Multilingual True Friends

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Homine.Sardu
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Re: Multilingual True Friends

Postby Homine.Sardu » 2018-04-05, 7:40

Vlürch wrote:Finnish (fi) sama - same
Estonian (et) sama - same
Malay (ms) sama - same
Indonesian (id) sama - same
Cebuano (ceb) sama - same
Sanskrit (sa) सम (sama) - same
Hindi (hi) सम (sama) - same
Urdu (ur) سم‎ (sama) - same
Esperanto (eo) sama - same
Ido (art-ido) sama - same

...but the non-IE ones are borrowed from IE languages (well, at least in Finnish and Estonian, and according to Wiktionary Malay and Indonesian too, although it doesn't mention the etymology of the Cebuano one so I'm just assuming).


A little experiment of reverse engineering :

Vulgar Latin : ipsa metipsima = the same (feminine), herself
Actual Sardinian : issa matessi = herself
Actual Sardinian : sa matessi = the same

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IpseDixit
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Re: Multilingual True Friends

Postby IpseDixit » 2018-04-05, 8:37

Homine.Sardu wrote:A little experiment of reverse engineering :

Vulgar Latin : ipsa metipsima = the same (feminine), herself
Actual Sardinian : issa matessi = herself
Actual Sardinian : sa matessi = the same


I really don't get what you're trying to prove with this "experiment" of yours. You seem to have a habit of deriving the etymology of words based solely on random resemblances, whereas, in reality, it's not as simple as that.

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Homine.Sardu
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Re: Multilingual True Friends

Postby Homine.Sardu » 2018-04-05, 8:51

IpseDixit wrote:
Homine.Sardu wrote:A little experiment of reverse engineering :

Vulgar Latin : ipsa metipsima = the same (feminine), herself
Actual Sardinian : issa matessi = herself
Actual Sardinian : sa matessi = the same


I really don't get what you're trying to prove with this "experiment" of yours. You seem to have a habit of deriving the etymology of words based solely on random resemblances, whereas, in reality, it's not as simple as that.


Latin was a IE language or not? The Latin expression could be derived from a common IE expression which originated also the Germanic version?

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IpseDixit
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Re: Multilingual True Friends

Postby IpseDixit » 2018-04-05, 9:12

Homine.Sardu wrote:Latin was a IE language or not? The Latin expression could be derived from a common IE expression which originated also the Germanic version?


Dude, you just cherry-picked two syllables in a phrase, not even a resembling word. Applying your method, I'm pretty sure we can prove anything.

But anyways, we're so lucky to have etymological dictionaries so we can see whether your theory is true:

same - from PIE *samos "same," from suffixed form of root *sem- (1) "one; as one, together with."
https://www.etymonline.com/word/same

ipse - compounded from Proto-Indo-European *éy and *swé.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ipse

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Homine.Sardu
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Re: Multilingual True Friends

Postby Homine.Sardu » 2018-04-05, 9:31

I have no theory, it's you that are misunderstanding, I was just pointing out how among different and distant languages sometimes things can develop similarities and equivalences in both written and spoken form, and with the same meaning.

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IpseDixit
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Re: Multilingual True Friends

Postby IpseDixit » 2018-04-05, 10:06

Homine.Sardu wrote:I have no theory

Latin was a IE language or not? The Latin expression could be derived from a common IE expression which originated also the Germanic version?


This is not a theory? Well ok, maybe it would've been more correct to call it "hypothesis" or "speculation" but I'm pretty sure those three words are quite interchengeable in the common, non-scientific language.

Homine.Sardu wrote:I was just pointing out how among different and distant languages sometimes things can develop similarities and equivalences in both written and spoken form, and with the same meaning.


Honestly, I'm under the impression that most of the times you're trying to advance an hypothesis regarding the etymology of a word (I mean, that's what you did above, suggesting a common root for same and ipsa metipsima) rather than just pointing out coincidental similarities. But hey, that's just me.

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Homine.Sardu
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Re: Multilingual True Friends

Postby Homine.Sardu » 2018-04-05, 10:50

This discussion it's useless, let's cut it out.

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IpseDixit
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Re: Multilingual True Friends

Postby IpseDixit » 2018-04-11, 20:04

(it) valuta - currency
(sl) valuta - currency
(nl) valuta - currency
(lt) valiuta - currency
(fi) valuutta - currency

(Same goes for Danish, Latvian, Bulgarian and a bunch of other languages)

I'm pretty sure the origin of this word is Italian considering that it is an old form of the feminine past participle of valere - to be worth, but does anybody know why it spread so much across Europe?

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Re: Multilingual True Friends

Postby linguoboy » 2018-04-11, 21:04

IpseDixit wrote:I'm pretty sure the origin of this word is Italian considering that it is an old form of the feminine past participle of valere - to be worth, but does anybody know why it spread so much across Europe?

Because Italians spread banking all across Europe. The word "bank" itself is of Italian origin (well, Germanic originally, but it was the Lombards who extended its meaning to "moneychanger's table").
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

h34
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Re: Multilingual True Friends

Postby h34 » 2018-06-17, 4:42

(mhr) ма (ma)
(zh) 吗 (ma)
Yes/no-question marker, turning an affirmative sentence into an interrogative sentence.
Corrections welcome

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voron
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Re: Multilingual True Friends

Postby voron » 2018-06-17, 5:24

IpseDixit wrote:(it) valuta -
(Same goes for Danish, Latvian, Bulgarian and a bunch of other languages)

Russian, too (and I would dare to assume that it entered Latvian, Lithuanian, and probably Bulgarian, too, from Russian).

EDIT: I just checked on GT -- it's 'valuta' (with variations in spelling) in Georgian, Azerbaijani, Kazakh and Uzbek too.


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