is a euphemism for a euphemism, then darn became tabooed pretty gosh durn quick.

It's a little sad to think of a variety where expletive inflation has progressed to the point that old standards like hell and damn are indistinguishable from minced oaths like heck and dagnabbit. English-language cursing is impoverished enough compared to that of some other languages so I enjoy having a range all the way from "Cheese and rice!" to "cocksucking buttlicking unclefucker".