Words that just won't stick

This is our main forum. Here, anything related to languages and linguistics can be discussed.

Moderator: Forum Administrators

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24010
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Words that just won't stick

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-11-04, 18:38

Osias wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:
JackFrost wrote:Counting is pretty deep in the mind

Counting doesn't even exist in some languages.
Wasn't just the case for a single one, Pirahã?

Nope. It's very common both in the Amazon rainforest and in (some parts of) Australia to just not have a number system at all. Numbers are pretty useless in some cultures.

User avatar
Osias
Posts: 8380
Joined: 2007-09-09, 17:38
Real Name: Osias Junior
Gender: male
Location: Vitória
Country: BR Brazil (Brasil)
Contact:

Re: Words that just won't stick

Postby Osias » 2017-11-04, 22:27

I remember reading about the Nambiquara having "one, two and many".
2017 est l'année du (fr) et de l'(de) pour moi. Parle avec moi en eux, s'il te plait.

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24010
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Words that just won't stick

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-11-04, 23:10

Yep, that happens. :yep:

User avatar
JackFrost
Forum Administrator
Posts: 16240
Joined: 2004-11-08, 21:00
Real Name: Jack Frost
Gender: male
Location: Montréal, Québec
Country: CA Canada (Canada)

Re: Words that just won't stick

Postby JackFrost » 2017-11-05, 15:58

vijayjohn wrote:Counting doesn't even exist in some languages.

Ok, and?

I think they're clearly not. Which came first into French, le hamburger or quatre-vingts?

What kind of question is that...?

French was descended from Latin with some Germanic influences and apparently very few Celtic ones.

You just repeated what I just basically said. :wink:
Neferuj paħujkij!

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24010
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Words that just won't stick

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-11-05, 17:25

JackFrost wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:Counting doesn't even exist in some languages.

Ok, and?

How can it be "pretty deep in the mind" if it doesn't even exist?
I think they're clearly not. Which came first into French, le hamburger or quatre-vingts?

What kind of question is that...?

You said you think numbers are "usually the last bits of language to change." That sounds to me like you're saying that's the last thing to change before a language dies. I disagree.

User avatar
OldBoring
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 5897
Joined: 2012-12-08, 7:19
Real Name: Francesco
Gender: male
Location: Milan
Country: IT Italy (Italia)
Contact:

Re: Words that just won't stick

Postby OldBoring » 2017-11-12, 10:49

Numbers are not necessarily the last bits of language to change. The Malaysian Chinese and the Chinese in Italy say 十千 instead of 一万.

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24010
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Words that just won't stick

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-12-12, 0:11

കിഴുത്ത [kiˈɻut̪a] 'hole'

I always forget whether the last consonant is supposed to be "silent" or not (if it was, then it would be pronounced [kiˈɻut̪ɯ] in isolation and before a consonant and [kiˈɻut̪] before a vowel).

User avatar
Hoogstwaarschijnlijk
Posts: 6844
Joined: 2005-11-30, 10:21
Gender: female
Location: Utrecht
Country: NL The Netherlands (Nederland)

Re: Words that just won't stick

Postby Hoogstwaarschijnlijk » 2017-12-13, 20:13

I always think bjørn means child in Danish, but it's bear :para:
Native: Dutch
Learns: Indonesian and baby signs
Knows also (a bit): English, German, Turkish, French, Danish

Corrections appreciated.

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24010
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Words that just won't stick

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-12-13, 20:36

[e] is unrounded like [j] but a mid vowel like [œ]! :whistle:

User avatar
Michael
Posts: 7122
Joined: 2009-07-21, 3:07
Real Name: Mike
Gender: male
Location: Oak Park, IL
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Words that just won't stick

Postby Michael » 2017-12-31, 21:29

It's been well over a year since I first learned this pair of words, but to this day I still can't disambiguate them on the spot. But, I mean, can you really blame me? :mrgreen:

(sq) trangu/ll, -lli, -j(t) cucumber, zucchini
(sq) kungu/ll, -lli, -j(t) pumpkin, squash, gourd

I suppose that the reason I haven't yet been successful at remembering this next item of vocabulary is because every time Anki prompts me for it, I panic and expect the answer to be an Italianate or Turkish-derived term. Or perhaps suxhuk (‘sausage’) comes to mind instead, for some reason. Who knows,

(sq) qoft/e, -ja, -e(t) meatball
American English (en-us) Pizzonese (nap) N Italian (it) Mexican Spanish (es-mx) Brazilian Portuguese (pt-br) Albanian (sq) B1 Greek (el) Persian (fa) A2 Romanian (ro) Old English (en_old) Turkish (tr) Azerbaijani (az) A1
„Çdo njeri është peng i veprave të veta.‟
Every human being is hostage to their own deeds.

User avatar
voron
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 4832
Joined: 2007-07-15, 3:29
Real Name: Igor
Gender: male
Country: TR Turkey (Türkiye)

Re: Words that just won't stick

Postby voron » 2017-12-31, 21:57

Michael wrote: expect the answer to be an Italianate or Turkish-derived term.

Well, köfte does exist in Turkish, and perhaps entered Albanian via Ottoman.

User avatar
Michael
Posts: 7122
Joined: 2009-07-21, 3:07
Real Name: Mike
Gender: male
Location: Oak Park, IL
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Words that just won't stick

Postby Michael » 2018-01-01, 1:44

voron wrote:
Michael wrote: expect the answer to be an Italianate or Turkish-derived term.

Well, köfte does exist in Turkish, and perhaps entered Albanian via Ottoman.

Keen eye there; sağol, kardeş! :wink: Normally, I would have been able to make the connection too, as colloquial Albanian is replete with Turkish loans (you'd love it, btw *wink*) and I enjoy learning about them, but this is the first time I learn of that specific word köfte. I think I figured out what was confusing me in regards to qoft/e, -ja: Its resemblance to the word qoftë, a conjunction stemming from the isolated third-person singular optative conjugation of the copula verb (për të qenë) that means "whether … [or not]", also used in the conjunctive phrase në qoftë se meaning "in the case that, lest". (Sorry, I didn't mean to provide you with all that irrelevant information.) Thus in a nutshell, qoft/e, -ja is indeed ultimately derived from Turkish, and the resemblance to qoftë, an indigenous word, was purely coincidental!
Last edited by Michael on 2018-01-01, 3:57, edited 1 time in total.
American English (en-us) Pizzonese (nap) N Italian (it) Mexican Spanish (es-mx) Brazilian Portuguese (pt-br) Albanian (sq) B1 Greek (el) Persian (fa) A2 Romanian (ro) Old English (en_old) Turkish (tr) Azerbaijani (az) A1
„Çdo njeri është peng i veprave të veta.‟
Every human being is hostage to their own deeds.

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24010
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Words that just won't stick

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-01-01, 3:07

Köfte in turn comes from Persian کوفته from the verb کوفتن (which can apparently mean 'to grind' but also means various other things like 'to break', 'to tread upon', 'to throw down', and 'to bleach').

This is also where North Indians and Pakistanis got the word kofta.

User avatar
księżycowy
Posts: 13110
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Words that just won't stick

Postby księżycowy » 2018-01-09, 13:10

I wouldn't nessicarily say these words don't stick, but they definatively make me pause everytime....

עמר
עבר
עבד

User avatar
Michael
Posts: 7122
Joined: 2009-07-21, 3:07
Real Name: Mike
Gender: male
Location: Oak Park, IL
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Words that just won't stick

Postby Michael » 2018-01-28, 18:43

It still won't stick! Good thing I barely talk about either pumpkins or cucumbers in any language.

Image
American English (en-us) Pizzonese (nap) N Italian (it) Mexican Spanish (es-mx) Brazilian Portuguese (pt-br) Albanian (sq) B1 Greek (el) Persian (fa) A2 Romanian (ro) Old English (en_old) Turkish (tr) Azerbaijani (az) A1
„Çdo njeri është peng i veprave të veta.‟
Every human being is hostage to their own deeds.

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24010
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Words that just won't stick

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-01-28, 18:54

Cucumber plants apparently run the risk of strangling other plants.

User avatar
Ciarán12
Posts: 3426
Joined: 2011-12-31, 15:23
Real Name: Ciarán
Gender: male
Location: Baile Átha Cliath (Dublin)
Country: IE Ireland (Éire / Ireland)

Re: Words that just won't stick

Postby Ciarán12 » 2018-03-05, 1:00

(pt-br) cócegas (tickles) and (pt-br) coceira (itch) - I always confuse these two. I mean come on, they sound similar and even have sort of similar meanings!

User avatar
OldBoring
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 5897
Joined: 2012-12-08, 7:19
Real Name: Francesco
Gender: male
Location: Milan
Country: IT Italy (Italia)
Contact:

Re: Words that just won't stick

Postby OldBoring » 2018-03-05, 6:46

In Mandarin Chinese there is only word 痒 for both itch and tickles.

User avatar
Ciarán12
Posts: 3426
Joined: 2011-12-31, 15:23
Real Name: Ciarán
Gender: male
Location: Baile Átha Cliath (Dublin)
Country: IE Ireland (Éire / Ireland)

Re: Words that just won't stick

Postby Ciarán12 » 2018-03-11, 14:37

(pt-br) pichação - graffiti, (illegal) writing on a wall

I have asked my gf what the word for this is in Portuguese about 50 times and I never remember it :/

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24010
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Words that just won't stick

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-03-11, 15:54

Apparently, that word ultimately comes from English pitch (i.e. material made from tar), + -ação, of course. So I guess pichação is kind of like tarring the wall. Alongside o piche, there's also a native Portuguese synonym o pez.
Last edited by vijayjohn on 2018-03-11, 15:56, edited 1 time in total.


Return to “General Language Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest