True false friends

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linguoboy
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Re: True false friends

Postby linguoboy » 2019-07-11, 15:17

(es) hediondo stinking
(pt) hediondo heinous (e.g. crime hediondo violent crime)

(az) pazı beetroot
(tr) pazı chard
Last edited by linguoboy on 2019-07-11, 17:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: True false friends

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-07-11, 16:06

Car wrote:
Homine.Sardu wrote:Good morning!

Returning to the false friends, I find this quite interesting.

(en) factory - (it) fabbrica
(it ) fattoria - (en) farm

While both factory and fattoria have different meaning, they derive from the same Latin noun "factoria", derived from the verb "facere" (to make).

Another interesting thing is that the English "factory" has a cognate in the antiquated Italian "manifattura" (factory); from late Latin "manifactura or manifactoria", derived from "manu + facere" (to make by hand).
The term "manifattura" was used to indicate the factories before the industrial revolution, where everything was made by hand and not with machines.

German also uses Fabrik for factory. Apparently, Faktorei was used for commercial settlements, particularly in colonies. It also comes from Latin "factoria".

German also used Manufaktur that way.


With the "factory" meaning words related to (it) fabbrica exist in all sorts of languages as cognates and loanwords:
((es) fábrica, (et) vabrik, (liv) fabrik, (vot) faabrikka), etc.
Estonian has a near-synonym tehas, with tehas generally used for larger manufacturing (lennukitehas: "airplane factory", metallurgiatehas: "steelworks") and vabrik generally used for lighter manufacturing (riidevabrik "clothing factory," puuvillavabrik "cotton mill"), although I think the difference between the two is more of a tendency than a hard-and-fast rule.

And of course there is also:
(es) fábrica (and the similar words in other languages already mentioned) factory
(en) fabric cloth, essential structure of something

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Re: True false friends

Postby linguoboy » 2019-07-16, 15:57

(es) (LA) tuna prickly pear, nopal
(es) (ES) tuna student vocal group (LA estudiantina)
(en) tuna
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Re: True false friends

Postby OldBoring » 2019-07-17, 10:32

Does LA means Latin America or Los Angeles?

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Re: True false friends

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-07-22, 8:33

I think Latin America since tuna in that particular sense comes from Quechua. Apparently, this is a word even in English now!
linguoboy wrote:(es) (LA) tuna prickly pear, nopal
(es) (ES) tuna student vocal group (LA estudiantina)
(en) tuna

(European?) Portuguese has tuna in the sense of 'student vocal group', too.

Maori (mi)Samoan (sm) tuna - eel
Various Cariban languages: tuna - water

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Re: True false friends

Postby linguoboy » 2019-07-22, 15:00

vijayjohn wrote:I think Latin America since tuna in that particular sense comes from Quechua. Apparently, this is a word even in English now!
linguoboy wrote:(es) (LA) tuna prickly pear, nopal
(es) (ES) tuna student vocal group (LA estudiantina)
(en) tuna

(European?) Portuguese has tuna in the sense of 'student vocal group', too.

ES = España. (Though I suppose you could also read it as "European Spanish".)

"LA" for "Latin America" is standard usage when discussing Spanish varieties. I would think it would be extremely rare to find features or lexical items that are common in Los Angeles and unknown elsewhere.
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Re: True false friends

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-07-22, 16:00

vijayjohn wrote:I think Latin America since tuna in that particular sense comes from Quechua.

From Taíno (Arawakan language of the Caribbean).

linguoboy wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:
linguoboy wrote:(es) (LA) tuna prickly pear, nopal
(es) (ES) tuna student vocal group (LA estudiantina)
(en) tuna

(European?) Portuguese has tuna in the sense of 'student vocal group', too.

ES = España. (Though I suppose you could also read it as "European Spanish".)

The "student group" meaning of tuna is definitely used in Mexico and other areas of Latin America, not just Spain. The "prickly pear fruit" and "student group" meanings are used in the same locations (not a regional difference), it's just context that distinguishes which meaning is meant. (Like the words muñeca "doll" and muñeca "wrist" which are likewise used throughout the Spanish-speaking world and distinguished by context.) If you're eating the tuna it's probably the fruit; if the tuna is singing to you it is probably a group of students. :D

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Re: True false friends

Postby linguoboy » 2019-07-22, 16:13

Now I really want to find a gif of prickly pears serenading me in costume.
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Re: True false friends

Postby Ciarán12 » 2019-07-27, 9:48

(nl) dapper - brave
(en-gb) dapper

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Re: True false friends

Postby OldBoring » 2019-07-28, 12:00

linguoboy wrote:"LA" for "Latin America" is standard usage when discussing Spanish varieties. I would think it would be extremely rare to find features or lexical items that are common in Los Angeles and unknown elsewhere.

Why? City slangs are quite common. People in Los Angeles don't speak 洛杉矶话?

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Re: True false friends

Postby Dormouse559 » 2019-07-28, 16:58

(fr) marier
(en) marry

I already knew these verbs had a false friendship, but today they finally got me. "Marier", when used transitively, means "marry off; give away in marriage". While "marry" can mean that, the more common usage these days is "take as a spouse".

So when I read the headline "Stéphanie de Monaco marie son fils, Louis Ducruet" (Stephanie of Monaco marries [off] her son, Louis Ducruet), for a second I thought the story was about a mother getting married to her son.

BTW, the "take as a spouse" meaning is expressed with "se marier avec" in French.
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Re: True false friends

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-07-28, 19:12

OldBoring wrote:
linguoboy wrote:"LA" for "Latin America" is standard usage when discussing Spanish varieties. I would think it would be extremely rare to find features or lexical items that are common in Los Angeles and unknown elsewhere.

Why? City slangs are quite common. People in Los Angeles don't speak 洛杉矶话?

They do :waytogo: (I think I would expect 洛杉矶话 to be a variety of English rather than a variety of Spanish, but even for Spanish, they do):

Why Los Angeles Spanish Matters
The gradual loss of mood distinctions in Los Angeles Spanish
The Segmental Phonology of Los Angeles Spanish
Los Angeles Spanish: A Descriptive Analysis
Los Angeles Vernacular Spanish: An analytical approach
Prestige, utility, and evidence of Los Angeles Vernacular Spanish
El habla y las actitudes de los hispanohablantes de Los Ángeles

and so on. It's sort of a blend of Mexican and Central American Spanish with many of their original regionalisms removed, with English influences added, and lots of its own regional slang. It's often grouped more generally with Southwest Spanish or California Spanish though (or referred to as Angeleno/Angelino Spanish or Los Angeles Vernacular Spanish or LAVS). Anyway, yeah, it exists!

As for the abbreviations LA and ES, it's true that "LA" isn't normally assumed to refer to Los Angeles when talking about varieties of Spanish (although a couple of the articles I linked above actually do exactly that). I understood that "Latin America" was meant in the post above, but maybe because I already knew where the words were used. It's just not all that standardized. Some sources will contrast European and American Spanish with the abbreviations Spn/Amer, or Eur/Amer; one I often use has AmL/ES. More often than not the abbreviations are more regional or entirely country-specific: CAm, SAm, MX, GT, AR (or Mex, Guat, Arg), etc. Most materials provide a key to the abbreviations used because it's not always obvious what is meant.

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Re: True false friends

Postby Ciarán12 » 2019-08-03, 11:20

Sto cominiciando a imparare l'italiano e sto trovando molte falsi amici:

(it) sbagliare - to make a mistake ((pt-br) enganar-se, errar)
(pt-br) espalhar - to spread

(it) baffi - mustache ((pt-br) bigode)
(pt-br) bafo - (bad) breath

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Re: True false friends

Postby Olinguito » 2019-08-04, 9:47

Ukrainian (uk) гроші – money
Russian (ru) грош – penny, small amount of money

Ukrainian (uk) час – time
Russian (ru) час – hour

Ukrainian (uk) книжка – book
Russian (ru) книжка – booklet
Bassaricyon neblina

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Re: True false friends

Postby Ciarán12 » 2019-08-04, 11:52

Olinguito wrote:Ukrainian (uk) гроші – money
Russian (ru) грош – penny, small amount of money

Ukrainian (uk) час – time
Russian (ru) час – hour

Ukrainian (uk) книжка – book
Russian (ru) книжка – booklet


You just watched that Langfocus episode on Ukrainian vs Russian, didn't you?

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Re: True false friends

Postby Olinguito » 2019-08-04, 12:35

Ciarán12 wrote:You just watched that Langfocus episode on Ukrainian vs Russian, didn't you?

I did. :) And these are genuinely true false friends which haven't been mentioned in this thread yet. It's an excellent video (apart from the misspelling of "asymmetric" at the end). 8-)

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Re: True false friends

Postby Ciarán12 » 2019-08-09, 21:15

(ko) 어제 - eoje - yesterday
(pt-br) hoje / (it) oggi - today

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Re: True false friends

Postby Ciarán12 » 2019-08-11, 15:57

Thought I had already put this one here, but apparently not:

(pt-br) dia - day
(ga) Dia - God

The similarity is compounded all the more when you try to explain to a Brazilian that (ga) Dia dhuit! means (pt-br) Bom dia! and they naturally assume the "dia" part of the phrase must mean the same in both languages. They're also pronounced almost identically.

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Re: True false friends

Postby linguoboy » 2019-08-14, 20:08

(ca) colgar bury
(es) colgar hang (up)

(ca) colgar-se get into bed
(es) colgarse crash, freeze up, fail
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Re: True false friends

Postby Vlürch » 2019-08-15, 13:49

Dormouse559 wrote:So when I read the headline "Stéphanie de Monaco marie son fils, Louis Ducruet" (Stephanie of Monaco marries [off] her son, Louis Ducruet), for a second I thought the story was about a mother getting married to her son.

:rotfl:

To be honest, I would've thought the exact same and probably wouldn't have even considered the possibility that it didn't mean that, no matter how weird it would be, since I never even knew the word French (fr) marier in the first place but it's such an obvious cognate... and royals all around the world have done stuff like that in the past, so even if it'd be considered pretty fucked up in the modern world....

...but then again, I've forgotten pretty much all the little French I ever learned, so I'd misunderstand the majority of things.


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