Wanderlust support group 5

[dEhiN]

(Keep in mind that in Estonian k is the second degree of quantity of g. So gula essentially the same as kuula but with shortened quantity)

What do you mean by degree of quantity? I take it this is a Finnic (or specifically Estonian) phonological thing? I've never heard the term used before in any phonological context, so I'm curious.

[Linguaphile]

(Keep in mind that in Estonian k is the second degree of quantity of g. So gula essentially the same as kuula but with shortened quantity)

What do you mean by degree of quantity? I take it this is a Finnic (or specifically Estonian) phonological thing? I've never heard the term used before in any phonological context, so I'm curious.

Yes, it is phonemic length. There are three (in Estonian; Finnish has two) and they are called degrees of quantity or notated as Q1, Q2, Q3. But you can also just call them "lengths".
The second and third degree of quantity are distinguished in writing only for /t/, /k/, and /p/ (d-t-tt, g-k-kk, b-p-pp). For all other sounds the second and third degree are spelled the same, but pronounced differently.
They are important because, for example, Q2 saada means "send" but Q3 saada means "receive".

Q1: kada "slingshot" = first degree of quantity (i.e., shorter t sound)
Q2: kata "cover" imperative ("cover!") = second degree of quantity (i.e., long t sound)
Q3: katta "cover" infinitive ("to cover") = third degree of quantity (i.e., overlong t sound)

Q1: kabi "hoof" = first degree of quantity (i.e., shorter p sound)
Q2: kapi "cabinet" genitive = second degree of quantity (i.e., long p sound)
Q3: kappi "cabinet" partitive = third degree of quantity (i.e., overlong p sound)

Q1: sada "hundred" = first degree of quantity (i.e., shorter a sound)
Q2: saada "send" imperative ("send!") = second degree of quantity (i.e., long a sound)
Q3: saada "get, receive" infinitive ("to receive") = third degree of quantity (i.e., overlong a sound)

Q1: lina "linen, flax" = first degree of quantity (i.e., shorter n sound)
Q2: linna "city" genitive ("of the city") = second degree of quantity (i.e., long n sound)
Q3: linna "city" illative ("into the city") = third degree of quantity (i.e., overlong n sound)

[Lur]

Three lengths is a bit too much for my tiny Spanish brain.

Sometimes, I feel like I can't learn to pronounce anything correctly...

[księżycowy]

The length distinctions is one of the things that drew me to Estonian.

[Lur]

How about Karelian. It has brand new palatalizations.

I keep wondering which Slavic language is the best introduction to Slavic features (whatever they are) and vocabulary, but then a voice in my head tells me to look at Lithuanian and Greek instead, but then another voice in my head tells me to stop because it's nuts.

I never know what to do. I'd be less fussed about it if I didn't want to emigrate

[Antea]

I am also trying to learn Karelian, but I am going step by step

[księżycowy]

How about Karelian. It has brand new palatalizations.

I'm not sure what you mean by "brand new", but eh.

Estonian has enough palatalization to please me.

[vijayjohn]

Honestly, the only reason why I know of "Ájges ájggáj" is because someone nominated it in one of the Forum Song Contests once.

[Linguaphile]

Honestly, the only reason why I know of "Ájges ájggáj" is because someone nominated it in one of the Forum Song Contests once.

But we've moved on, Vijay. Because there are brand new palatalizations.

[vijayjohn]

Just as long as "but we've moved on, Vijay" isn't what you start saying once I start making/getting into study groups for Uralic languages

[Linguaphile]

Just as long as "but we've moved on, Vijay" isn't what you start saying once I start making/getting into study groups for Uralic languages

You're gonna do that?

[Linguaphile]

Three lengths is a bit too much for my tiny Spanish brain.

Sometimes, I feel like I can't learn to pronounce anything correctly...

Actually, the distinction between Q2 and Q3 (long and overlong) is also grammatical, so you can nearly always tell which is meant by the context. Often, they are different declinations of the same noun or different forms of the same verb. Even when they're not, such as with "saada" where it means either "send" or "receive," one (Q2 saada, "send") is an imperative and the other (Q3 saada, "receive") is an infinitive, so if you can't hear the length distinction or if you don't pronounce them correctly, it's still possible to know which is meant based on how it is used in the sentence. Which, by the way, is exactly the same way you read Estonian, since there is no distinction between Q2 and Q3 in writing. So if you don't distinguish between them in speaking, you'll sound like a non-native speaker, but you'll be understood.

[Lur]

Because there are brand new palatalizations.

Just as long as "but we've moved on, Vijay" isn't what you start saying once I start making/getting into study groups for Uralic languages

You're gonna do that?

MARI

NENETS

*slams fist on table*

[księżycowy]

I'd love to eventually join a study group for Estonian. Eventually.

[Lur]

PALEOSIBERIAN OR DEATH

[księżycowy]

I've always wanted to learn Chukchi for some odd reason.

[vijayjohn]

Good thing we have three grammars in English, one textbook in French, and one textbook and one grammar each in Russian for Chukchi!

Just as long as "but we've moved on, Vijay" isn't what you start saying once I start making/getting into study groups for Uralic languages

You're gonna do that?

I certainly could. I mean, why not?

[księżycowy]

Good thing we have three grammars in English, one textbook in French, and one textbook and one grammar each in Russian for Chukchi!

Eh, it's more of a pipe dream than anything else. If I were to go that way, I'd probably just learn Yupik. Siberian Yupik.

[Linguaphile]

Good thing we have three grammars in English, one textbook in French, and one textbook and one grammar each in Russian for Chukchi!

Just as long as "but we've moved on, Vijay" isn't what you start saying once I start making/getting into study groups for Uralic languages

You're gonna do that?

I certainly could. I mean, why not?

No reason why not, I was just surprised because as far as I remember you haven't expressed interest in any Uralic languages before. I mean, I've never seen you on the Estonian or Uralic forums and even in this thread, your contribution to the discussion was basically "I know only one word in Saami and it's from a song I heard and I didn't know what it meant until now." Which doesn't mean you shouldn't want to start, I was just surprised.

[aaakknu]

I'd love to eventually join a study group for Estonian. Eventually.

When you're ready, tell me. I'll create it.