"rocambolesque" expressions

[linguoboy]

I tried to come up with an English equivalent, maybe it's "Talking about X"

"Speaking of X"

Less commonly, "As far as X goes".

[IpseDixit]

I tried to come up with an English equivalent, maybe it's "Talking about X"

"Speaking of X"

Less commonly, "As far as X goes".

And is "as for X" commonly used?

[linguoboy]

I tried to come up with an English equivalent, maybe it's "Talking about X"

"Speaking of X"

Less commonly, "As far as X goes".

And is "as for X" commonly used?

It is, though I would say that one is most common with personal subjects. "As for me" is quite common whereas "speaking of myself" sounds awkward and "as far as I go" makes no sense at all. I just Googled "as for England" and found that most of the hits were sports-related, i.e. "England" here is metonymic for the national team of England in whichever sport. Cf. "speaking of England", which is much more likely to refer to the country.

tl;dr: Yes, but its usage is a little more limited.

[vijayjohn]

I think I could say "as for England" and "as for Brazil."

I was trying to think of the most rocambolesque expression I could come up with in Malayalam, and I noticed that two lines of the poem (205-206) I've been trying to memorize are as follows:

ചാകുന്നേറെജ്ജനമഹികളാലാസ്ഥലത്തെന്നു കേൾപ്പുണ്ടാകുന്നേടത്തറുതിയതിനാലായവറ്റയ്ക്കു ചെയ്ക!
[t͡ʃaːgun̪n̪eːred̚d͡ʒɛnəməhigəɭaːlaːst̪ʰələt̪ɛn̪n̪ɯ keːɭpuɳɖaːgun̪n̪eːɖət̪ərud̪ijəd̪inaːlaːjəʋəttɛkʲɯ t͡ʃejga]!

Meaning something like "Word has it that in that place, lots of people are dying due to serpents, so bring about the destruction of those evil serpents wherever you can!"

[Osias]

In Portuguese it would be "MATA ESSAS COBRA TUDO!!!"

[Michael]

Aujourd'hui. Like seriously? Why not simply hui?
And of course, if you want to stress the concept of today, you can say au jour d'aujourd'hui.

This phrase probably came about due to /wi/ oui on its own meaning “yes”, to the point where it’s become a single word.

[vijayjohn]

Huh? What does oui have to do with aujourd'hui?

[linguoboy]

Huh? What does oui have to do with aujourd'hui?

He's saying that /ui/ and /yi/ are very close in pronunciation, prompting a need to disambiguate them by extending the latter.

I don't know how important that particular resemblance is. /yi/ is just a short word in general, easy to confuse with /i/, /u/, /yil/, etc. I think similar pressures may have favoured, for instance, the displacement of /di/ by /ʒur/.

[linguoboy]

A lot of Korean aspectual constructions can get rather rocambolesque. My favourite was always:

V-지 않으면 안 되다
/V-ci anh.umyen an toyta/

which is roughly "if you don't X, it doesn't become". But it's used to translate "ought", e.g.:

공부하지 않으면 안 돼요. "You ought to study". (Lit. "If don't study, it unbecomes".)

[vijayjohn]

Huh? What does oui have to do with aujourd'hui?

He's saying that /ui/ and /yi/ are very close in pronunciation, prompting a need to disambiguate them by extending the latter.

But then couldn't you say the same thing of any minimal pair of /u/ vs. /y/? Roux, rue, pou, pu, chou, chu...

[Koko]

ᐆᑕᑯᓭᕽ ; ᐋᐧᐸᐦᑭ
otakosihk ; wapahki
yesterday ; tomorrow

ᐊᐊᐧᓯ ᐆᑕᑯᓭᕽ ; ᐊᐊᐧᓯ ᐋᐧᐸᐦᑭ
awasi-otakosihk ; awasi-wapahki
the day before yesterday ; the day after tomorrow

ᑭᐦᒋ ᐊᐊᐧᓯ ᐆᑕᑯᓭᕽ ; ᑭᐦᒋ ᐊᐊᐧᓯ ᐋᐧᐸᐦᑭ
kihci-awasi-otakosihk ; kihci-awasi-wapahki
two days before yesterday ; two days after tomorrow

awasi- means "after, before, beyond," and kihci- means "great, big" (i only know for sure that it's used for "two days before yesterday," i just assume kihci-awasi-wapahki is also a word knowing how Cree tends to work )

[linguoboy]

Huh? What does oui have to do with aujourd'hui?

He's saying that /ui/ and /yi/ are very close in pronunciation, prompting a need to disambiguate them by extending the latter.

But then couldn't you say the same thing of any minimal pair of /u/ vs. /y/? Roux, rue, pou, pu, chou, chu...

Thanks for reading and responding to half of my response.

[vijayjohn]

Huh? What does oui have to do with aujourd'hui?

He's saying that /ui/ and /yi/ are very close in pronunciation, prompting a need to disambiguate them by extending the latter.

But then couldn't you say the same thing of any minimal pair of /u/ vs. /y/? Roux, rue, pou, pu, chou, chu...

Thanks for reading and responding to half of my response.

Sorry, I did read what you wrote and know that's not what you're saying. I wasn't really trying to respond to you because I agree; what I wrote was intended as an objection to what Mike said.

[Ciarán12]

Eu comi rocambole o outro dia... só pra avisar...

But while I'm here:

fazer de conta que - to pretend (lit. to make of account that

- desafortunadamente - unfortunately
I don't know how they can have such a common adverb be 8 syllables long!

[kevin]

And even five syllables are a lot when you can do with two ("leider").

[Osias]

Eu comi rocambole o outro dia... só pra avisar...

Doce ou salgado?

- desafortunadamente - unfortunately
I don't know how they can have such a common adverb be 8 syllables long!

É porque o comum é se usar "infelizmente", que é até mais simples que "unfortunately".

Agora, eu acho que rocambole mesmo é...

malheureusement

[linguoboy]

And even five syllables are a lot when you can do with two ("leider").

I was going to say the same (though if you really want to be brief "sadly" functions quite similarly).

Irish ar an (n)drochuair (lit. "on an evil hour") is a somewhat rocambolesque way of expressing the same thought.

[Ciarán12]

Eu comi rocambole o outro dia... só pra avisar...

Doce ou salgado?

Doce. Tem salgado!?

- desafortunadamente - unfortunately
I don't know how they can have such a common adverb be 8 syllables long!

É porque o comum é se usar "infelizmente", que é até mais simples que "unfortunately".

Se disse "infelizmente" em português, mas eu nunca ouvi "infelizmente" em espanhol, só "desafortunadamente" (o que não existe em português, não é?). De qualquer forma, "unfortunately" e "infelizmente" têm o mesmo comprimento (falando de sílabas, pelo menos).

[Ciarán12]

Irish ar an (n)drochuair (lit. "on an evil hour") is a somewhat rocambolesque way of expressing the same thought.

Yes, but it balances nicely with ar an dea-uair as its opposite, which I like.

[Osias]

Eu comi rocambole o outro dia... só pra avisar...

Doce ou salgado?

Doce. Tem salgado!?

Mais oui, bien sur! Tem de presunto e queijo, por exemplo.

Se disse "infelizmente" em português, mas eu nunca ouvi "infelizmente" em espanhol, só "desafortunadamente" (o que não existe em português, não é?).

Vish, confundi as línguas! "Desafortunadamente" existe, mas é raro.

De qualquer forma, "unfortunately" e "infelizmente" têm o mesmo comprimento (falando de sílabas, pelo menos).

O meu ponto é que o 'núcleo', que é 'feliz', é mais fácil e comum em português que 'fortunate' é, em inglês.