True false friends

This is our main forum. Here, anything related to languages and linguistics can be discussed.

Moderator: Forum Administrators

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5435
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Novi Sad
Country: RS Serbia (Србија)

Re: True false friends

Postby Saim » 2019-03-02, 13:25

(pt) taça (de vinho) = (es) copa de vino
wine glass

(es) taza (de café) = (pt) xícara de café
cup of coffee

User avatar
Homine.Sardu
Posts: 290
Joined: 2017-10-15, 12:05

Re: True false friends

Postby Homine.Sardu » 2019-03-02, 16:27

Saim wrote:(pt) taça (de vinho) = (es) copa de vino
wine glass

(es) taza (de café) = (pt) xícara de café
cup of coffee


Interesting the last Portuguese word, it's quite similar to Sardinian. I wonder which is the origin.

xícara -> cícchera or chícchera (a large cup, like those used for tea or breakfast)
taça -> tassa or tazza (cup)

tazzitta (diminutive of tazza) = cup for coffee

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5435
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Novi Sad
Country: RS Serbia (Србија)

Re: True false friends

Postby Saim » 2019-03-02, 19:59

Homine.Sardu wrote:
Saim wrote:(pt) taça (de vinho) = (es) copa de vino
wine glass

(es) taza (de café) = (pt) xícara de café
cup of coffee


Interesting the last Portuguese word, it's quite similar to Sardinian. I wonder which is the origin.

xícara -> cícchera or chícchera (a large cup, like those used for tea or breakfast)
taça -> tassa or tazza (cup)

tazzitta (diminutive of tazza) = cup for coffee


From Mexican Spanish jícara (a kind of small bowl), originally from Nahuatl (xīcalli according to Wiktionary).

This dictionary gives the same etymology for Neapolitan chiccara. I can't find the Spanish word ("chícara" apparently) it attributes it to, though. The RAE doesn't have it and googling it gives Portuguese results (but in Portuguese ch and x are pronounced the same so it's a typo). Maybe it's an error.

User avatar
Olinguito
Posts: 1385
Joined: 2014-11-15, 12:40
Gender: male
Contact:

Re: True false friends

Postby Olinguito » 2019-03-03, 21:17

English (en) (I) am
Romanian (ro) (eu) am – I have
Bassaricyon neblina

Linguaphile
Posts: 2319
Joined: 2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: True false friends

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-03-03, 21:57

Saim wrote:
Homine.Sardu wrote:
Saim wrote:(pt) taça (de vinho) = (es) copa de vino
wine glass

(es) taza (de café) = (pt) xícara de café
cup of coffee


Interesting the last Portuguese word, it's quite similar to Sardinian. I wonder which is the origin.

xícara -> cícchera or chícchera (a large cup, like those used for tea or breakfast)
taça -> tassa or tazza (cup)

tazzitta (diminutive of tazza) = cup for coffee


From Mexican Spanish jícara (a kind of small bowl), originally from Nahuatl (xīcalli according to Wiktionary).


And the Portuguese usage xícara matches the the Mexican Spanish word jícara very closely, because a jícara is not just any "small bowl" but specifically a small bowl (which could also be described as a large, handle-less cup) for serving hot beverages. It is normally made either out of a gourd or clay (originally only the gourd; jícaro is the name for the calabash plant it comes from). I believe Náhuatl xīcalli / xical refers to both the gourd cup and the plant.
A jícara can be used for other things, but its traditional use is for serving hot drinks like hot chocolate, champurrado, or atole.
Taza in Spanish is used for various kinds of cups, not only a coffee cup. It can also be a measuring cup or even a toilet bowl (but not a wine glass).

User avatar
Homine.Sardu
Posts: 290
Joined: 2017-10-15, 12:05

Re: True false friends

Postby Homine.Sardu » 2019-03-04, 8:24

Linguaphile wrote:
Saim wrote:Taza in Spanish is used for various kinds of cups, not only a coffee cup. It can also be a measuring cup or even a toilet bowl (but not a wine glass).


Also in Sardinian "tazza" is used for various kind of cups; but the diminutive "tazzitta" is usually the cup used for coffee, or a little cup used to drink strong liquors.

The cup for coffee is also called "ciccheredda" (diminutive of cícchera). While the augmentative "ciccherone" is a large cup, or bowl for breakfast, larger that the usual tea cups.

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 23399
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: True false friends

Postby linguoboy » 2019-03-04, 16:19

(fr) grès sandstone; stoneware
(ca) gres sandstone; stoneware
(it)/(es) gres stoneware

(it) arenaria sandstone
(ca) arenària sandwort
(es) arenaria sandwort; turnstone
(fr) arénaire sandwort (f); gladiator (m)
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24482
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: True false friends

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-03-04, 18:09

Saim wrote:The RAE doesn't have it and googling it gives Portuguese results (but in Portuguese ch and x are pronounced the same so it's a typo).

In Portuguese, I think that's an alternative spelling, not a typo (TY Portuguese introduces that word with both spellings).

User avatar
Luís
Forum Administrator
Posts: 7780
Joined: 2002-07-12, 22:44
Location: Lisboa
Country: PT Portugal (Portugal)

Re: True false friends

Postby Luís » 2019-03-05, 9:30

Xícara is only used in Brazil, btw. In Portugal, we say chávena (from Chinese 茶碗 ‎cháwǎn - “teacup”‎)
Quot linguas calles, tot homines vales

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5435
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Novi Sad
Country: RS Serbia (Србија)

Re: True false friends

Postby Saim » 2019-03-06, 19:42

Luís wrote:Xícara is only used in Brazil, btw. In Portugal, we say chávena (from Chinese 茶碗 ‎cháwǎn - “teacup”‎)


Thanks!

Here's another one I learned from the Portuguese Wiktionary entry for chávena:

(pt) asa - both wing (synonym: ala) and handle
(es) asa - only handle, wing is ala
(ca) nansa (also "ansa" apparently) - only handle, wing is ala

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 23399
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: True false friends

Postby linguoboy » 2019-03-07, 15:45

(ca) gebre frost
(tr) gebre caper
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5435
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Novi Sad
Country: RS Serbia (Србија)

Re: True false friends

Postby Saim » 2019-03-07, 19:35

(gl)/(pt) espallar / espalhar - to spread
[cat. escampar, estendre; untar when talking about food]

(ca) espatllar - to spoil, break
[pt./gal. - estragar (?)]


(pt) estropear - to knock, to knock loudly
[es. tocar (a) la puerta, golpear la puerta]

(es) estropear - to spoil, ruin, break
[pt./gal. - estragar (?)]

User avatar
Ciarán12
Posts: 3509
Joined: 2011-12-31, 15:23
Real Name: Ciarán
Gender: male
Location: Baile Átha Cliath (Dublin)
Country: IE Ireland (Éire / Ireland)

Re: True false friends

Postby Ciarán12 » 2019-03-07, 23:55

Saim wrote:(pt) estropear - to knock, to knock loudly


(pt) estropiar - to cripple, to maim

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5435
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Novi Sad
Country: RS Serbia (Србија)

Re: True false friends

Postby Saim » 2019-03-08, 9:44

Ciarán12 wrote:
Saim wrote:(pt) estropear - to knock, to knock loudly


(pt) estropiar - to cripple, to maim


Cool! A bit closer to the Spanish meaning, although still a false friend.

How would you say that a computer is broken in Portuguese? In Catalan you would say aquest ordinador està espatllat; I think the more literal translation trencat (generally equivalent to Spanish roto, from romper) would imply that the computer was physically fractured or shattered in some way.

I think that in Spanish the same would go for roto (=~ cat. trencat) vs. estropeado (=~ cat. espatllat), but I'm not sure.

Image

User avatar
Homine.Sardu
Posts: 290
Joined: 2017-10-15, 12:05

Re: True false friends

Postby Homine.Sardu » 2019-03-09, 9:43

(pt) estropiar - to cripple, to maim
(it) storpiare - to cripple, to maim
(co) struppià - to cripple, to maim

(sc) istroppiare - to hurt badly

P.S.

In Sardinian and Corsican it's also used as synonymous of "mispronounce"

(sc) Istroppiare una paràula / unu cognomene
(co) Struppià una parolla / un cugnome

etc.etc.

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5435
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Novi Sad
Country: RS Serbia (Србија)

Re: True false friends

Postby Saim » 2019-03-09, 20:21

Interesting, thanks!

---

(pt)(gl)(es)(ca) burro
(ast) burru
donkey

(it) burro
butter

User avatar
Homine.Sardu
Posts: 290
Joined: 2017-10-15, 12:05

Re: True false friends

Postby Homine.Sardu » 2019-03-10, 11:51

(it) cocomero (water melon)
(sc) cucumere, cugumere (cucumber)

(la) appellare (to call)
(fr) appeler (to call)
(sc) appeddare (to bark)

(en) to bawl (to cry, to weep loudly)
(sc) abbaulare (ad baulare? = to howl)

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 23399
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: True false friends

Postby linguoboy » 2019-03-10, 12:53

Saim wrote:(pt)(gl)(es)(ca) burro
(ast) burru
donkey

(it) burro
butter

The linguist Mario Pei tells an anecdote about his uncle, an opera singer, relying on his Italian when touring South America. All goes well until he tries to order “due uova con burro” for breakfast in Argentina and the server patiently explains to him that donkeys don’t lay eggs.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5435
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Novi Sad
Country: RS Serbia (Србија)

Re: True false friends

Postby Saim » 2019-03-11, 7:30

linguoboy wrote:
Saim wrote:(pt)(gl)(es)(ca) burro
(ast) burru
donkey

(it) burro
butter

The linguist Mario Pei tells an anecdote about his uncle, an opera singer, relying on his Italian when touring South America. All goes well until he tries to order “due uova con burro” for breakfast in Argentina and the server patiently explains to him that donkeys don’t lay eggs.


:lol:

By the way, I never realised that uova is the plural of uovo in Italian. Fossilised neuter ending, I guess?

And the plural is feminine, singular is masculine, apparently. :shock: I'm more used to this sort of weirdness in Slavic than in Romance.

User avatar
Homine.Sardu
Posts: 290
Joined: 2017-10-15, 12:05

Re: True false friends

Postby Homine.Sardu » 2019-03-11, 8:27

Saim wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
Saim wrote:(pt)(gl)(es)(ca) burro
(ast) burru
donkey

(it) burro
butter

The linguist Mario Pei tells an anecdote about his uncle, an opera singer, relying on his Italian when touring South America. All goes well until he tries to order “due uova con burro” for breakfast in Argentina and the server patiently explains to him that donkeys don’t lay eggs.


:lol:

By the way, I never realised that uova is the plural of uovo in Italian. Fossilised neuter ending, I guess?

And the plural is feminine, singular is masculine, apparently. :shock: I'm more used to this sort of weirdness in Slavic than in Romance.


There is a number of this oddities in Italian :

uovo - uova
braccio - braccia
osso - ossa
dito - dita (finger)



While in Sardinian all plurals are from Latin accusatives :

ovu, ou -> ovos, òos
bratzu -> bratzos
ossu -> ossos
poddighe -> poddighes
(Sardinian uses the Latin "pollex-pollicis" = thumb, to indicate all fingers)


Return to “General Language Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest