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Re: Cognates

Posted: 2018-08-16, 13:48
by Homine.Sardu
(it) mandria (herd of animals)
(sc) mandra (animal pen)

from Latin and Greek "mandra" (herd or animal pen)

P.S.

From the noun "mandra" the Latin-speaking Sardinians coined the verb "In Mandrare", in current Sardinian "Immandrare or Ismandrare" (to close in). From the same root there is also the adjective "Mandrone" (lazy, lazybones). Literally the adjective "Mandrone" could be translated as "someone who spends his time locked up" (doing nothing); with centuries this adjective has become a synonymous of "lazy, lazybones".

Re: Cognates

Posted: 2018-08-21, 20:49
by linguoboy
Two words I'm surprised to find are not cognates: quail (n.) and quail (v.).

I'd always assumed the verb was derived from the noun (i.e. "acting in a way similar to a small skittish game bird") but they're from entirely distinct sources. The noun is an onomatopoeia coloured by the PIE root for "quail" and thus related to German Wachtel, Ancient Greek ὄρτυξ, etc. The verb, on the other hand, is from PGmc *kwelaną "suffer" and, thus, is cognate to German quälen "torture", Swedish kvälja "arraign", etc.

Re: Cognates

Posted: 2018-09-17, 16:20
by linguoboy
Here's an unexpected pair: Catalan ble "wick" and Welsh blaidd "wolf".

Supposedly the connexion is the white mullein (Verbascum lychnitis, a plant whose leaves could be made into candle wicks and which also goes under the name of "wolf's tail". (Cf. Spanish gordolobo "mullein", which is considered a corruption of Andalusian codalupo < VL cauda(m) lupi.)

Re: Cognates

Posted: 2018-09-18, 0:06
by vijayjohn
Telugu has borrowed so many words from Hindi/Urdu it's even ended up borrowing [z] from it (and the whole [z] ~ [d͡ʒ] alternation).

Persian (fa) روز roz - day
Urdu (ur) روز roz/roj - day
Telugu (te) రోజు rōzu/rōju - day

Re: Cognates

Posted: 2018-11-20, 1:29
by IpseDixit
The word for "today" in many languages of northern Italy comes from Latin hanc horam (this hour). (e.g: Venetian: ancò, Ladin: anché, Ligurian: ancheu, Piedmontese: ancheuj).

From hanc horam Italian got ancora (still/yet) and according to some sources, from ancora we got anche (also), although I kind of struggle to see the logic that got us from "still" to "also".

Re: Cognates

Posted: 2018-11-20, 1:36
by vijayjohn
Can't ancora and anche both mean 'even'?

Re: Cognates

Posted: 2018-11-20, 1:42
by IpseDixit
vijayjohn wrote:Can't ancora and anche both mean 'even'?


Nope.

"Even" would be persino/perfino or addirittura.

Re: Cognates

Posted: 2018-11-20, 21:28
by IpseDixit
IpseDixit wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:Can't ancora and anche both mean 'even'?


Nope.

"Even" would be persino/perfino or addirittura.


It just dawned on me that yeah, there is (at least) one instance where "even" is translated as ancora, namely: even more---> ancora di più. I can't really think of other ones though.

Re: Cognates

Posted: 2018-11-21, 4:24
by vijayjohn
The Wiktionary entry for ancora (in English) says:

5. even
Ancor(a) meglio che sia così!
It's even better if it is so!
Synonyms: addirittura, anche, perfino, persino, pure, finanche

EDIT: Well, okay, I guess that's basically what you were saying.

But still...is it still hard to see how ancora and anche might be semantically related?

Re: Cognates

Posted: 2019-02-21, 18:30
by linguoboy
(cy) siec
(ga) seic

These are both obviously borrowings of English cheque. The amusing transposition of vowels stems from the quirks of their respective orthographies: <i> is the only vowel which indicates palatalisation of <s> in Welsh so it needs to be inserted here before <e>. Both <e> and <i> are palatal vowels in Irish ("slender" or "caol" in native terminology) but for some reason <e> alone isn't sufficient to indicate a following consonant is palatalised in Modern Irish so an <i> needs to be inserted after it.

What I find particularly confusing, however, are the gender assignments. Masculine is the unmarked gender in Welsh so I would expect siec to be masculine. It isn't, though, it's feminine and I have no idea why. Meanwhile, I would expect seic to be feminine since almost all words ending in a slender consonant in Irish are, but it's not, it's masculine!

Re: Cognates

Posted: 2019-03-20, 20:25
by linguoboy
Despite knowing both words for ages, I never made the connexion that Welsh yfory and Irish amárach were cognates. The link between yfory and bore "morning" is pretty obvious, but the corresponding Irish word bárach is archaic, so it never occurred to me that amárach represents a respelling of i mbárach (lit. "in morning").

Re: Cognates

Posted: 2019-04-21, 15:55
by vijayjohn
Persian (fa) اوان avân - time, season
Arabic (ar) أوان ʾawān - time

This is a word borrowed from Persian into Arabic, not the other way around.

Re: Cognates

Posted: 2019-05-28, 20:00
by Ciarán12
(pt-BR) manjericão
(en-GB) basil

Both from Latin basilicum.

Re: Cognates

Posted: 2019-06-19, 18:54
by Linguaphile
Looks like I posted these in the wrong thread a while back :oops: , so I'll add them here:

Võro (vro) illos beautiful
Lule Saami (smi-smj) illos vicious, malicious, lewd
Ludic (lud) ilo joy, happiness
Karelian (krl) ilo funny, odd
from Proto-Finnic *ilo

Finnish (fi) linna castle, fortress
linna city, town
from Proto-Finnic *litna

Estonian (et) kannatus suffering
FInnish (fi) kannatus support
from Proto-Finnic *kanta

Ludic (lud) kauńiž beautiful
Votic (vot) kauniz red
from Proto-Finnic *kaunis

Estonian (et) tanner battlefield
Finnish (fi) tanner flat open land
Livvi-Karelian (olo) tanner dry meadow
from Proto-Finnic *tanter

(vot) inehmiin person/human
(vep) inehmoi lazy/inept person
(lud) inahmoi woman
from Proto-Finnic *inhiminen

Inari Saami (smi-smn) kietkâm cradleboard
Estonian (et) kätkema to cover
Erzya (myv) кекшемс (kekšems) to hide
Votic (vot) tšätšö (k > tš) storeroom, cache
from Proto-Finno-Permic *käčke

Re: Cognates

Posted: 2019-06-20, 16:44
by Linguaphile
Komi-Zyrian (kv-kpv) вöр forest
Finnish (fi) vuori mountain
Southern Saami (smi-sma) vaerie treeless mountain
Hungarian (hu) orr nose
from Proto-Uralic *wëre

Finnish (fi) putki tube, pipe
Erzya (myv) почко roll, coil
South Saami (smi-sma) batsko flower stalk
Tundra Nenets (yrk) пудо spinal cord
from Proto-Uralic *pučki

Estonian (et) vaim spirit
Finnish (fi) vaimo wife
Northern Saami (sme) váibmu heart
Moksha (mdf) вайме breath
Komi-Zyrian (kv) вем brain
from Proto-Uralic *wajŋe

Finnish (fi) löyly sauna steam
Northern Saami (smi-sme) levlo vapor, smell
Mansi (mns) лили breathe
Hungarian (hu) lélek ghost, evil spirit
from Proto-Uralic *lewle

Finnish (fi) puhua to speak
Votic (vot) puhua to snort
puhhuua to breathe
Ludic (lud) puhuda to cast a spell
Estonian (et) puhuma to blow
Inari Saami (smi-smn) possoođ to inflate
Kildin Saami (smi-smk) поассэ to swell up
Komi-Zyrian (kv-kpv) puški̮ to puff
from Proto-Uralic *puše

Re: Cognates

Posted: 2019-06-26, 21:10
by Ciarán12
(pt-br) alimária - beast, animal
(pt-br) animal - animal

I think it's interesting that there's an example of metathesis but also the original form has stayed intact as a separate lexeme.

Re: Cognates

Posted: 2019-06-28, 11:37
by Osias
Ciarán12 wrote:(pt-br) alimária - beast, animal
Nunca vi essa palavra em mais de 40 anos, acho que nem o Michel Temer usa. :D

Mas enfim, tá aí...

Re: Cognates

Posted: 2019-06-28, 13:47
by Ciarán12
Osias wrote:Nunca vi essa palavra em mais de 40 anos, acho que nem o Michel Temer usa. :D

Mas enfim, tá aí...


Não lembro onde foi que eu encontrei, provavelmente num livro de Paulo Coelho. Ele tem a tendência de usar palavras incomuns, muitas vezes é terminologia religiosa ou da área de mágica. Além disso, alguns dos livros dele que eu li eram "traduções" em português de Portugal (que são mais fáceis achar aqui as vezes), talvez seja uma palavra mais comum lá em Portugal.

Re: Cognates

Posted: 2019-06-28, 13:54
by Osias
Ciarán12 wrote:Além disso, alguns dos livros dele que eu li eram "traduções" em português de Portugal


Quê.

I don't even.

Re: Cognates

Posted: 2019-06-29, 23:59
by OldBoring
It's a well-known fact that Paulo Coelho's books are "translated" into Portuguese Portuguese for the Portugal's market. I'm surprised Osias is surprised.