Wanderlust support group 5

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Re: Wanderlust support group 5

Postby Osias » 2020-12-16, 1:17

Oi, você por aqui!
2017 est l'année du (fr) et de l'(de) pour moi. Parle avec moi en eux, s'il te plait.

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Re: Wanderlust support group 5

Postby vijayjohn » 2020-12-16, 2:43

Welcome back, Mike! :D

Could I help you learn some Malayalam? Or maybe even help you with Tamil. I've been (sort of) trying to review some vocabulary and lines of poetry in Malayalam lately myself.

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Re: Wanderlust support group 5

Postby OldBoring » 2020-12-16, 16:45

vijayjohn wrote:Welcome back, Mike! :D

Could I help you learn some Malayalam? Or maybe even help you with Tamil. I've been (sort of) trying to review some vocabulary and lines of poetry in Malayalam lately myself.

Nobody wants to learn Mayalayam.
The default Dravidian languages are Tamil and Telugu.

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Re: Wanderlust support group 5

Postby dEhiN » 2020-12-16, 17:27

Michael wrote:I have been re-afflicted with the wanderlust bug for Dravidian as of late, and to a lesser extent for Indo-Aryan (w/Urdu). I've amassed enough of a variety of resources for Tamil, in particular, at this point by now in my life that I now have no excuse not to seriously (re-)pursue my study of the language. I did complete a whole 25-lesson intro course some 6-7 years ago focusing on the basics of Tamil grammar, for which I did handwritten exercises in a notebook that I have so far failed to locate (I don't want to give up on finding it tho). I'm starting out by going over that particular resource all the way from the beginning. I'm looking to eventually foray into Telugu, inshAllah!

வணக்கம் மாயிக்கள், எப்படி சுகம்? What resource did you use for Tamil 6-7 years ago? I remember you being interested. Would you be up for forming a study group? I'd love to help you out and refresh stuff together.
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Re: Wanderlust support group 5

Postby vijayjohn » 2020-12-16, 18:32

OldBoring wrote:The default Dravidian languages are Tamil and Telugu.

News to me, I remember Meera pointing out that Telugu is one of the most underrated languages ever
dEhiN wrote:எப்படி சுகம்?

:D This expression sounds so cute to my Malayalee ears. It almost sounds to me as if instead of asking "how are you?" before someone else says "fine," you asked, "How fine are you?" :lol:
What resource did you use for Tamil 6-7 years ago? I remember you being interested.

I'm pretty sure it was Tamil Language in Context.
Would you be up for forming a study group? I'd love to help you out and refresh stuff together.

I'd be up for one, too. It would be easier for me than like any other study group I'm part of. :P

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Re: Wanderlust support group 5

Postby księżycowy » 2020-12-16, 21:31

vijayjohn wrote:
dEhiN wrote:Would you be up for forming a study group? I'd love to help you out and refresh stuff together.

I'd be up for one, too. It would be easier for me than like any other study group I'm part of. :P

*raises hand*
Me! Me! Me!
(Even if I just pull a David, and do it to be a "cool kid". 8-) )

And let face it, Vijay. You aren't gonna do shit for the two other study groups. :P

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Re: Wanderlust support group 5

Postby OldBoring » 2020-12-16, 22:35

vijayjohn wrote:
OldBoring wrote:The default Dravidian languages are Tamil and Telugu.

News to me, I remember Meera pointing out that Telugu is one of the most underrated languages ever

Well after all this is Unilang :silly:

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Re: Wanderlust support group 5

Postby vijayjohn » 2020-12-17, 2:58

OldBoring wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:
OldBoring wrote:The default Dravidian languages are Tamil and Telugu.

News to me, I remember Meera pointing out that Telugu is one of the most underrated languages ever

Well after all this is Unilang :silly:

Telugu has more speakers than Tamil, though, and also more than all of the Wu varieties combined.

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Re: Wanderlust support group 5

Postby Michael » 2020-12-17, 4:58

Osias wrote:Oi, você por aqui!

Oi! Sim, estou de volta mais uma vez. :)

vijayjohn wrote:Welcome back, Mike! :D

Could I help you learn some Malayalam? Or maybe even help you with Tamil. I've been (sort of) trying to review some vocabulary and lines of poetry in Malayalam lately myself.

Hello, and thank you! :3

I wouldn't be opposed to that in principle, but for now I must stay focused entirely on Tamil, at least until I get to a point of being able to comfortably use it. However, I wouldn't mind some links to any Malayalam or even Telugu songs you may recommend!

dEhiN wrote:வணக்கம் மாயிக்கள், எப்படி சுகம்? What resource did you use for Tamil 6-7 years ago? I remember you being interested. Would you be up for forming a study group? I'd love to help you out and refresh stuff together.

வணக்கம்! நில்ல இருக்கிறேன், எப்படி உனக்கு? I used a PDF resource, one of the first I had come across for the language 8 years ago. I didn't acquire Tamil Language in Context until much, much later. And sure, I'd be up for that!
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Re: Wanderlust support group 5

Postby dEhiN » 2020-12-17, 6:48

vijayjohn wrote:
dEhiN wrote:எப்படி சுகம்?

:D This expression sounds so cute to my Malayalee ears. It almost sounds to me as if instead of asking "how are you?" before someone else says "fine," you asked, "How fine are you?" :lol:

As far as I know, in Tamil, it means health. Or, at least, asking eppadi suuham is like "how's your health." I guess it's similar to (o) genki desuka in Japanese where genki can mean health in the context of the question but a response like genki desu just means "fine".

księżycowy wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:
Would you be up for forming a study group? I'd love to help you out and refresh stuff together.

I'd be up for one, too. It would be easier for me than like any other study group I'm part of. :P

*raises hand*
Me! Me! Me!
(Even if I just pull a David, and do it to be a "cool kid". 8-)

You can never be as "cool" as me! :silly:

Michael wrote:
Osias wrote:Oi, você por aqui!

Oi! Sim, estou de volta mais uma vez. :)

O quê significa "você por aqui" em esto caso? Entendo "estou de volta mais uma vez".

Michael wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:Could I help you learn some Malayalam? Or maybe even help you with Tamil. I've been (sort of) trying to review some vocabulary and lines of poetry in Malayalam lately myself.

I wouldn't be opposed to that in principle, but for now I must stay focused entirely on Tamil, at least until I get to a point of being able to comfortably use it. However, I wouldn't mind some links to any Malayalam or even Telugu songs you may recommend!

May I ask why the interest in Tamil? Or, specifically, why the desire to stay focused entirely on Tamil to the point of being able to comfortable use it? (Also, looking at your signature, I can see that you've added some languages to your list! I have to say, I'm kinda jealous, especially seeing OE on there. What are you using for OE and when did you start learning it?)

Michael wrote:வணக்கம்! நில்லநல்ல இருக்கிறேன், நீ எப்படி உனக்கு? I used a PDF resource, one of the first I had come across for the language 8 years ago. I didn't acquire Tamil Language in Context until much, much later. And sure, I'd be up for that!

Casually, instead of fully saying irukkiREn, you could say irukka or irukkEn. The latter is more used in Indian spoken Tamil, though they I think nasalize the ending to something like irukkẼ. I've never heard that used by Lankans, just irukka /ɪɾɯkːə/. Also, dative subjects aren't used when asking how someone is doing. The two ways I've heard it are to use subject pronouns before eppadi, or to start with eppadi and follow with a conjugation of iru: எப்படி இருக்கிறாய் or எப்படி இருக்கிறீர்கள். Although, again, you can say irukkIngaL* or irukkInga in casual contexts, though I've only heard the latter used in Indian Tamil. I think irukkIRAy can become irukkAy colloquially, but I'm not 100 percent sure of that.

*It's always been odd to me that the 2PL subject pronoun ends in ngaL, yet formally the 2PL person marker for verbs is rkaL but then colloquially it become nga(L).

Anyway, as for the study group, we have to pick a medium to use. We could form a study group here on UL in the South Asian languages board, or we could use a social media platform. Vijay, księżycowy and I are using Google Hangouts for the Japanese, Polish and German study groups that we've formed. Michael, would you be up for using that? Personally, I'd prefer Hangouts or maybe Whatsapp, though I'm find with forming a study group on here. What about Vijay and księżycowy? What do you two think?
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Re: Wanderlust support group 5

Postby księżycowy » 2020-12-17, 9:22

dEhiN wrote:You can never be as "cool" as me! :silly:

"Cool" being the keyword. Air quotes and ałl.
(Also, looking at your signature, I can see that you've added some languages to your list! I have to say, I'm kinda jealous, especially seeing OE on there. What are you using for OE and when did you start learning it?)

You and OE. :silly:


Anyway, as for the study group, we have to pick a medium to use. We could form a study group here on UL in the South Asian languages board, or we could use a social media platform. Vijay, księżycowy and I are using Google Hangouts for the Japanese, Polish and German study groups that we've formed. Michael, would you be up for using that? Personally, I'd prefer Hangouts or maybe Whatsapp, though I'm find with forming a study group on here. What about Vijay and księżycowy? What do you two think?

I guess I would be fine with whatever. I mean, I'm not sure I'll be doing shit for the study group anytime soon anyway. :P

Only two things of note are:
1. I don't have WhatsApp
2. Malayalam is superior.

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Re: Wanderlust support group 5

Postby Osias » 2020-12-17, 12:33

dEhiN wrote:
Michael wrote:
Osias wrote:Oi, você por aqui!

Oi! Sim, estou de volta mais uma vez. :)

O quê significa "você por aqui" neste caso? Entendo "estou de volta mais uma vez".

"You here". O "por" é supérfluo, literalmente seria algo como "you at/by here".
2017 est l'année du (fr) et de l'(de) pour moi. Parle avec moi en eux, s'il te plait.

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Re: Wanderlust support group 5

Postby vijayjohn » 2020-12-19, 6:52

Michael wrote:I wouldn't be opposed to that in principle, but for now I must stay focused entirely on Tamil, at least until I get to a point of being able to comfortably use it.

But as I said, I may be able to help you with Tamil, too!
However, I wouldn't mind some links to any Malayalam or even Telugu songs you may recommend!

I've posted some in the song threads for Malayalam and Telugu (but some of the links in the Malayalam thread at least are dead now :(). I tried to translate the lyrics of some of the first several songs I posted in Malayalam into English, too.
I didn't acquire Tamil Language in Context until much, much later.

Ah, my bad.
And sure, I'd be up for that!

Yay!
dEhiN wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:
dEhiN wrote:எப்படி சுகம்?

:D This expression sounds so cute to my Malayalee ears. It almost sounds to me as if instead of asking "how are you?" before someone else says "fine," you asked, "How fine are you?" :lol:

As far as I know, in Tamil, it means health.

In Malayalam, too, although I think of it more as 'comfort' since I think ஆரோக்கியம் is the more common term for 'health' (e.g. in a context like 'exercise is good for your health'). But the equivalent to "how are you?" that I default to in Malayalam literally means 'how are (you) sitting?' and the reply literally means 'comfort itself', and I've never heard any word for 'how' paired with சுகம் in Malayalam, so for me it just kind of sounds like 'how fine'. :D
Or, at least, asking eppadi suuham is like "how's your health."

You mean suham?
I guess it's similar to (o) genki desuka in Japanese where genki can mean health in the context of the question but a response like genki desu just means "fine".

Genki literally means 'healthy' as well as 'health'. And yeah, I know it makes sense, but it just sounds funny when compared to Malayalam, like a lot of those cute minor false friends between Malayalam and Tamil. :)
Michael wrote:வணக்கம்! நில்லநல்ல இருக்கிறேன், நீ எப்படி உனக்கு?

I thought in Centamil it would be நன்றாக and in Koduntamil in this context it would be நல்லா or something since it's an adverb (whereas நல்ல would be an adjective).

Also, are you sure you can say just நீ எப்படி?
Casually, instead of fully saying irukkiREn, you could say irukka or irukkEn. The latter is more used in Indian spoken Tamil, though they I think nasalize the ending to something like irukkẼ.

That's because that's how word-final nasals are typically treated in Indian Tamil.
I've never heard that used by Lankans, just irukka /ɪɾɯkːə/.

Conversely, I've never seen or heard Indians say இருக்க, only இருக்கேன், I think.
irukkIRAy can become irukkAy colloquially, but I'm not 100 percent sure of that.

*irukkiRAy becomes irukke.
*It's always been odd to me that the 2PL subject pronoun ends in ngaL, yet formally the 2PL person marker for verbs is rkaL but then colloquially it become nga(L).

I'm sure there's a historical reason for this (IIRC, there at least used to be an animacy distinction in 2nd person singular pronouns as well as in 3SG with நீர் being specifically the animate 2SG pronoun, in addition to a word for 'liquid' or 'juice', I guess. :hmm: So I guess நீர் + கள் changed to நீங்கள் whereas the verb ending didn't change?).
Anyway, as for the study group, we have to pick a medium to use.

Please, let's use the South Asian languages forum where I'm the mod! UL in general could definitely use all the activity it can get at this point.
księżycowy wrote:Malayalam is superior.

:o

Forgot to respond to this btw:
OldBoring wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:Both are intriguing - the Mandarin loans in Mongolian and the Mongolian placenames in China.

I'm sure they are, but I don't know anything about the Mongolian placenames in China.
Urban Mongolian food is a bit different from traditional nomadic food, and both quite different from "Mongolian barbecue" which isn't even Mongolian. We used to have a restaurant locally that served бууз (Mongolian dumplings), цуйван (noodle stew) and sometimes тараг (yoghurt) or other Mongolian dishes, but also had the (Taiwanese-origin) enormous grill that is expected by Americanas when one mentions "Mongolian" food, even though it isn't actually Mongolian. And the restaurant in question also had Thai food. So kind of Mongolian-Taiwanese-Thai Asian fusion. :mrgreen:

Yes, but what confused me was the way that I saw Mongolian food being characterized as just meat, meat, and more meat and Vegetables Are A Rarity In This Harsh Dry Climate How Dare You Expect To See Any At All You Foreign Beach Bonfire Scum. It looks like Mongolians really do eat some vegetables fairly often, just in small quantities with lots of meat. It also confused me that the Lonely Planet Mongolian Phrasebook said something like you can't get breakfast cereal in Mongolia, yet Saveur also claims that kimchi is everywhere in Mongolia. Seeing these videos, though, it makes some more cultural sense to me.

Not even Hohhot 呼和浩特?

Sure, I figured Hohhot was from Mongolian (though it's actually pretty different from the original Mongolian), and I know about Menggu and han for khan, but I think that's about it.
Is the Lonely Planet written in the 90s? A lot of things have changed.

Which also surprises me!

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Re: Wanderlust support group 5

Postby awrui » 2020-12-19, 12:39

vijayjohn wrote:Yes, but what confused me was the way that I saw Mongolian food being characterized as just meat, meat, and more meat and Vegetables Are A Rarity In This Harsh Dry Climate How Dare You Expect To See Any At All You Foreign Beach Bonfire Scum. It looks like Mongolians really do eat some vegetables fairly often, just in small quantities with lots of meat.


I was told that, too- by people who've never even been to Mongolia.
Ulanbatar has more vegetarian restaurants than my "civilised" and "hip" home city. All restaurants can do some vegetarian food, most have some vegetarian (mostly vegan) dishes on their menu. There are fresh vegetables available at supermarkeds, even if the selection might be limited (of course there are dried and canned foods), and kimchi (it is f-ing everywhere). The supermarkeds are full of korean stuff, like kimchi, instant noodles, seaweed and candy. Bread and ajvar are also popular, so are seeds and nuts.
So for tourists there is definitely no problem being vegetarian in Mongolia. I think those travel guides are written by people who are are better humans than us one-time tourists /s and they are not aware of other experiences than their own.
I found that the foods that are used most are rice and flour. Then comes milk. Then comes meat. Then comes vegetables. Guests are often presented with small jam-filled cakes. A lot of people who don't eat enough vegetables and can afford it take vitamin supplements.

Anyways, here is my recipe for buuz spice: salt, pepper, parsley, cumin, ginger, coriander, onion, garlic, (glutamate). As filling, you can use carrots, potatoes, cabbage, tofu, and whatever. The spice is also great on fried noodles.

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Re: Wanderlust support group 5

Postby Yasna » 2020-12-25, 21:11

Okay, I'm going to go spend the rest of my day on Hindi now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=056_kWI9x8k
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Re: Wanderlust support group 5

Postby dEhiN » 2020-12-29, 16:40

Yasna wrote:Okay, I'm going to go spend the rest of my day on Hindi now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=056_kWI9x8k

I love that she was like "Screwed...am I allowed to say that?", and then right after she refines the translation to "deep shit" without blinking an eye! :D
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Re: Wanderlust support group 5

Postby vijayjohn » 2020-12-30, 17:26

They do mean roughly the same thing, to be fair.

I've heard most of these expressions before but didn't know the meanings she described for almost any of them. Beedu and rokda I've never heard, and I suspect beedu is probably specific to Bambaiyya Hindi or something because there's tons of regional variation for the word 'brother' (bhaauji in Bhojpuri and bhra and bhaanji in Punjabi, for example). Jhakaas I've definitely come across; I would've ventured a translation of 'awesome' although the term I usually see for that seems to be zabardast. Didn't know haddi, let alone kabab mein haddi. Also didn't know waat (lag gayi/laga diya); I assume waat laga diya means 'screwed over' (whereas waat lag gayi I guess means 'got screwed').

Incidentally, in the example sentence she uses for beedu, i.e. kya bolta hai, beedu?, kya bolta hai itself IIUC is a pretty slangy or at least informal expression. She translates it literally as 'what are you saying?' but I think in that context, a more accurate translation might be just 'what's up?'.

Chikni literally means 'oily, fat, rich, smooth'. Bindaas I'm pretty sure I've heard, but I never remember what it means. Hat ke I feel I hear conflicting definitions of (or that might just be my memory); I encountered it in a very old but well-known Bollywood song. Aunty of course I know. That's not even Hindi per se; that's like every South Indian language ever among middle class people. :hmm: Didn't really know how people these days use it, though. Fattu is another word I'm sure I've heard before but don't remember what it means. Chirkut is literally a kind of masala/spice mixture among the Koli fishwives who are indigenous to Mumbai. Arre yaar I know (but the only concrete example of its use I can think of is this). Bevda and hava aane de I don't recall ever hearing. Jai ho, well, who hasn't heard that one? Jai is practically my name! :P Bakra literally means 'he-goat'. I can never remember what dhansu means, but the only place where I remember hearing it is at the end of this rather intentionally silly 90s Bollywood song that I happen to also have on audiocassette in Austin.

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Re: Wanderlust support group 5

Postby Linguaphile » 2020-12-30, 19:02

vijayjohn wrote:regional variation for the word 'brother'

bhra in Punjabi, for example)

I've always like this one in Punjabi (ਭਰਾ / بھرا). So easy to remember. :mrgreen:

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Re: Wanderlust support group 5

Postby vijayjohn » 2020-12-30, 20:06

I forgot to mention that chikni and bakra have cognates in Romani as well (closer to the literal senses, of course: čiken means something like 'fat, butter, oil', and bakro means '(male) sheep').

EDIT: BTW IIRC, chirkut (again in the literal sense of a masala or spice mixture from the Konkan Coast where IIUC Mumbai is located) has Sichuan peppercorns.

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Re: Wanderlust support group 5

Postby Osias » 2021-01-03, 0:31

Japanese because of a Globo TV story how about how Japan is preparing for the Olympics.
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