"rocambolesque" expressions

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Re: "rocambolesque" expressions

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-10-25, 22:13

On the day of on the day of today, you have mentioned the word today, but what is it that it is that it?

Just in case anyone has trouble figuring out wtf I just did: I'm attempting a literal translation from French au jour d'aujourd'hui, tu as mentionné le mot hui, mais qu'est-ce que c'est que ça ?

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Re: "rocambolesque" expressions

Postby Osias » 2017-10-26, 0:04

(fr)

Maintenant is a mild case, but I'll always read it like it's the main lieutenant of a Star Trek ship.
2017 est l'année du (fr) et de l'(de) pour moi. Parle avec moi en eux, s'il te plait.

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Re: "rocambolesque" expressions

Postby IpseDixit » 2017-10-27, 10:28

Dormouse559 wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:Also, how about "qu'est-ce que (c'est)" and other examples of enchaînement in French?
Go big or go home! "Qu'est-ce que c'est que ça ?" for "What's that?"


Italian is not as famous as French is for this phenomenon but we use some convoluted phrases too (they just look less extreme because of the pro-drop quality of Italian), some examples:

Che cos'è* che è? - what is it? (lit. what is it that it is?)

Dov'è che è? - where is it? (lit. where is it that it is?)

Quand'è che è? - when is it? (lit. when is it that it is?)

Non è che è...? - could it be [add noun/adjective]? (lit. Is it not that it is [add noun/adjective]?)

---

*The interrogative pronoun for "what" is already a bit convoluted on its own since it's "che cosa" (lit. what thing) [ok, you can also say only "che" or only "cosa", but "che cosa" remains very common too].

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Re: "rocambolesque" expressions

Postby Car » 2017-10-27, 10:46

IpseDixit wrote:*The interrogative pronoun for "what" is already a bit convoluted on its own since it's "che cosa" (lit. what thing) [ok, you can also say only "che" or only "cosa", but "che cosa" remains very common too].

Funny you should bring that up because I was wondering if there are any rules when to use "che", "cosa" or "che cosa" or if you're free to choose.
Please correct my mistakes!

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Re: "rocambolesque" expressions

Postby IpseDixit » 2017-10-27, 10:49

Car wrote:
IpseDixit wrote:*The interrogative pronoun for "what" is already a bit convoluted on its own since it's "che cosa" (lit. what thing) [ok, you can also say only "che" or only "cosa", but "che cosa" remains very common too].

Funny you should bring that up because I was wondering if there are any rules when to use "che", "cosa" or "che cosa" or if you're free to choose.


They're perfectly interchangeable, or at least I can't think of a single instance where one (or two) of them would be ok and the other one(s) would not.

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Re: "rocambolesque" expressions

Postby Luís » 2017-10-27, 10:55

Same thing in Portuguese:

O que é que é isso? (lit. the what it-is that it-is that?)
Quot linguas calles, tot homines vales

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Re: "rocambolesque" expressions

Postby france-eesti » 2017-10-27, 11:20

In French too 8-)
(fr) Qu'est-ce que c'est que ça ?
What is this of this is of that? => What's that? What have you done? (When addressed to a naughty child or dog).

:lol:
My Hungarian teacher, who learns French, cries at this one! :silly:

In contrary I laughed a lot at this one:
(hu)
Ezek között a fák között van egy szürke farkas:
These between a trees between there is a grey wolf.

I thought having to repeat "between" twice was a joke but as long as 2 Hungarians told me it wasn't, then I guess it's not... :shock:
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Re: "rocambolesque" expressions

Postby IpseDixit » 2017-10-27, 11:30

france-eesti wrote: In French too 8-)
(fr) Qu'est-ce que c'est que ça ?
What is this of this is of that? => What's that? What have you done? (When addressed to a naughty child or dog).


Yeah, that's from where the conversation began. :lol:

---

Some Ladin ones:

-zircumzirca (around, about, more or less) which quite clearly comes from (la) circum (around) + (la) circa meaning again, around.

-scichedonca (therefore) which is made up of schiche (therefore) + donca (therefore).

-ju per anter (through), literally "down along between".

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Re: "rocambolesque" expressions

Postby Car » 2017-10-27, 18:06

IpseDixit wrote:
Car wrote:
IpseDixit wrote:*The interrogative pronoun for "what" is already a bit convoluted on its own since it's "che cosa" (lit. what thing) [ok, you can also say only "che" or only "cosa", but "che cosa" remains very common too].

Funny you should bring that up because I was wondering if there are any rules when to use "che", "cosa" or "che cosa" or if you're free to choose.


They're perfectly interchangeable, or at least I can't think of a single instance where one (or two) of them would be ok and the other one(s) would not.

Grazie!

One from German:
klammheimlich = on the quiet, clandestine(ly)

heimlich already means secretly, with klamm probably coming from Latin clam which already means the same thing (and is the clan in clandestine).
Please correct my mistakes!

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Re: "rocambolesque" expressions

Postby Ciarán12 » 2017-10-27, 18:27

Osias wrote:(fr)

Maintenant is a mild case, but I'll always read it like it's the main lieutenant of a Star Trek ship.


Makes sense - (en) main + (pt-br) tenente (lieutenant)...

Luís wrote:Same thing in Portuguese:

O que é que é isso? (lit. the what it-is that it-is that?)


Yeah, but at least the spoken language usually sorts it out into a simpler form, e.g. "O que é que você quer?" > "kékseké?". Ditto the original phrase that kicked this post off - "Go raibh maith agat" > "gormad"
Last edited by Ciarán12 on 2017-10-27, 18:34, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "rocambolesque" expressions

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-10-27, 18:48

Ciarán12 wrote:Yeah, but at least the spoken language usually sorts it out into a simpler form, e.g. "O que é que você quer?" > "kékseké?". Ditto the original phrase that kicked this post off - "Go raibh maith agat" > "gormad"

Also French qu'est-ce que c'est? -> kèskecé?

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Re: "rocambolesque" expressions

Postby OldBoring » 2017-10-27, 20:41

I used to write it as kèsxè?

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Re: "rocambolesque" expressions

Postby linguoboy » 2017-10-27, 22:21

IpseDixit wrote:Anyways, something that has always struck me is that English has never felt the need to shorten the phrases "the day after tomorrow" and "the day before yesterday". I propose the coinage of the words "twice-tomorrow" and "twice-yesterday".

My native Russian-speaking coworker says "aftertomorrow", which I think is charming. "Aftermorrow" would be even shorter.

I miss gestern Abend when speaking English so much I've been known to use "yestere'en". But only in writing because no one would catch the meaning in speech.

I'm sure I've been mentioned before seeing an American film dubbed into German and in the scene where one character shouts, "We got a ride!" the German version is "Wir haben eine Mitfahrgelegenheit!" I nearly fell out of my chair. (The German is something like "ride-with opportunity".)
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Re: "rocambolesque" expressions

Postby Homine.Sardu » 2017-10-28, 7:39

linguoboy wrote:
IpseDixit wrote:Anyways, something that has always struck me is that English has never felt the need to shorten the phrases "the day after tomorrow" and "the day before yesterday". I propose the coinage of the words "twice-tomorrow" and "twice-yesterday".

My native Russian-speaking coworker says "aftertomorrow", which I think is charming. "Aftermorrow" would be even shorter.


In Sardinian we use the same formula : pùstis cras = after tomorrow

Speaking about "rocambolesque" expressions there is another word we use as synonymous of aftertomorrow, and it's more used than "pùstis cras".
We use the term "Barigadu" which is the past participle of (sc) Barigare, derived from (la) Varicare = to cross, to traverse, to surpass. (it's the same root of the (it) Varcare, Valicare = to cross, to traverse, to surpass).

Example :

(en) I go there aftertomorrow
(sc) Bi ando pùstis cras
(sc) Bi ando barigadu

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Re: "rocambolesque" expressions

Postby linguoboy » 2017-10-28, 15:27

Catalan demà passat "passed/past tomorrow"
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Re: "rocambolesque" expressions

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-10-28, 15:50

In Malayalam, we say 'the other tomorrow'.

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Re: "rocambolesque" expressions

Postby Kenny » 2017-10-30, 17:46

france-eesti wrote:(hu)
Ezek között a fák között van egy szürke farkas:
These between a trees between there is a grey wolf.

I thought having to repeat "between" twice was a joke but as long as 2 Hungarians told me it wasn't, then I guess it's not... :shock:

To be fair you don't have to, but the alternatives sounds way too sophisticated/literary/contrived even.
(E fák között van egy szürke farkas. / Ezen fák között van egy szürke farkas. / Eme fák között van egy szürke farkas.)
So yeah, you should just stick with the duplicated variety. :-D

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Re: "rocambolesque" expressions

Postby france-eesti » 2017-10-31, 8:51

Köszönöm Gábor!
But to me those two "között" also look very sophisticated/literary/contrived :D
(what is this "E" alone at the beginning of the sentence by the way? :hmm: )
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Re: "rocambolesque" expressions

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-10-31, 16:24

That actually looks pretty neat. What better way to express that something is between two (or more) things than to stick those things between two 'between's? :)

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Re: "rocambolesque" expressions

Postby Osias » 2017-10-31, 16:56

:hmm:
2017 est l'année du (fr) et de l'(de) pour moi. Parle avec moi en eux, s'il te plait.


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