The languages of our dreams

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Gormur
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Re: The languages of our dreams

Postby Gormur » 2020-07-17, 13:05

Probably not even worth mentioning but regina meant queen in Late Latin. The -ion word reminds me of queen bee, which might make sense in a dream

I searched a bit and apparently Old English didn't have princess as a word, so maybe that explains why there's no word for transitioning from princess to queen even though there isn't one for prince to king either
Eigi gegnir þat at segja at bók nøkkur er hreinferðug eðr ønnur spelluð því at vandliga ok dáliga eru bœkr ritnar ok annat kunnum vér eigi um þœr at dœma

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Re: The languages of our dreams

Postby Linguaphile » 2020-07-17, 13:40

Vlürch wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:Or enthroned.

True, but that can also be used to refer to non-monarchs and figuratively pretty much anything. Of course any word that explicitly refers to enmonarchment could be, too, but at least it'd literally refer to... uh... enmonarchment. :lol: I swear the only word I can think of is *enmonarched, and it is immediately understandable so it would probably be better than something more obscure... but I'm still pretty sure there has to be a word with that explicit specific meaning, even if it'd only be found in some obscure 16th-century dictionary. :lol:
Linguaphile wrote:(In Ghanaian English they say enstooled.)

Interesting!

The thing is, enmonarched isn't a real word, but enthroned is. There's also coronated and crowned.

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Re: The languages of our dreams

Postby Vlürch » 2020-07-19, 15:31

Linguaphile wrote:The thing is, enmonarched isn't a real word, but enthroned is. There's also coronated and crowned.

Yeah, but the creation of neologisms is (increasingly?) one of the ways new words become "real". This one probably wouldn't become widely used in any case since, like you said, those (near-)synonyms exist, though... but it seems too good a word not to use if specificity is needed imho. There is one result on Google for enmonarched, which also uses monarching to mean something like "to do monarchial things", so it's not like I'd be the first person to use it if I used it. :P

I didn't mean to derail this thread, but...

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Re: The languages of our dreams

Postby Gormur » 2020-07-19, 15:49

It seems kind of useless though when you already have enthroned which can also turn into dethrone(d). It's also easy to pronounce

What does en- mean anyway? It almost seems like something's going on within a monarchy :para:

The enmonarched church where the wedding took place between the king and newly crowned queen was celebrated for its history.

There :lol: :)
Eigi gegnir þat at segja at bók nøkkur er hreinferðug eðr ønnur spelluð því at vandliga ok dáliga eru bœkr ritnar ok annat kunnum vér eigi um þœr at dœma

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Re: The languages of our dreams

Postby Vlürch » 2020-07-19, 16:06

Gormur wrote:It seems kind of useless

Well, maybe, but I meant specifically a word that's not used figuratively the same way as enthroned and would only be used to refer to literal monarchs. :hmm:

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Re: The languages of our dreams

Postby Gormur » 2020-07-19, 16:19

Vlürch wrote:
Gormur wrote:It seems kind of useless

Well, maybe, but I meant specifically a word that's not used figuratively the same way as enthroned and would only be used to refer to literal monarchs. :hmm:
No idea. I think it has to do with the structure of kings coming first and queens being their wife, so automatically they (women) were royalty but then even as things got more complex with rules they never came up with terms to express what women did in their chosen/inherited roles

I guess you know all that, but in hypothetical terms it'd be interesting to come up with terms. Like what it's called when a daughter becomes queen. We know it's usually because she's the eldest at the time but what would it be called, e.g to inherit a kingdom?
Eigi gegnir þat at segja at bók nøkkur er hreinferðug eðr ønnur spelluð því at vandliga ok dáliga eru bœkr ritnar ok annat kunnum vér eigi um þœr at dœma

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Re: The languages of our dreams

Postby Linguaphile » 2020-07-19, 16:40

Vlürch wrote:
Gormur wrote:It seems kind of useless

Well, maybe, but I meant specifically a word that's not used figuratively the same way as enthroned and would only be used to refer to literal monarchs. :hmm:

The literal meaning comes first, and then it acquires figurative meanings by extension. You could invent a word like enmonarched, but if the word caught on (if people started to actually use it), it would almost certainly be only a matter of time before people started using it figuratively as well. :mrgreen:

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Re: The languages of our dreams

Postby Gormur » 2020-07-19, 21:29

It's too hard to say, in my opinion :)

Actually my dream job is to be a person who invents new words for Norwegian and maybe Icelandic. English is a bit trickier because I don't really think that way about it, like I memorized a lot of it as a kid then stuck with it but newer words never stick because I don't already know them. They're counter-intuitive sounding, or maybe because I don't care :)
Eigi gegnir þat at segja at bók nøkkur er hreinferðug eðr ønnur spelluð því at vandliga ok dáliga eru bœkr ritnar ok annat kunnum vér eigi um þœr at dœma

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Re: The languages of our dreams

Postby Vlürch » 2020-07-23, 11:20

Linguaphile wrote:The literal meaning comes first, and then it acquires figurative meanings by extension. You could invent a word like enmonarched, but if the word caught on (if people started to actually use it), it would almost certainly be only a matter of time before people started using it figuratively as well. :mrgreen:

Mmh... weeeeell, true, I can't and don't even want to argue with that. Figurative uses even for words with seemingly strict literal meanings can of course be good, too, etc. It's just weird to me if there really isn't even an obscure (near-)synonym for enthrone(d) that has an etymological connection to monarch, regent, reign or whatever, but then again languages often have weird lexical gaps... just, you know, English being English, I'd always expect a dozen synonyms/near-synonyms to exist for every single concept. :lol:

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Re: The languages of our dreams

Postby Gormur » 2020-07-23, 17:48

If there never was one, one could invent a word. There might be a way to do it with Old English but it'd have to be reconstructed since there's no record of this concept

Maybe I misunderstood. Were you trying to come up with a term meaning when a woman becomes queen or was it to do with a kingdom ruled by a woman? :hmm:
Eigi gegnir þat at segja at bók nøkkur er hreinferðug eðr ønnur spelluð því at vandliga ok dáliga eru bœkr ritnar ok annat kunnum vér eigi um þœr at dœma

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Re: The languages of our dreams

Postby Vlürch » 2020-07-24, 1:22

Gormur wrote:Maybe I misunderstood. Were you trying to come up with a term meaning when a woman becomes queen or was it to do with a kingdom ruled by a woman? :hmm:

Nothing about women, just a word meaning "having become (or been made) a monarch" referring to anyone of any gender derived from some root with a literal etymological connotation of monarchy. I wasn't trying to come up with one but figure out if one already exists. My assumption was that since English has so many obscure words barely anyone even uses, there probably already is one... but I guess there isn't, after all? :para:

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Re: The languages of our dreams

Postby Gormur » 2020-07-24, 14:33

Yeah and even then you need to say having become a royal monarch when there's no context

Bequeathe the throne is an inheritance; the throne was bequethed to them

I can't find one that isn't an idiom :hmm:
Eigi gegnir þat at segja at bók nøkkur er hreinferðug eðr ønnur spelluð því at vandliga ok dáliga eru bœkr ritnar ok annat kunnum vér eigi um þœr at dœma

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Re: The languages of our dreams

Postby linguoboy » 2020-08-21, 13:34

One of the last things I looked at before going to bed last night was an analysis of the Vietnamese expression không có chi, which translates "you're welcome". It showed up in my dreams in a rather unexpected way: I was discussing Japanese names for body parts with a friend of a friend and trying to get him to confirm whether chi meant "nape of the neck" or not. (The weird thing was, when he replied to me, he wasn't speaking Japanese but Spanish.)
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: The languages of our dreams

Postby linguoboy » 2020-08-24, 16:27

Scottish Gaelic this time. I dreamt that was about to leave on a trip and I was looking through my mother's purchases for some food for the trip when one of the villagers noticed me and turned to another to say, "Give him some ùraidean for the journey. I immediately knew that this meant "new potatoes" (ùr is Scottish Gaelic for "new") and the other villager must have just recently harvested some. Sure enough, she opened her bag and scooped some cooked potato into a little jar for me.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: The languages of our dreams

Postby vijayjohn » 2020-09-11, 19:19

How was the potato cooked? Does ùraidean really mean 'new potato' in Scottish Gaelic?

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Re: The languages of our dreams

Postby Antea » 2020-09-12, 10:13

I my dream I was speaking in French with someone on my phone, but in fact I was in a Spanish restaurant on the road where everybody was speaking very loud. So I had to try very hard to ignore Spanish to continue to speak only in French. And then the person with which I was speaking on the phone asked me if I knew the meaning of a word in French, but in fact the word was in Scottish Gaelic, so I just was trying to guess the meaning trying to relate it to an ancient French word :hmm:


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