Pseudo-Anglicisms, adapted Anglicisms

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Re: Pseudo-Anglicisms, adapted Anglicisms

Postby Dormouse559 » 2020-07-25, 3:20

(fr) boot nf - ankle boot, low-cut boot; a boot that hits between the ankle and the top of the calf
English meaning: "Boot" is name for the whole category, equivalent to French botte.

Partly as a note for myself: In the TV series where I heard the word, the speaker used the English plural /buts/.
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Re: Pseudo-Anglicisms, adapted Anglicisms

Postby Linguaphile » 2020-09-26, 18:11

(es) crac / crack [economic] crash, [stock market] crash

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Re: Pseudo-Anglicisms, adapted Anglicisms

Postby Car » 2020-09-27, 8:50

Linguaphile wrote:(es) crac / crack [economic] crash, [stock market] crash

It also means something like star, champion, pro. E.g. I remember when I bought one of the sports newspapers in Catalonia, they repeatedly called Ronaldinho (yes, it's been some time) "el crack".

Speaking of a(n) (economic) crash, French uses krach for that while it's definitely not used in Germany any more (we use crash instead). It seems several languages loaned it from German, actually.
Please correct my mistakes!

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Re: Pseudo-Anglicisms, adapted Anglicisms

Postby Linguaphile » 2020-09-27, 13:19

Car wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:(es) crac / crack [economic] crash, [stock market] crash

It also means something like star, champion, pro. E.g. I remember when I bought one of the sports newspapers in Catalonia, they repeatedly called Ronaldinho (yes, it's been some time) "el crack".

Now that I think about it, that one is a good "adapted Anglicism" as well; the meaning you mention comes from the English word crack (whereas the meaning I mentioned comes from the English word crash), but in the "very good, pro athlete" sense, in English uses it as an adjective while Spanish it as a noun.

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Re: Pseudo-Anglicisms, adapted Anglicisms

Postby Osias » 2020-09-29, 23:32

It's the same in Brazil, but the sports meaning got a localized spelling "craque".
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Re: Pseudo-Anglicisms, adapted Anglicisms

Postby vijayjohn » 2021-02-07, 7:19

Mandarin Chinese (zh) 古的猫宁/Mandarin Chinese (zh-tw) 古的貓寧 gǔde māoníng seems to be something employees at a shop say to all customers as they come in regardless of the time of day (or night!).

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Re: Pseudo-Anglicisms, adapted Anglicisms

Postby Dormouse559 » 2021-02-07, 18:50

(fr) steak nm - hamburger patty
English meaning: a slice of beef

The core meaning of French steak is the same as the English word, but I have also heard it used, presumably as a shortening of steak haché, for hamburger patties.
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Re: Pseudo-Anglicisms, adapted Anglicisms

Postby melski » 2021-03-04, 8:58

(fr) dead v (slang) - to be very successful at, to "kill it", to nail it
"t'as dead ça chakal!" : you killed it, my man!/You nailed it, man!

I think it comes from Aya Nakamura song "Djadja" in which she sings "en catchana baby tu dead ça"

(fr) baby nm (shortening of babyfoot) - table football. "On se fait un pt'it baby ?" (let's play a table football game ?)

(fr) big bag nm - a very large bag (one cubic meter) used in agriculture and construction to stock corn, sand or other materials. The official English name is "flexible intermediate bulk container" (although "big bag" is also used, so I don't know if it really counts as a pseudo-anglicism).
................Native: French (fr) French
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Re: Pseudo-Anglicisms, adapted Anglicisms

Postby vijayjohn » 2021-04-01, 6:23

Urdu (ur) سلائس / Hindi (hi) सिलाइस [sɪˈlajs] - Western-style (sliced) bread

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Re: Pseudo-Anglicisms, adapted Anglicisms

Postby OldBoring » 2021-04-01, 15:30

vijayjohn wrote:Urdu (ur) سلائس / Hindi (hi) सिलाइस [sɪˈlajs] - Western-style (sliced) bread

Isn't any kind of bread western? :P
Unless you count chapati or roti or naan as bread too.

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Re: Pseudo-Anglicisms, adapted Anglicisms

Postby linguoboy » 2021-04-01, 18:22

OldBoring wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:Urdu (ur) سلائس / Hindi (hi) सिलाइस [sɪˈlajs] - Western-style (sliced) bread

Isn't any kind of bread western? :P
Unless you count chapati or roti or naan as bread too.

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Re: Pseudo-Anglicisms, adapted Anglicisms

Postby Saim » 2021-04-02, 4:06

vijayjohn wrote:Urdu (ur) سلائس / Hindi (hi) सिलाइस [sɪˈlajs] - Western-style (sliced) bread


Also ڈبل روٹی / डबल रोटी [ɖəbəl ro:ʈi:], from "double", presumably from the fact that a sandwich is made up of two slices of bread ("double bread").


OldBoring wrote:Isn't any kind of bread western? :P
Unless you count chapati or roti or naan as bread too.


In Hindustani chapati, naan and sliced bread are all kinds of roti (i.e. bread).

In English I would call chapati and naan kinds of flatbread, which is a type of bread, although if you just say "bread" without further qualification you probably wouldn't think of flatbread (just as you wouldn't think of a penguin if someone said "bird").

All the Italian sources I can find define roti, naan and chapati as types of pane. I guess in Chinese Indian-style bread would be a kind of 饼 whereas Western-style bread would fall under 面包?

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Re: Pseudo-Anglicisms, adapted Anglicisms

Postby vijayjohn » 2021-04-03, 22:29

Saim wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:Urdu (ur) سلائس / Hindi (hi) सिलाइस [sɪˈlajs] - Western-style (sliced) bread


Also ڈبل روٹی / डबल रोटी [ɖəbəl ro:ʈi:], from "double", presumably from the fact that a sandwich is made up of two slices of bread ("double bread").

I forgot that partial Anglicisms are acceptable here! Thanks! :)

I thought roti by default without further specification meant chapati in Hindustani, but I'm pretty sure I've met native speakers who completely disagree here. I think their understanding of what a chapati is and what a paratha is is also exactly the opposite of mine. In my brain, a chapati is a flatbread made of only flour and water and roasted in a pan or something whereas a paratha is something fancier, possibly with ghee in the dough, or possibly stuffed with a filling of some sort.

റൊട്ടി [roˈʈi] in Malayalam by default means sweet Western-style bread cut into (thick?) slices (well, at least my dad cuts it into thick slices, but I don't remember whether it was like this IME in South India itself or not :P) and eaten with soup.

These are words by a Malayalee humorist known as VKN that he claims in his stories are French but I think are mostly just English words (plus maybe his false recollection of the French definite article les - maybe he even confused it with Spanish los):

ലോ തീംസ് [loː t̪iːms] - The Times (i.e. the British newspaper)
മോൺസ്റ്റർ [ˈmɔːɳstər] - child :P

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Re: Pseudo-Anglicisms, adapted Anglicisms

Postby Saim » 2021-04-03, 22:46

vijayjohn wrote:
ലോ തീംസ് [loː t̪iːms] - The Times (i.e. the British newspaper)
മോൺസ്റ്റർ [ˈmɔːɳstər] - child :P


Any reason they’re incorporated with dental/alveolar stops rather than retroflex ones?

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Re: Pseudo-Anglicisms, adapted Anglicisms

Postby vijayjohn » 2021-04-03, 22:51

Saim wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:
ലോ തീംസ് [loː t̪iːms] - The Times (i.e. the British newspaper)
മോൺസ്റ്റർ [ˈmɔːɳstər] - child :P


Any reason they’re incorporated with dental/alveolar stops rather than retroflex ones?

In the first one, ig because he was trying to make it sound like French (or whatever he thought French sounded like). In the second one...because Malayalam has word-medial [t] in native words anyway.

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Re: Pseudo-Anglicisms, adapted Anglicisms

Postby Saim » 2021-04-04, 0:05

vijayjohn wrote:In the first one, ig because he was trying to make it sound like French (or whatever he thought French sounded like).


Interesting. I always used to expect that but in my experience in Urdu texts they adopt European words with retroflex stops even when they're dental in the original language, as I guess they're filtering it through English. I find it quite jarring personally.

In the second one...because Malayalam has word-medial [t] in native words anyway.


So English words are incorporated with the alveolar stop but only when it's word-medial? Doesn't alveolar t have phonemic status in Malayalam, contrasted from both the dental and retroflex t?

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Re: Pseudo-Anglicisms, adapted Anglicisms

Postby vijayjohn » 2021-04-04, 2:25

Saim wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:In the first one, ig because he was trying to make it sound like French (or whatever he thought French sounded like).


Interesting. I always used to expect that but in my experience in Urdu texts they adopt European words with retroflex stops even when they're dental in the original language, as I guess they're filtering it through English. I find it quite jarring personally.

Me, too! I told my parents straight up (repeatedly!) that pronouncing tortilla as [ˈʈoːʈila] is wrong (I'm pretty sure "wrong" is the word I used even though I get why they do it, because it's filtered through Indian English, which means it's ultimately filtered through English and Hindi in their case) when in Spanish itself, it's pronounced pretty much exactly like തൊർത്തീയ: [t̪orˈt̪iːja]. I even wrote തൊർത്തീയ down for them so they wouldn't forget. :lol:

In another story, VKN has a Russian character who inconsistently uses dental, alveolar, and retroflex stops when speaking English. :ohwell: But he does also say "спасибо, товарищ" at one point, and the first syllable of the second word is correctly transcribed as ത [t̪a].
So English words are incorporated with the alveolar stop but only when it's word-medial?

Typically, yes. However, I do have a short story translated from Russian into Malayalam (probably through English) where two of the characters sing songs in gibberish to each other; one sings [ˈtaːɭɖi ˈtaːɭɖi ˈtaːɭɖi ˈtaːɭɖi ˈtaːɭɖi ˈtaːɭɖi ˈtaːɭɖi ˈtaːɭɖi], and the other sings [ˈtilli ˈtaːli ˈtilli ˈtaːli ˈtilli ˈtaːli ˈtilli ˈtaːli]. So maybe there are exceptions to that rule after all. :hmm:

I also get the impression that the more people want to show off their English (and the less Malayalam they know), the more often they use [t] when speaking English.
Doesn't alveolar t have phonemic status in Malayalam, contrasted from both the dental and retroflex t?

Yes, but only the dental T (and the retroflex T if you include loanwords from English) commonly occurs word-initially, and none of them occurs word-finally.

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Re: Pseudo-Anglicisms, adapted Anglicisms

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-06-10, 22:51

(ru) дог Great Dane
(et) dogi Great Dane
(de) Dogge mastiff
(fr) dogue mastiff
(es) dogo bulldog

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Re: Pseudo-Anglicisms, adapted Anglicisms

Postby Rí.na.dTeangacha » 2021-07-03, 0:17

(pt-br) um outdoor - a billboard
(pt-br)(ja) - Formerly Ciarán12

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Re: Pseudo-Anglicisms, adapted Anglicisms

Postby vijayjohn » 2021-07-03, 21:31

In Malayalam, a danger biscuit is a bar of gold illegally smuggled in (usually from the Persian Gulf, IIRC).
EDIT: And brown sugar means some kind of illegal drug, I think maybe hash(ish).


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