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Alharacas wrote:His /o/ always sounds like "oa" to me, his /e/ like a strong "ä". This makes his German very hard to understand (frustrating for him and everybody else).
linguoboy wrote:When L2 speakers don't lengthen the vowel in bed, native speakers are likely to mistake it for bet. (I have a German friend whose English is otherwise fluent and it took me the longest time to figure out why it sounded like he was devoicing final obstruents when he wasn't. This was the reason.)
kevin wrote:linguoboy wrote:When L2 speakers don't lengthen the vowel in bed, native speakers are likely to mistake it for bet. (I have a German friend whose English is otherwise fluent and it took me the longest time to figure out why it sounded like he was devoicing final obstruents when he wasn't. This was the reason.)
This is interesting. For myself, I feel that remembering to avoid the final devoicing is much harder than using different vowel lengths, so as another native German speaker, I'm likely to make the exactly opposite mistake.
Alharacas wrote:Yes, of course there are other issues at play, any number of them. Word stress for one (I can't figure out the rules for word stress in Turkish, that doesn't help, either, otherwise I might be able to point out the difference)
Alharacas wrote:not differentiating between long and short vowels (Turkish doesn't have those)
Alharacas wrote:he tends to forget that "z" sounds like "ts" in German, the "h" in "wohnen" is silent
Alharacas wrote:and the "w" is not pronunced the way he thinks it is (rather like an "f") - that kind of thing which needs practice. So, all in all he tends to end up with something approximating "Ee phonEY" for "ich wohne".
Car wrote:kevin wrote:linguoboy wrote:When L2 speakers don't lengthen the vowel in bed, native speakers are likely to mistake it for bet. (I have a German friend whose English is otherwise fluent and it took me the longest time to figure out why it sounded like he was devoicing final obstruents when he wasn't. This was the reason.)
This is interesting. For myself, I feel that remembering to avoid the final devoicing is much harder than using different vowel lengths, so as another native German speaker, I'm likely to make the exactly opposite mistake.
Same for me. Actually, I think I automatically tend to lengthen them because it makes it easier not to devoice the following consonants.
linguoboy wrote:Car wrote:kevin wrote:linguoboy wrote:When L2 speakers don't lengthen the vowel in bed, native speakers are likely to mistake it for bet. (I have a German friend whose English is otherwise fluent and it took me the longest time to figure out why it sounded like he was devoicing final obstruents when he wasn't. This was the reason.)
This is interesting. For myself, I feel that remembering to avoid the final devoicing is much harder than using different vowel lengths, so as another native German speaker, I'm likely to make the exactly opposite mistake.
Same for me. Actually, I think I automatically tend to lengthen them because it makes it easier not to devoice the following consonants.
Isn't this a widespread feature among Austro-Bavarian varieties?
linguoboy wrote:Siehe §6: http://www.bairische-sprache.at/Index/Remaraweng%20Boarisch%20-%20Lehren/Lautlehre-1.htm
linguoboy wrote:Same for me. Actually, I think I automatically tend to lengthen them because it makes it easier not to devoice the following consonants.
Isn't this a widespread feature among Austro-Bavarian varieties?
Alharacas wrote:Any ideas on what to do about the (invariably soft) "z"? Other than to pencil in a /ts/ above every "z" in the text?
linguoboy wrote:Alharacas wrote:he tends to forget that "z" sounds like "ts" in German, the "h" in "wohnen" is silent
Maybe encourage him to think of medial <h> as the equivalent of <ğ> (which is often pronounced only as lengthening of the previous vowel)?
vijayjohn wrote:If it helps you feel any better, my English is a little weird sometimes, too. E.g. "gimme a fruit" is a perfectly grammatical utterance for me.
OldBoring wrote:vijayjohn wrote:If it helps you feel any better, my English is a little weird sometimes, too. E.g. "gimme a fruit" is a perfectly grammatical utterance for me.
So what are you supposed to say in English? A piece of fruit?
That sounds weird to me. Cause if I hear piece, I imagine fruit cut into pieces, like in fruit salad.
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