Cognates

This is our main forum. Here, anything related to languages and linguistics can be discussed.

Moderator: Forum Administrators

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5436
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Novi Sad
Country: RS Serbia (Србија)

Re: Cognates

Postby Saim » 2019-10-14, 12:00

I never would have guessed Romanian a năzui (năzuiesc) [to aspire to, strive for] comes from Hungarian néz [to look, watch] had I not looked it up.

vijayjohn wrote:How did that get into Zulu from Swahili? :shock:


Trade? If I've interpreted Glosbe correctly Makhu seems to have okathi for "time", and xitsonga.org gives xikhati for "clock" in Tsonga, so maybe the word first passed through some of the languages in between Zulu and Swahili.

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5436
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Novi Sad
Country: RS Serbia (Србија)

Re: Cognates

Postby Saim » 2019-10-15, 16:45

(sh) bèdro - thigh (pl. udo)
(pl) biodro - hip (sr. kȕk (kùkovi))

(sh) ȗd (ȗda, údovi) - limb (pl. kończyna); spȏlni ȗd, ùdo - member [penis] (pl. członek, prącie)
(pl) udo - thigh (sr. bèdro)

(sh) ȕtroba - entrails (pl. wnętrzności); žènina ȕtroba - womb (pl. macica)
(pl) wątroba - liver (sr. bùbreg)

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5436
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Novi Sad
Country: RS Serbia (Србија)

Re: Cognates

Postby Saim » 2019-10-18, 7:22

(eu) perpaus - sentence, clause
(oc) [Gascon] perpaus - aim, remark (in other varieties propaus or prepaus, equivalent to French propos)

User avatar
Ciarán12
Posts: 3513
Joined: 2011-12-31, 15:23
Real Name: Ciarán
Gender: male
Location: Baile Átha Cliath (Dublin)
Country: IE Ireland (Éire / Ireland)

Re: Cognates

Postby Ciarán12 » 2019-10-20, 13:55

(de) Zaun - fence
(en-GB) town
(ga) dún - fort, fortress

User avatar
Car
Forum Administrator
Posts: 10522
Joined: 2002-06-21, 19:24
Real Name: Silvia
Gender: female
Country: DE Germany (Deutschland)
Contact:

Re: Cognates

Postby Car » 2019-10-21, 9:53

(de) Zaun - fence
(en-GB) town
(ga) dún - fort, fortress
(nl) tuin - garden
Please correct my mistakes!

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 23414
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Cognates

Postby linguoboy » 2019-10-21, 21:24

(de) Zaun - fence
(en-GB) town
(ga) dún - fort, fortress
(nl) tuin - garden
(cy) dinas - city
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

User avatar
Ciarán12
Posts: 3513
Joined: 2011-12-31, 15:23
Real Name: Ciarán
Gender: male
Location: Baile Átha Cliath (Dublin)
Country: IE Ireland (Éire / Ireland)

Re: Cognates

Postby Ciarán12 » 2019-10-24, 22:40

(de) die Zwiebel - the onion
(pt-br) a cebola- the onion

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24510
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Cognates

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-10-25, 12:40

(de) die Zwiebel - the onion
(pt-br) a cebola- the onion
(ml) സവോള [səˈʋoːɭa] / സവാള [səˈʋaːɭa] - white(?) onion

(As opposed to the more commonly used shallot
Portuguese loanword)

Linguaphile
Posts: 2326
Joined: 2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Cognates

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-10-25, 18:31

vijayjohn wrote:(de) die Zwiebel - the onion
(pt-br) a cebola- the onion
(ml) സവോള [səˈʋoːɭa] / സവാള [səˈʋaːɭa] - white(?) onion

(As opposed to the more commonly used shallot
Portuguese loanword)

That one really gets around:
(es) cebolla onion
(pl) cebula onion
(sl) čebula onion
(fr) ciboule scallion, spring onion
(ga) ciobúl scallion, spring onion
(cs) cibule onion
(et) sibul onion
(vro) sipuľ onion
(vot) sipuli onion
(lv) sīpols onion
(wo) soble onion
(ee) sabala onion
(gaa) sabolai onion
(tl) sibuyas onion
(qu) siwulla onion

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24510
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Cognates

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-11-07, 5:41

Shoulda said this earlier, but:
Saim wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:How did that get into Zulu from Swahili? :shock:


Trade? If I've interpreted Glosbe correctly Makhu seems to have okathi for "time", and xitsonga.org gives xikhati for "clock" in Tsonga, so maybe the word first passed through some of the languages in between Zulu and Swahili.

That makes sense, thanks! :D

Probable cognates according to Wiktionary:

Persian (fa) بوری‎ būrī - hunting horn, point of a nail
Thai (th) บุหรี่ bù-rìi - tobacco, cigarette

It explains: "Persia was the first nation which imported tobacco to Siam and the old cigarette was wrapped with leaves in pointed shape."

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 23414
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Cognates

Postby linguoboy » 2019-11-07, 15:39

Somehow it never occurred to me that inveigh and invective both derive from the same Latin verb (invehō "I bring in").
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24510
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Cognates

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-11-08, 22:59

These are cognate sets in the North Halmahera languages, which form part of the West Papuan language family. The West Papuan languages are all spoken in Indonesia, in the Maluku Islands (where all the North Halmahera languages are spoken) and West Papua. Ternate and Tidore are also the names of the islands where the languages of the same names are spoken and used to be powerful sultanates.

'hair'
Galelo: hutu
Loloda: utu
Tobelo: utu
Modole: utu
Tobaru: utu
Sahu: utu
Ternate: hutu
Tidore: hutu

'eye'
Galelo: lako
Loloda: lako
Tobelo: lako
Pagu: lako
Modole: la'o
Tobaru: ako
Sahu: la'o
Ternate: lako
Tidore: lao

'ear'
Galelo: ngau
Loloda: ngauku
Tobelo: ngauku
Pagu: ngauku
Modole: ngau
Tobaru: ngaoku
Sahu: ngau'u
Ternate: ngau
Tidore: ngau

'nose'
Galelo: ngunu
Loloda: ngunungu
Tobelo: ngunungu
Pagu: ngunung
Modole: ngunung
Tobaru: ngununu
Sahu: ngunungu
Ternate: ngunu
Tidore: ngun

'Hair' in Pagu is beleti, so I'm not sure it's a cognate with the other forms.

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 23414
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Cognates

Postby linguoboy » 2019-11-15, 17:56

Another surprising cognate: Guillaume Jacques suggests that the common Siouan term for "grizzly bear" is an early borrowing from Algonquian. So this would make Osage mįchó (bzw. Lakhota mątȟó, etc.) cognate with Ojibwe makwa (bzw. Cree maskwa, etc.).
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

Linguaphile
Posts: 2326
Joined: 2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Cognates

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-11-17, 21:59

(et) seelik skirt
(et) seljas used in the phrase "to have on, to be wearing" (of clothing that covers the back)
(et) selg back (body part)
(liv) sǟlga back (body part); open sea
(fi) selkä back (body part); spine (of book); ridge; open water; watershed
(vot) seltšä back (body part); expansive area of open sea or land
(lud) šelg back (body part); expansive area of open sea or land
(smi-sme) čielgi spine (body part), backbone
(smi-sms) čiõʹlj spine (body part), backbone
(mhr) шылыж sacral region (body part)

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24510
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Cognates

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-11-18, 22:06

linguoboy wrote:Another surprising cognate: Guillaume Jacques suggests that the common Siouan term for "grizzly bear" is an early borrowing from Algonquian.

Is it uncommon for Siouan languages to share terms with Algonquian languages?

The words for 'bamboo' in some Australian language varieties, apparently adopted from Kala Lagaw Ya (marked with a flag) into the other varieties (for which no flag exists AFAIK). The varieties with the form marrapi are all varieties of a language called Urradhi, which is closely related to Gudang. The affiliation of Kala Lagaw Ya seems to be disputed, though it's also generally considered a Pama-Nyungan language, and it's been heavily influenced by Papuan and Austronesian languages:

Kala Lagaw Ya (mwp) mœraapi
Gudang: marraapi
Yadhaykenu: marrapi
Atampaya: marrapi
Angkamuthi: marrapi

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 23414
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Cognates

Postby linguoboy » 2019-11-18, 22:42

vijayjohn wrote:
linguoboy wrote:Another surprising cognate: Guillaume Jacques suggests that the common Siouan term for "grizzly bear" is an early borrowing from Algonquian.

Is it uncommon for Siouan languages to share terms with Algonquian languages?

Very. It's uncommon for them to borrow words in general. I think I've only seen one or two other common Siouan words with Algonquian etymologies.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24510
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Cognates

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-11-19, 22:56

linguoboy wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:
linguoboy wrote:Another surprising cognate: Guillaume Jacques suggests that the common Siouan term for "grizzly bear" is an early borrowing from Algonquian.

Is it uncommon for Siouan languages to share terms with Algonquian languages?

Very. It's uncommon for them to borrow words in general. I think I've only seen one or two other common Siouan words with Algonquian etymologies.

Interesting. Any idea why they're so resistant to borrowing?

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 23414
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Cognates

Postby linguoboy » 2019-11-19, 22:58

vijayjohn wrote:Interesting. Any idea why they're so resistant to borrowing?

All I can really say is that it's something which resides in the culture of the speakers (since if Chinese can take on phonetic loans from English and vice-versa then anyone can borrow from anyone) and that this appears to be a widespread phenomenon among NAIL.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24510
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Cognates

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-11-19, 23:16

linguoboy wrote:this appears to be a widespread phenomenon among NAIL.

It does? :hmm: What other NAILs are resistant to borrowing then?

Linguaphile
Posts: 2326
Joined: 2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Cognates

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-11-20, 2:24

Siouan - Algonquian

mą́de (chy) ma'ta = bow (Proto-Algonquian *meʔtekwa)
(lkt) itázipa attawp = bow (Proto-Algonquian *aʔta·pya)
(lkt) otȟúŋwahe, othúŋwe (cr) ᐅᑌᓇᐤ otenaw = city (source)
(lkt) wagmú = squash ohkaːn-ɛmɛhkwan = hubbard squash (Proto-Algonquian *eːmehkwani) (source)


Return to “General Language Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest