Cognates

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Re: Cognates

Postby OldBoring » 2016-04-04, 19:15

lolwut godere e gioire are cognates/related?

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Re: Cognates

Postby vijayjohn » 2016-04-04, 20:20

Koko wrote:Thou art rude, Vijay :hmpf:

I dig up every Romance cognate there is just for you (and every corresponding flag, and get flags from Wikipedia for languages that aren't even listed...) and then give you back your life. So mean, right? :lol:
But thank you ^^

Np. :)
OldBoring wrote:lolwut godere e gioire are cognates/related?

Yep. Apparently, godere is a native Italian word, and gioire is borrowed from Old French joir 'to take pleasure, to enjoy'.

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Re: Cognates

Postby харийн хүн » 2016-06-05, 11:38

Persian (fa) اشتر [oʃtor] - camel
Tajik (tg) уштур [uʃtur] - camel
Cognates or has the Persian word just been loaned:
аштар [ɑʃtɒr] - camel
Kurdish (ku) حوشتر [ħuʃtɪr] - camel
Baluchi (bal) اشتر /uʃtar/ - camel
Rajasthani (raj) ओठारू (oṭhārū) - camel
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Re: Cognates

Postby Sundor Bhasa » 2017-04-26, 21:04

Some Indo-European cognates I can think of:

[flag=]nl[/flag] kind and [flag=]de[/flag] Kind "child'
[flag=]en[/flag] kin
[flag=]la[/flag] genus, gignere
[flag=]grc[/flag] genos, gignesthai, genesis
[flag=]lv[/flag] dzimt "to be born"
all from a root genh- "to be born"

[flag=]nl[/flag] vragen and [flag=]de[/flag] Fragen "to ask"
[flag=]la[/flag] preces "prayers"
[flag=]lv[/flag] prasīt "to ask"
[flag=]bn[/flag] proshno "question"

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Re: Cognates

Postby Michael » 2017-04-27, 20:07

such [a] (+noun):
[flag=]fr[/flag] tel, telle
[flag=]es[/flag][flag=]pt[/flag] tal
[flag=]sq[/flag] i,e tillë

[flag=]nl[/flag] vragen and [flag=]de[/flag] Fragen "to ask"
[flag=]sq[/flag] pyes "to ask"
[flag=]la[/flag] preces "prayers"
[flag=]lv[/flag] prasīt "to ask"
[flag=]bn[/flag] proshno "question"
American English (en-us) Pizzonese (nap) N Italian (it) Mexican Spanish (es-mx) Brazilian Portuguese (pt-br) Albanian (sq) B1 Greek (el) Persian (fa) A2 Romanian (ro) Old English (en_old) Turkish (tr) Azerbaijani (az) A1
„Çdo njeri është peng i veprave të veta.‟
Every human being is hostage to their own deeds.

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Re: Cognates

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-08-18, 20:42

Michael wrote:[flag=]nl[/flag] vragen and [flag=]de[/flag] Fragen "to ask"
[flag=]sq[/flag] pyes "to ask"
[flag=]la[/flag] preces "prayers"
[flag=]lv[/flag] prasīt "to ask"
[flag=]bn[/flag] proshno "question"

Malayalam (ml) പ്രശ്നം [prɛɕˈnəm] - problem

This is kind of interesting:

English (en) compound
Indonesian (id) kampung - small hamlet
Malay (ms) kampung - village, community (and compound, according to Hobson-Jobson)
Khmer (km) កំពែង kâmpêng - fortress wall, rampart; fence, stone wall; fortress, fortification; precinct, enclosure (from Old Khmer)
Khmer (km) កំពង់ kâmpông - port, landing; river town; waterfront (also from Old Khmer)
Thai (th) กำแพง kam-phɛɛng - wall (surrounding a town, a temple)
Lao (lo) ກຳແພງ kam phǣng - city wall, rampart

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Re: Cognates

Postby linguoboy » 2017-08-18, 20:54

Here I thought compound and kampung were just coincidental!
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Re: Cognates

Postby Karavinka » 2017-09-09, 20:57

(mn) mor'
(mnc) morin
(ko) mal

"horse"

(mn) luus
(mnc) loosa
(ko) nosae

"mule"; l > n is a common phenomenon in ko

I think "horse" is pretty well established to be loanwords. I think "mule" must also be, but I couldn't verify it through external sources.
Last edited by Karavinka on 2017-09-09, 21:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cognates

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-09-09, 21:10

I have no idea about that Manchu word for 'mule' and can't tell where you got it from, but the Korean and Mongolian equivalents are both from Chinese.

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Re: Cognates

Postby Karavinka » 2017-09-09, 21:52

vijayjohn wrote:I have no idea about that Manchu word for 'mule' and can't tell where you got it from, but the Korean and Mongolian equivalents are both from Chinese.


I wouldn't be surprised if the Mongolian word originated from Chinese. Afaik, what is established is that the Korean word for 'horse' is imported via Mongolian, not directly from Chinese.

The word for 'mule' can be found in Manchu: A Textbook for Reading Documents as loosa on p.362, as losa on the glossary, and Norman lists lorin for a mule.
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Re: Cognates

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-09-09, 21:57

Karavinka wrote:Afaik, what is established is that the Korean word for 'horse' is imported via Mongolian, not directly from Chinese.

I didn't know that was established, but it seems likely at least that it comes from some Central Asian languages because a lot of those have similar words for 'horse'.
The word for 'mule' can be found in Manchu: A Textbook for Reading Documents as loosa on p.362, as losa on the glossary, and Norman lists lorin for a mule.

Thanks! :)

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Re: Cognates

Postby Michael » 2018-01-15, 20:52

These are actual cognates, unlike the last pair that I posted in this thread, which I've moved to the Multilingual True Friends.

(sq)
vjehërr father-/mother-in-law
shok friend, comrade (m.) AND shoqe (idem, f.)

The former is a direct descendant of Proto-Albanian *ueh(u)Vr-, while the latter is a borrowing from Old Latin socer . Both are from PIE **swéḱuros, for comparison. We can tell the latter is from older Latin and not from Vulgar Latin because it exhibits a lack of *K-palatalization, like another Albanian word, shkencë “science” (pron. /ʃkɛnt͡ʃə/ or [ˈʃke̞ːnt͡s]), from Old Latin scientia.
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„Çdo njeri është peng i veprave të veta.‟
Every human being is hostage to their own deeds.

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Re: Cognates

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-01-15, 21:13

We've been using a pretty loose definition of the term "cognates" for the purpose of this thread anyway, though, so you could just as well post them here, too, if you like.

Cham: sapluh 'ten'
Tsat: piu⁵⁵ 'ten'

Cham and Tsat are both Chamic languages, which in turn are Austronesian languages somewhat closely related to Malay. Cham is spoken in Southeast Asia, whereas Tsat is spoken on Hainan Island in China and has developed tones, probably due to contact with the various tonal languages also spoken on Hainan.

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Re: Cognates

Postby OldBoring » 2018-01-16, 20:53

Wenzhounese, Qingtianese: [naŋ] 'hot, warm' (no equivalent in literary Chinese, no hanzi)
Vietnamese: nóng 'hot, warm'

Chinese linguists say Tai-Kadai (?) substrate.

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Re: Cognates

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-01-16, 21:05

FWIW, 'hot' in Thai is /rɔːn˦˥/ (pronounced [lɔːn˦˥] by many (probably most) speakers), and IIRC, /n/ in some Tai-Kadai languages corresponds to /r/ or /l/ in others (word-final /r/ and /l/ are also pronounced [n] in Thai, and this even extends to Thai pronunciation of English, so <apple> is pronounced something like [ʔɛp̚pʰɯn]). Wiktionary traces /rɔːn˦˥/ back to Proto-Tai and nóng back to Proto-Vietic, but I'm not sure how reliable it is.

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Re: Cognates

Postby Michael » 2018-01-17, 23:56

(it) lupo wolf
(el) λύκος id.

(sq) qaj to cry
(sq-ALN) kaj / kjaj id.
(sq-ALS) klaj id.
(el) κλαίω id.
(sq) quaj to call, shout
(sq-ALN) quej id.
(sq-ALS) kluanj id.
(sq-AAE) kluanj id.
(en_old) hlūd
(en) loud

(sq) mësoj to learn
(sq-ALS) mbësonj id.
(sq-AAE) mbësonj id.
(ro) învăța id.
(la) invitiāre id. (Vulgar)
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„Çdo njeri është peng i veprave të veta.‟
Every human being is hostage to their own deeds.

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Re: Cognates

Postby OldBoring » 2018-01-19, 20:26

vijayjohn wrote:FWIW, 'hot' in Thai is /rɔːn˦˥/ (pronounced [lɔːn˦˥] by many (probably most) speakers), and IIRC, /n/ in some Tai-Kadai languages corresponds to /r/ or /l/ in others (word-final /r/ and /l/ are also pronounced [n] in Thai, and this even extends to Thai pronunciation of English, so <apple> is pronounced something like [ʔɛp̚pʰɯn]). Wiktionary traces /rɔːn˦˥/ back to Proto-Tai and nóng back to Proto-Vietic, but I'm not sure how reliable it is.

Are they cognate/related?

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Re: Cognates

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-01-19, 20:34

OldBoring wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:FWIW, 'hot' in Thai is /rɔːn˦˥/ (pronounced [lɔːn˦˥] by many (probably most) speakers), and IIRC, /n/ in some Tai-Kadai languages corresponds to /r/ or /l/ in others (word-final /r/ and /l/ are also pronounced [n] in Thai, and this even extends to Thai pronunciation of English, so <apple> is pronounced something like [ʔɛp̚pʰɯn]). Wiktionary traces /rɔːn˦˥/ back to Proto-Tai and nóng back to Proto-Vietic, but I'm not sure how reliable it is.

Are they cognate/related?

Idk, but I doubt it. The Proto-Tai form is *rwuːlᶜ, and the Proto-Vietic one is either *p-ɗuŋʔ or *p-ruŋʔ (at least according to Wiktionary...).

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Re: Cognates

Postby OldBoring » 2018-01-19, 20:37

All words in Proto-Anything look like shit.

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Re: Cognates

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-01-19, 20:51

Except Proto-Dravidian, because research on it is so bad that it's basically just Tamil (even though that doesn't make much historical sense). :P

A lot of words in Proto-Uralic, too, and some even in PIE like *wed-. Maybe also Proto-Semitic...okay, probably a lot of proto-languages, actually.


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