The last word of your mother tongue you have learnt ?

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Re: The last word of your mother tongue you have learnt ?

Postby Dormouse559 » 2018-07-10, 0:25

On a podcast I listen to, an actor said he was playing a character whose son is an atheist. But just a little later he said the son believes God is cruel. Well, an atheist can't believe God is cruel because they don't believe there's a god to begin with, so I set out to find some more apt terms for the "God is cruel" idea.

(en-us)
misotheism - hatred of a god
dystheism - belief that a god is evil

That reminded me of the Christian movie "God is Dead" where an ostensibly atheist character is pushing the idea in the title. It's apparently a Nietzsche quote and not meant literally. But if you do take it at face value, you have another non-atheistic belief. If God is dead, then God must exist or have existed. So I'm interested in learning if there's a neat word for the belief that a god is dead. I haven't managed to find one so far.
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Re: The last word of your mother tongue you have learnt ?

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-10, 0:30


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Re: The last word of your mother tongue you have learnt ?

Postby Dormouse559 » 2018-07-10, 0:47

Hmm, maybe? It seems too specific, though. The other two terms I listed can apply equally well to mono- and polytheistic beliefs, but theothanatology, at least in its word choice, is quite monotheistic. If someone subscribes to Norse mythology and as a result believes that Baldr is dead, are they a theothanatologist?
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Re: The last word of your mother tongue you have learnt ?

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-10, 1:43

That sounds more like a sectarian difference to me. I would think these kinds of differences must be fairly common within Hinduism, for example. (But I'm not an expert on Hinduism, so I can't say for sure).

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Re: The last word of your mother tongue you have learnt ?

Postby Dormouse559 » 2018-07-10, 1:51

vijayjohn wrote:That sounds more like a sectarian difference to me. I would think these kinds of differences must be fairly common within Hinduism, for example. (But I'm not an expert on Hinduism, so I can't say for sure).

In the theothanatologist view, the only god is dead (or perhaps all the gods, but as I pointed out, that possibility seems unaddressed). In the hypothetical Norse view, Baldr is dead, but many other gods are still alive, and there aren't necessarily any of the cultural implications about irreligiosity. That kind of difference is consequential.
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Re: The last word of your mother tongue you have learnt ?

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-10, 2:29

Yes, of course. I'm having trouble explaining what I mean...I'm not saying there are any cultural implications about irreligiosity or that the difference is inconsequential. :hmm:

Maybe it'll make more sense if I give you some examples of what I'm thinking of. (Or maybe it'll be super-confusing, but I have no idea how else to resolve the confusion, so... :ohwell:).

In India (and IIUC in South Asia more generally), there are a lot of different indigenous religious traditions, most of which IIUC the British lumped together under one vague label "Hinduism." Some of these traditions hold one god to be the most powerful, some hold another to be the most powerful, some hold a goddess to be the most powerful, some hold snakes to be the most powerful, a bunch of these traditions differ as to the extent to which snakes can be considered deities, and so on and so forth. In areas where two or more of these traditions coexisted, they were often associated with people at different levels of the caste system - sometimes different castes, sometimes even different subcastes within the same caste. For example, people who believed Vishnu was the most powerful god and worshiped him were at the very top of the caste ladder in some parts of India, whereas people who put Shiva in a similar position were slightly lower on the ladder (though of course still much more powerful than (almost) everyone else), and devotees of Vishnu frequently discriminated against devotees of Shiva. I'm not aware of devotees of Vishnu considering devotees of Shiva irreligious, just belonging to a different level in society and thus not deserving of certain privileges (not so much because of their beliefs, either, but rather because of who their parents/families are/were).

I also know that Buddha is often viewed in India as simply a reformer within Hinduism, but there's also a religious tradition in India that he is a reincarnation of Vishnu, so I'm guessing these may also be different religious traditions that coexist (or coexisted at some point) in India. If so, perhaps people who think Buddha is a reincarnation of Vishnu don't consider him dead, whereas people who think of him as a human reformer do consider him dead (and both sets of people believe all the other gods/deities/whatever are alive). Like the example I mentioned earlier, this doesn't necessarily imply that either group of people is somehow less religious or that the difference is inconsequential; the difference may be associated (for example) with differing positions within society, but with each group believing that people from different levels in society (or different castes/subcastes) have different religious beliefs, and they're more or less worthy of certain privileges depending on which level in society they're in.

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Re: The last word of your mother tongue you have learnt ?

Postby Michael » 2018-07-10, 6:00

IpseDixit wrote:
Michael wrote:(it) trascuratezza id


Uhm no. It means carelessness, negligence.

Lol, oops. I asked my grandma what it mean and she told me, Quando havi da fà nna cósa e nnu’ la fia. As you can see, I didn't think to double-check on WordReference.
American English (en-us) Pizzonese (nap) N Italian (it) Mexican Spanish (es-mx) Brazilian Portuguese (pt-br) Albanian (sq) B1 Greek (el) Persian (fa) A2 Romanian (ro) Old English (en_old) Turkish (tr) Azerbaijani (az) A1
„Çdo njeri është peng i veprave të veta.‟
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Re: The last word of your mother tongue you have learnt ?

Postby linguoboy » 2018-07-10, 15:02

archeparch
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Re: The last word of your mother tongue you have learnt ?

Postby md0 » 2018-07-16, 12:09

καπαλιτζής - καπαλιτζίνα (m-f, /kɐpɐli'tʃis/ - /kɐpɐli'tʃinɐ/) [>Cyp. Tr. gabal (working non-stop) + (-er) >Arabic (can't read the script though), cf Hadjipieris & Kabataş 2015]
1. worker working non-stop
2. wage-labourer paid per hour worked
3. contractor

Οι εκπαιδευτικοί δεν είναι «καπαλιτζήδες» για να μετρούμε τις ώρες δουλειάς τους. (source)
Educators are not καπαλιτζήδες for us to count their hours worked.


At first I thought it was derived from kapalı and it was difficult to make sense of it. Of course we commonly use καπάλιν as an interjection ("I'm done with this shit!") when we give up on or finish a frustrating task, where the connection to kapalı made sense. I guess there was some definition blending because we CyGr phonology makes the words sound the same.
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Re: The last word of your mother tongue you have learnt ?

Postby linguoboy » 2018-07-16, 13:26

md0 wrote:καπαλιτζής - καπαλιτζίνα (m-f, /kɐpɐli'tʃis/ - /kɐpɐli'tʃinɐ/) [>Cyp. Tr. gabal (working non-stop) + (-er) >Arabic (can't read the script though), cf Hadjipieris & Kabataş 2015]
1. worker working non-stop
2. wage-labourer paid per hour worked
3. contractor

I imagine the Arabic etymon is قبأله qabālah "bail, guaranty; contract, agreement".
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Re: The last word of your mother tongue you have learnt ?

Postby md0 » 2018-07-16, 20:24

Yes, it looks just like that, but without the vowel diacritics.
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Re: The last word of your mother tongue you have learnt ?

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-16, 20:27

Huh? There are no vowel diacritics in what linguoboy wrote, just a hamza (for the glottal stop) and the usual dotting of letters to distinguish /b/ from /t/ from /n/, etc. :hmm:

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Re: The last word of your mother tongue you have learnt ?

Postby md0 » 2018-07-16, 21:02

What I have in front of me has no top thing on أ. I thought that's a vowel diacritic.
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Re: The last word of your mother tongue you have learnt ?

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-16, 21:08

Ah, no, that's a hamza, which may have just been a typo. :)

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Re: The last word of your mother tongue you have learnt ?

Postby mōdgethanc » 2018-07-16, 21:13

Yes, the diacritic means a glottal stop and I'm pretty sure it was just a typo
linguoboy wrote:I imagine the Arabic etymon is قبأله qabālah "bail, guaranty; contract, agreement".
I can't find this word anywhere in Arabic except when I tried the spelling قبالة it yielded "midwifery".

Also gabelle came up.

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Re: The last word of your mother tongue you have learnt ?

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-16, 21:16

Yeah, I found something similar. :)

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Re: The last word of your mother tongue you have learnt ?

Postby linguoboy » 2018-07-16, 21:18

That (abridged) definition is straight from the Hans Wehr dictionary. Upgrade your sources, boys.
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Re: The last word of your mother tongue you have learnt ?

Postby md0 » 2018-07-16, 21:25

I remain utterly unable to read Arabic, so I will stick to the romanisation.

This though reminds me also of the word καπιλές (CyGr)-gabile (CyTr), derogatory for "your kin". That also sounds Arabic, maybe the same root?
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Re: The last word of your mother tongue you have learnt ?

Postby linguoboy » 2018-07-16, 21:26

md0 wrote:This though reminds me also of the word καπιλές (CyGr)-gabile (CyTr), derogatory for "your kin". That also sounds Arabic, maybe the same root?

Same (triliteral) root, different derivation.
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Re: The last word of your mother tongue you have learnt ?

Postby md0 » 2018-07-16, 21:36

Hm, and kabul etmek > qabūl 'acceptance' is the same.
I wonder if there's consensus on whether Semitic consonantal roots have a core meaning or if that comes after the derivation (of a temple? not sure about the terminology).
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