The Spelling Reform Thread

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IpseDixit

Re: The Spelling Reform Thread

Postby IpseDixit » 2017-11-11, 15:35

kevin wrote:I find <z>/<zj> a bit confusing, there's not really any connection between their sounds.

How about <z> for /z/, <c> for /t͡s/ and <cj> for /t͡ɕ/?


I get your point, however /z/ as a phoneme is quite rare (whereas [z] is quite common as an allophone of /s/), so it would be a "waste" to use <z> for /z/ IMO.

As for <c> as /t͡s/, I think it would be too drastic a change to be accepted by the community, moreover it's really something that belongs to the Slavic tradition, with which the Ladin language hasn't really had contact.

However, you made me realize that <sj> would probably be a better choice to represent /z/. <sj> is like saying "position your tongue as you would to pronounce [s] but make it voiced like [ʒ]."

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Re: The Spelling Reform Thread

Postby linguoboy » 2017-11-11, 16:47

kevin wrote:How about <z> for /z/, <c> for /t͡s/ and <cj> for /t͡ɕ/?

I was going to suggest the same!
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Re: The Spelling Reform Thread

Postby Zé do Rock » 2018-01-27, 13:42

[/quote]Back when I had nothing but time on my hands, I tried to come up with phonemic orthographies for English, and Irish, and found out that I was wrong and they're just not workable. Even if you can make one that's consistent between three major dialects, it ends up being so radically different that it would have to be learned from scratch, not to mention butt-ugly.
[quote]

em línguas onde a diferensa entre fala e escrita é mega, uma reforma fonêmica seria realmente chocante.
in languages ware the difference between spoken and written language is strong, a phonemic reform would be shocking indeed.

a mega problem für linguas wie englisch und französisch.
ein groszes problem für sprachen wie englisch und französisch.
a huge problem for languages like english and franch.

but you can make a reform that improve things, even if it is not a phonemic solution.

TESS, the english spelling society, a un "house stile" (hs), une colleccion de changes votés par les membres:
TESS, the english spelling society, has a house stile (hs), a collection of changes voted by their members:

1) cortar letras inútiles (hed, bom, bak)
1) drop useless letters (hed, bom,bak)

2) regularizar as vogais curtas básicas (he sed, wimmen, cumming)
2) regularizar as vocais curtas básicas (he sed, wimmen, cumming)
2) reggularize the basic short vowels (he sed, wimmen, cumming)

3) die langen vocalen regular machen (bate, brite, bote, fule)
3) die langen vokalen regelmäszig machen (bate, brite, bote, fule)
3) reggularize the long vowels (bate, brite, bote, fule)

4) F FOR F - enuf filossofy!

cett lingua ne semble pas comm swahili, elle semble comm inglish.
cett langue ne semble pas comm swahili, ell semble comm inglish.
this language doesnt look like swahili, it looks like english.

mas mismo así, 50% de las palabras son previsibles por reglas y 30% por patrones, solo quedan 20% imprevisibles...
but eeven so, 50% of the words ar predictable by rule and 30% by patterns, so only 20% remane impredictbale...

e também ai RITE, Redusing Iregularitys in Tradicional English, votee bai um grupa menor.
i tamém tem RITE, Redusing Iregularitys in Tradicional English, votado por um grupo menor
and thare is also RITE, Redusing Iregularitys in Tradicional English, voted by a smaller group.

dise reform is fil umfassender, aber ela halde sik an el inglishen musta.
dise reform is vil umfassender, aber sie hält sich an die inglishen muster.
this reform is much mor comprehensiv, but it stil based on inglish patterns.

and it has a good slogan: dont spel 'right', spel RITE!

de toute fasson, i ha des nouvaux videos in youtube, avec des reformees ortografies in 5 linguas.
de toute fasson, jai dee nouveaux vidéos en youtube, avec dés ortograf reformee en 5 langues.
ennyway i hav new veedeos on youtube, with reformd spellings in 5 languages.

e ik introduce europano, a mix af al europano linguas.
e introduciendo europano, a mix af al europano linguas.
and introducing europano, a mix af al europano linguas.

la 3 (tri) primeros videos is sobre la portugaliano lingua, arjentina e la lingua aleman.
os 3 primeros videos sao sobri a língua portugalian, arjentina i a língua aleman.
the 3 first veedeos ar about the portugaliano language, arjentina and the german language.

zum inhaltsverzeichnis: http://www.zedorock.net/youtube.html.
to the index: http://www.zedorock.net/youtube.html.

to la firste video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5_apIpXIY8&t=23s.
to the first veedeo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5_apIpXIY8&t=23s.

la videos ha bocu subtitlos et uptitlos!
lee vidéo ont bocou de soutitre ee surtitre!
the veedeos hav menny subtitles and overtitles!

la laste line ha sido sempre in house stile - no ha sido so disruptivo, no?
la última linea a sido siempre en house stile - no a sido tan disruptivo, no?
the bottom line was always in house stile - it wasnt that disruptiv, was it?

i wishe vu multi haha e multi yuhu!

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Re: The Spelling Reform Thread

Postby Zé do Rock » 2018-01-27, 15:32

cHr0mChIk wrote:"Vyvodzi się z języka praindoeuropejskiego za pośrednictvem prasłoviaňskiego. V movie rozvijał się od X vieku, a jego piervše zabytki pochodzą z vieku XIII. Pôźne średniovieče to okres rozkvitu češčyzny i jej silnego oddziałyvania na inne języki (v tym polski), jednakže po 1620 roku nastąpił proces jej upadku i dominacji na ziemiach českich języka niemieckiego."

- It just looks more clean... For example, compare "czeszczyzny" and "češčyzny". :D


he he, polonês é tao complicado que parece complicado até mesmo cuando simplificado!
he he, polish is so complicated, it looks complicated even when it is simplified!

als ich von polen nach tschechia kam, dacht ich, "aahhh, jetz komm ich in ein land mit sauberer schrift!"
when i came from poland to czechia, i thaught, "aahhh, now i come to a country with a clean writing!"

it must look quite weird for a serbian, who has such a clear and transparent spoken and written language.

a propos, si tu navais aucune connaisance du polonais, combien tu aurais compris comme serbe du paragraph en haut?
by the way, if you didnt hav any knowledge of polish, how much would you understand as a serb of the paragraph above?

Koko

Re: The Spelling Reform Thread

Postby Koko » 2018-02-05, 6:11

I.... deeply regret reading any of that, and now see where David was coming from when he said he usually just ignores the above person's posts :lol:

I am strongly against reforming English unless it's done organically, for example many of the spellings suggested on the first page are making a big appearance in informal contexts and i can imagine they'll be considered standard spellings within a decade or so. (perhaps too optimistic a prediction) I'd even go as far as advocating for those kinds of spellings, cause they're already widely used (tonite, donut, thru, tho, etc). sidenote: i'm gonna be in for a shock once i start uni (whenever that'll be) and suddenly i'll have to use standardized spellings again.

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Re: The Spelling Reform Thread

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-02-05, 6:42

Koko wrote:I.... deeply regret reading any of that, and now see where David was coming from when he said he usually just ignores the above person's posts :lol:

Yeah, I think most of us probably ignore him most of the time by now. :P Ain't nobody got time for all that.

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Re: The Spelling Reform Thread

Postby kevin » 2018-02-05, 10:37

And if Vijay doesn't have time for it, that's saying something. :P

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Re: The Spelling Reform Thread

Postby linguoboy » 2018-02-05, 16:39

kevin wrote:And if Vijay doesn't have time for it, that's saying something. :P

Image
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

IpseDixit

Re: The Spelling Reform Thread

Postby IpseDixit » 2018-02-05, 19:00

linguoboy wrote:
kevin wrote:And if Vijay doesn't have time for it, that's saying something. :P

Image


Wow, I didn't know Massimo D'Alema had become an international meme.

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Re: The Spelling Reform Thread

Postby linguoboy » 2018-02-05, 19:24

IpseDixit wrote:Wow, I didn't know Massimo D'Alema had become an international meme.

Neither did I!
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons


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