Same word with different emotional charges in different languages

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Ciarán12
Re: Same word with different emotional charges in different languages

Postby Ciarán12 » 2018-05-10, 22:41

linguoboy wrote:It's a little sad to think of a variety where expletive inflation has progressed to the point that old standards like hell and damn are indistinguishable from minced oaths like heck and dagnabbit. English-language cursing is impoverished enough compared to that of some other languages so I enjoy having a range all the way from "Cheese and rice!" to "cocksucking buttlicking unclefucker".


I wouldn't say we don't have weaker insults, just that we're more willing to use what for you guys are stronger ones in a more neutral context. We then have to get more nasty with them when we really mean it.
Also, "cheese and rice!"...? Really?

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Re: Same word with different emotional charges in different languages

Postby Dormouse559 » 2018-05-10, 22:52

Ciarán12 wrote:Also, "cheese and rice!"...? Really?

Shut the front door! Franklin Delano! Oh shiitake mushrooms! :P
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Re: Same word with different emotional charges in different languages

Postby Vlürch » 2018-05-11, 19:40

TheStrayCat wrote:One example that comes to my mind is the word żyd/žid/жид. In Western Slavic languages it is the normative word referring to the Jewish people, in Russian (and most varieties of Ukrainian since the 20th century) it is an ethnic slur.

Yeah. IIRC I came across the Russian slurry one before the neutral one, but I don't remember exactly how. What I do remember is that for some reason it surprised me that the neutral one wasn't the slur. Not sure why, though...
vijayjohn wrote:I've noticed that a lot of Europeans seem to consider fuck less offensive than people in Anglophone North America do. I'm not sure whether it's only non-native speakers of English or not, though. (By contrast, I don't recall ever seeing this attitude among Indians). I know some Dutch-speakers who say they have no problem with using or hearing swearwords in English but would take offense on some level at hearing swearwords in Dutch.

When speaking English, not a single Finn in existence could ever go one complete sentence without "fuck" or "fucking". [citation needed]

...that's obviously an exaggeration, but I've actually heard even little kids (including presumably Muslim ones) use "fuck" as an interjection in Finnish (presumably similarly to what you said about the Dutch), so my assumption is that if they were to actually have a conversation in English with someone, all that'd come out would be "fuck fucking fuck, fuck?" or something like that. Maybe a "shit" or two somewhere in there, too. Then again, most people wouldn't use English swearwords in Finnish, only Finnish ones, and of course English ones in English.

I'd have inserted another "citation needed" after the thing about not using English swearwords in Finnish, but I feel like that joke would get kinda boring if it was overdone; besides, in this case it wouldn't even be funny since I think that's actually true, based on my experiences as a Finn (even though I don't interact with people much, so I'm basing a lot of it also on vloggers/bloggers/whatever, who're more likely to use English loanwords than most people, so... I think it's safe to say most Finns would never use English swearwords in Finnish, except maybe sometimes).

Anyway, I know that when I record random videos to upload on Youtube in English, I can't stop myself from swearing no matter how hard I try (or saying shit that comes out wrong and will probably come to haunt me in the future). Same happens in Finnish in everyday life, of course, and I do have to admit I might swear more than most people, but the point is that I'm not alone in this.
vijayjohn wrote:But then I think some people think even dang, shoot, and/or heck are "bad words."

Whenever I hear/see them, I think whoever said/wrote them is trying too hard to be child-friendly. Same with "fudge" for "fuck", etc. I mean, if you want to swear but don't actually do it, what's the point? If it's to protect the innocence of children, why use equivalent words at all? Like, if you wanted to write a book for kids and someone had to be called by an insulting term, why not make up something nonsensical like "bullnabbler" or use a word that shouldn't have any actual potential to offend anyone, like "jellyfish", or whatever?
vijayjohn wrote:He insisted that some students get offended otherwise.

Had someone at least been offended before, or did he just decide that he knows better what offends the students than the students themselves?
linguoboy wrote:pretty gosh durn quick

Hahaha, I'd never heard "durn" before but it's a ridiculously cute word! :D Definitely one of the top one hundred cutest words in English, I think, although not nearly as cute as the word "cute" itself.
linguoboy wrote:"cocksucking buttlicking unclefucker"

Well, there are at least two levels beyond that, but examples of them are probably too taboo to post here... :para:

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Re: Same word with different emotional charges in different languages

Postby OldBoring » 2018-05-13, 22:42

Fuck swear words!

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Re: Same word with different emotional charges in different languages

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-05-13, 23:00

Vlürch wrote:I mean, if you want to swear but don't actually do it, what's the point? If it's to protect the innocence of children, why use equivalent words at all?

Because you're used to swearing.
vijayjohn wrote:He insisted that some students get offended otherwise.

Had someone at least been offended before

According to him, yes.

Karavinka

Re: Same word with different emotional charges in different languages

Postby Karavinka » 2018-05-15, 17:37

親日

ja. /sinnichi/ friendly to Japan, pro-Japanese
ko. /chin'il/ collaborator to Japan during the occupation, national traitor

Ciarán12

Re: Same word with different emotional charges in different languages

Postby Ciarán12 » 2018-05-15, 20:29

Karavinka wrote:親日

ja. /sinnichi/ friendly to Japan, pro-Japanese
ko. /chin'il/ collaborator to Japan during the occupation, national traitor


That reminds me:

(ga) Sasanach - Englishman (neutral)
(en-IE) Sassenach - Englishman (derogatory)

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Re: Same word with different emotional charges in different languages

Postby linguoboy » 2018-05-15, 21:12

(de) Mund mouth
(de) Maul mouth (of an animal; pej. applied to persons)

(yi) moyl mouth
(yi) pisk mouth (of an animal; pej. applied to persons)

Yiddish pisk seems to be related to Common Slavic *пасть "[big] mouth, maw". This isn't the only case where the neutral Yiddish term is pejorative in German and the pejorative term in Yiddish is derived from Slavic.
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Re: Same word with different emotional charges in different languages

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-06-17, 1:52

Apparently, in Swedish, as an intensifier is only used in a sarcastic sense.

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Re: Same word with different emotional charges in different languages

Postby Bubulus » 2018-06-17, 3:30

Spanish cerrar 'to close [sth]' - French serrer 'squeeze, grip, tighten' (serrer dans les bras 'to hug')
Spanish abrazar 'to hug' - French embrasser 'to kiss'
Spanish besar 'to kiss' - French baiser 'to fuck'
Spanish joder 'to fuck [sb] over; annoy/pester; fuck, have sex' - French foutre '(various vulgar verbs meaning "do around here", "put [sth somewhere]", "put on [clothes]")' (se foutre de 'not give a heck about')

Spanish nuca 'back of the neck (informal)' - French nuque 'back of the neck (medical technical term)'

Spanish cagar 'to shit' - French chier 'to shit', chiant 'annoying'

IpseDixit

Re: Same word with different emotional charges in different languages

Postby IpseDixit » 2018-06-17, 10:01

Ser wrote:Spanish cerrar 'to close [sth]' - French serrer 'squeeze, grip, tighten' (serrer dans les bras 'to hug')
Spanish abrazar 'to hug' - French embrasser 'to kiss'
Spanish besar 'to kiss' - French baiser 'to fuck'
Spanish joder 'to fuck [sb] over; annoy/pester; fuck, have sex' - French foutre '(various vulgar verbs meaning "do around here", "put [sth somewhere]", "put on [clothes]")' (se foutre de 'not give a heck about')

Spanish nuca 'back of the neck (informal)' - French nuque 'back of the neck (medical technical term)'

Spanish cagar 'to shit' - French chier 'to shit', chiant 'annoying'


This is not what I meant. Most of them are simply false friends.

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Re: Same word with different emotional charges in different languages

Postby JackFrost » 2018-06-19, 10:26

Ser wrote:Spanish cerrar 'to close [sth]' - French serrer 'squeeze, grip, tighten' (serrer dans les bras 'to hug')

Ok, but what so vulgar/emotionally different about that one?

Spanish besar 'to kiss' - French baiser 'to fuck'

It can mean kiss in traditional sense, but you'd have to use it in specific contexts to make it mean that.

But still, somewhat off-topic. Not that I think you intended that.
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