Wanderlust support group 5

[Yasna]

If it wasn't for this forum, I would practically never wanderlust for Irish or any other Celtic language.

[linguoboy]

*bosa in airde as Gaeilge*

[linguoboy]

Kalaw Lagaw Ya.

[ceid donn]

I read this article and started wanderlusting for Telugu https://www.bbc.com/news/world-45902204

...but then the mail came, and my Kanji workbook arrived and I remembered why I am avoiding any other language that would require me to learn a new script.

[ceid donn]

Ok, still wanderlusting for Telugu, but now also modern Greek.

Well, at least I already know the Greek script.

[Luís]

I'm currently watching Fauda (an Israeli TV series) and half the dialogues are actually in (Palestinian) Arabic. I'm amazed at how many words I can pick up simply because they sound similar to their Hebrew equivalents (and my Hebrew vocabulary is rather limited, a fluent Hebrew speaker might understand a lot more)

So, yeah, now I'm wanderlusting for Arabic

[voron]

I am in Antalya again, and hearing German all around makes me wanderlust for German.

If I ever decide to learn another European language, that will be German for sure.

And if I decide to permanently stay in Antalya and quit my boring programming job (which does cross my mind from time to time), Turkish+English+Russian+Arabic+German will be a killing combo for working in the tourism sector. I'll literally be everyone's babelfish.

[ceid donn]

German's not that hard. Standard German, that it. It has some weird stuff and there are a few things you'll simply have to memorize, but it's not that hard. It makes more sense than English so if you can learn English, you shouldn't find German too difficult. It's definitely useful to know, even if just for reading comprehension.

I'm doing a bit of German review myself right now...

I'm still wanderlusting for Telugu. I honestly think it's the prettiest South Asian language I've heard so far and its script seems easier than devanagari.

[księżycowy]

Telugu script reminds me of Burmese script. Great, now I'm wanderlusting for Burmese!

[księżycowy]

Hungarian.

[voron]

German's not that hard.

I don't find German hard; in fact, I already know most of its grammar. I still need to devote a lot of time to learning the vocabulary if I want to get anywhere beyond the basics, though.

[Yasna]

Italian. WHY??!!!!

[Ciarán12]

Italian. WHY??!!!!

I will if you will. I'll also stop stoking the flames of your apparent Irish wanderlust.

[kevin]

I will if you will. I'll also stop stoking the flames of your apparent Irish wanderlust.

I don't like that second part. Instead, you could stoke the flames of your own Irish wanderlust, too, for symmetry.

[Ciarán12]

I don't like that second part. Instead, you could stoke the flames of your own Irish wanderlust, too, for symmetry.

Well, I just read a post on the Gaeilge Amháin facebook page that linked to an article which made my blood boil again over some people in the Irish language revival community's attitudes to non-Gaeltacht Irish (and non-Gaeltacht people). So not in the most pro-Irish learning mood right now to say the least...

[kevin]

I honestly don't understand why you allow such things to influence you so much. It's a known fact that for some reason the Irish language seems to also attract people with, let's say, unhelpful attitudes. I encounter comments and statements regarding Irsh that I don't agree with all the time. Sometimes I tell them that I disagree, often I don't and just dismiss it. But I never allow it to influence my view on the language. I know enough other Irish speakers who are wonderful people to know that it's not the fault of the language.

By the way, I never had the impression that you used "strongly English-influenced non-native jargon" as the blog says, but you always try to find a good Irish way of saying things. Sure, you don't strive to copy one specific native dialect, but in my opinion that's a completely different thing. So maybe you shouldn't even feel addressed this time.

[ceid donn]

I honestly don't understand why you allow such things to influence you so much.

I'm not Irish, just an Irish-Scottish-French American lass who's 3 generations removed from Ireland, yet I 100% understand. And it's really not helpful to suggest that this is due to someone letting something "trivial" influence them too much. I started learning Scottish Gaelic years ago now, and I still have times where I just need to have whatever mood I'm having about it. And I'm the same with Irish. It's not about "not letting it get to us" when someone is rubbing salt on an intergenerational wound. It's about learning how to live with the hand we've been dealt. I wish it was easier. If I had the choice to make it easier, I would choose so. But life doesn't work like that, not for those of us whose very intimate sense of belonging and identity has been wounded by centuries of oppression, colonialism and hostility, some of which qualifies as acts of genocide by our contemporary international standards today.

It isn't beyond the ability of a non-Gael to be sensitive to this--you just have to be willing to feel our pain with us. Michael Bauer, who's Chinese-German and as far as I know, has no Gael in him, has devoted his life's work to Scottish Gaelic, and I've seen him post tweets raging about anything from the brutal historical policies that led to the swift decline of Gaelic in the Highlands to how contemporary politicians gloss over the historical reality of the Gaelic language in Scottish culture. But that's because he has chosen to care. If you choose not to care, OK, but if you do, don't tell us we're getting upset about something not worth being upset about. You've chosen to opt out this fight that we're stuck with, so you don't get to judge.

[kevin]

I understand that this is a thing, and while I'm not wanting to get too invested in that fight myself, I also try not to be insensitive towards it. I feel, however, that this is a different thing: Language purists versus people who just want to use the language, and you'll find Gaels and non-Gaels on both sides, both thinking they are doing the best for the language and culture. I know of some of the negative experiences that Ciarán has made in the past with purists and his views on how he wants to learn and use Irish, and I think it's mostly these experiences that are the reason why he reacted the way he did. Ciarán, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyway, thanks for letting me know that the Gaelic languages are only for True Gaels, which I'm not, and that I should be happy to see people discouraged from continuing with their heritage language when they come across a stupid comment. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I won't stop learning Irish anyway, and I doubt I'll be very successful with being happy about people stopping with Irish.

[linguoboy]

Anyway, thanks for letting me know that the Gaelic languages are only for True Gaels, which I'm not, and that I should be happy to see people discouraged from continuing with their heritage language when they come across a stupid comment. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I won't stop learning Irish anyway, and I doubt I'll be very successful with being happy about people stopping with Irish.

In ainm Chroim, that's not what ceid donn said. She specifically gave the example of a non-Gael who, in her opinion, has striven to understand some of the baggage carried around by Irish- and Gaelic-speakers for whom it's a heritage language, whether living in the diaspora or not.

The point is there are ways to encourage people to learn and use Irish and trivialising their bad experiences with purists and other critics is not one of them.

[kevin]

She specifically gave the example of a non-Gael who, in her opinion, has striven to understand some of the baggage carried around by Irish- and Gaelic-speakers for whom it's a heritage language, whether living in the diaspora or not.

Which carries the implied message of "look, that's the minimum that you have to do if you want me to accept you - and you're not even getting close". Of course, this is nothing new. Not being accepted because you're not Gaelic enough is just one of the unhelpful things I mentioned that happen in the Irish language community. I can live with it.

I have no problem not being accepted by ceid donn, and in fact have for a long time avoided replying to her in case of doubt, and definitly avoided giving her anything that might look like an advice or doing even more horrible things like correcting errors on a language forum, because she seems to think that I'm just generally not a worthy conversation partner and trying to be helpful is interpreted as being a smartass. Avoiding her is fine by me, but then I'd prefer if she left me alone as well.

Anyway, now ceid donn has explained to me how Ciarán feels, and you explained to me what ceid donn means. How about we wait what Ciarán wants to say, if anything? I think he knows me better than either of you do.