suggestions about slavonics

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Polonus
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Re: suggestions about slavonics

Postby Polonus » 2011-05-01, 9:38

Veqq wrote:Zvuči lepo


"Zvući lepo." This is a very strong, serious and intellectually profound argument which marks the initiation of a new school in linguistics; zvućilepism.
Accordingly, slavonic languages are devided into two groups;
- those which zvućilepo, and
- those which do not.

:D

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Re: suggestions about slavonics

Postby Veqq » 2011-05-01, 15:51

:D :D :D
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Re: suggestions about slavonics

Postby Oleksij » 2011-05-01, 16:20

Polonus wrote:
Veqq wrote:Zvuči lepo


"Zvući lepo." This is a very strong, serious and intellectually profound argument which marks the initiation of a new school in linguistics; zvućilepism.
Accordingly, slavonic languages are devided into two groups;
- those which zvućilepo, and
- those which do not.

:D

Nothing new here, that philosophical current in linguistics and other things is as old as the hills.
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Re: suggestions about slavonics

Postby TeneReef » 2011-05-01, 19:21

Czech is complicated because of diglossia, you will have to learn two different grammars at the same time (like in Swiss German).

Macedonian, Slovenian, Slovak, Croatian, Serbian
would be my picks :P

Macedonian and Slovak are the sweetest Slavic languages.
Croatian, Serbian and Slovenian aren't too bad.

I don't like the way Bosnian and Czech sound. :hmm:

Polish, Russian and Ukranian sound good, but are difficult.
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Re: suggestions about slavonics

Postby księżycowy » 2011-05-01, 19:30

TeneReef wrote:
Polish, Russian and Ukranian sound good, but are difficult.

Which is what makes them so cool. What fun is it without a challenge? :mrgreen:

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Re: suggestions about slavonics

Postby Ashkhan » 2011-05-01, 19:40

TeneReef wrote:Polish, Russian and Ukranian sound good, but are difficult.


You're a Slav speaking English, Portuguese & Spanish on a decent level with interest in Indian sub-continent languages and you say the other Slavic languages are difficult?

Wut?
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Re: suggestions about slavonics

Postby Æxylis » 2011-05-01, 23:11

Nobody's mentioned anything about Rusyn or White Russian... no love for these languages? :(
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Re: suggestions about slavonics

Postby hashi » 2011-05-01, 23:12

邪悪歌 wrote:Nobody's mentioned anything about Rusyn or White Russian... no love for these languages? :(


Obviously not.

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Re: suggestions about slavonics

Postby księżycowy » 2011-05-01, 23:40

Maybe if there were more/easier to find resources!

I was quite interested in Belorussian myself, but due to lack of resources and all . . . :(

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Re: suggestions about slavonics

Postby ILuvEire » 2011-05-02, 1:53

What kind of diglossia is there with Czech?
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Re: suggestions about slavonics

Postby Æxylis » 2011-05-02, 2:16

well I'm working on that... if I find (legal) resources, I'll make sure to post them for you :D
here's one that I found recently to start:
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Re: suggestions about slavonics

Postby księżycowy » 2011-05-02, 11:29

Actually I think I've seen that before. Thanks for the link! :)

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Re: suggestions about slavonics

Postby Oleksij » 2011-05-02, 23:21

TeneReef wrote:Polish, Russian and Ukranian sound good, but are difficult.

Ukrainian is arguably the easiest Slavic language, which sounds about right given that it's more or less just a standardised dialectal continuum between Polish and Russian.
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Re: suggestions about slavonics

Postby Lenguas » 2011-05-02, 23:58

Ukrainian is arguably the easiest Slavic language, which sounds about right given that it's more or less just a standardised dialectal continuum between Polish and Russian.

¿Más fácil? ¿Cómo has venido a esa conclusión? Existe menos recursos aprender ese idioma, si se hace una comparación entre ucraniana, ruso y polaco. Existe menos páginas web en ucraniana. La gramática tiene conjugaciones y declinaciones. Usa el alfabeto cirílico. Automáticamente la utilización del alfabeto cirílico significa que el idioma es más difícil. Sé este realidad porque, de todas las lenguas, puedo leer inglés más fácilmente. Inglés escrito en cirílico es más difícil a leer que inglés en el alfabeto latín. Agregar esta complicación a cualquier lengua, automáticamente significa que la lengua seré más difícil a leer por un Anglosajón. Absolutamente automáticamente. Por eso, croata, polaco y checo son más fácil. Sin embargo, porque checo y polaco usa demasiados diacríticos, en mí opinión, son más difícil decodificar. Mucha gente están de acuerdo que el ortografía de polaco es difícil a leer. Por eso, checo y croata (y podemos añadir eslovaco también) son más fácil. Porque diacríticos causa una lengua ser más complicado en papiro, porque las palabras parecen más extranjeros, porque croato y eslovaco no lo tiene, ellos son más fácil. El vocabulario es más difícil si se hace una comparación con latín, por ejemplo, porque no existe muchos cognados con inglés. Adquirir un conocimiento pasivo de búlgaro es más fácil, porque no tiene muchas declinaciones. Al principio se puede ignorar el tiempo de los verbs completemente, y lo aprender gradualmente cuando se lee. Por lo tanto, búlgaro es más fácil, porque no es posible a completemente ignorar las declinaciones en ucraniana. Sin embargo el ortografía de croata y eslovaco son más fácil. Pero las declensiones son más difícil. Por eso, búlgario banat es más fácil en general, porque se usa el alfabeto latín.
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French: (Google Translate): Plus facile? Comment avez-vous arrivé à cette conclusion? Il ya moins de ressources pour apprendre cette langue, si une comparaison entre les chercheurs ukrainiens, russes et polonais. Il ya moins de pages web en Ukraine. La grammaire a conjugaisons et déclinaisons. Utilise l'alphabet cyrillique. Automatiquement utilisent l'alphabet cyrillique signifie que la langue est plus difficile. Je sais ce fait, car, de toutes les langues, je peux lire l'anglais plus facilement. Anglais écrit en cyrillique est plus difficile à lire que l'anglais dans l'alphabet latin. Ajouter cette complication à n'importe quelle langue, cela signifie automatiquement que la langue sera plus difficile à lire par un Anglo-Saxon. Absolument automatiquement. Par conséquent, croate, polonais et tchèque sont plus faciles. Cependant, parce qu'il utilise trop de signes diacritiques tchèques et polonais, à mon avis, sont plus difficiles à décoder. Beaucoup de gens conviennent que l'orthographe polonaise est difficile à lire. Par conséquent, tchèque et croate (et nous pouvons ajouter slovaque trop) sont plus faciles. Parce que les signes diacritiques provoque un papyrus langage plus compliqué, parce que les mots semblent plus étrangers, croate et slovaque, car vous n'avez pas, ils sont plus faciles. Le vocabulaire est plus difficile si une comparaison avec l'Amérique latine, par exemple, parce qu'il ya beaucoup de mots apparentés en anglais. Acquérir une connaissance passive de la langue bulgare est plus facile, car il a de nombreuses baisses. Au début, vous pouvez ignorer le temps des verbes complet, et apprend progressivement lors de la lecture. Par conséquent, le bulgare est plus facile, car il n'est pas possible d'ignorer complètement les baisses en Ukraine. Cependant, l'orthographe croate et slovaque est plus facile. Mais la déclinaison sont plus difficiles. Par conséquent, banat la Bulgarie est plus facile en général, car elle utilise l'alphabet latin.
English: (Google Translate): "Easier? How did you come to that conclusion? There is less resources to learn this language, if a comparison between Ukrainian, Russian and Polish. There is less web pages in Ukraine. The grammar has conjugations and declensions. Uses the Cyrillic alphabet. Automatically use the Cyrillic alphabet means the language is more difficult. I know this fact because, of all languages, I can read English more easily. English writing in Cyrillic is harder to read than English in the Latin alphabet. Add this complication to any language, it automatically means that the language will be more difficult to read by an Anglo-Saxon. Absolutely automatically. Therefore, Croatian, Polish and Czech are easier. However, because it uses too many Czech and Polish diacritics, in my opinion, are more difficult to decode. Many people agree that the Polish spelling is difficult to read. Therefore, Czech and Croatian (and we can add Slovak too) are easier. Because diacritics causes a more complicated language papyrus, because the words seem more foreign, Croatian and Slovak because you do not, they are easier. The vocabulary is more difficult if a comparison with Latin, for example, because there are many cognates with English. Acquire a passive knowledge of Bulgarian is easier, because it has many declines. At first you can ignore the time of the full verbs, and gradually learn when reading. Therefore, Bulgarian is easier, because it is not possible to completely ignore the declines in Ukraine. However, the Croatian and Slovak spelling is easier. But the declension are more difficult. Therefore, bulgaria banat is easier in general because it uses the Latin alphabet.

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Re: suggestions about slavonics

Postby Saim » 2011-05-03, 0:53

Lenguas wrote:La gramática tiene conjugaciones y declinaciones.

No me di acuerdo de que hubiera un idioma eslavico sin conjugaciones.

(I didn't realize that there was a Slavic language without conjugations)

Usa el alfabeto cirílico.

El alfabeto cirilico es casi igual a lo latin. Intenta a aprender arabe o mandarin y veras un "alfabeto diferente".

(The Cyrillic alphabet is nearly identical to Latin. Try and learn Arabic or Mandarin and you'll see a different alphabet.)

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Re: suggestions about slavonics

Postby Ashkhan » 2011-05-03, 8:37

Lenguas wrote:¿Más fácil? ¿Cómo has venido a esa conclusión?


Perhaps because he's Ukrainian speaking both Russian and Polish and he can see the difference?

Lenguas wrote:La gramática tiene conjugaciones y declinaciones.


Oh my God! That's terrible!

Lenguas wrote:Usa el alfabeto cirílico. Automáticamente la utilización del alfabeto cirílico significa que el idioma es más difícil.


Haha, yeah, right. Says you, a guy unable to learn a language when it doesn't use the Latin alphabet. As proved here:
Lenguas wrote:Sé este realidad porque, de todas las lenguas, puedo leer inglés más fácilmente. Inglés escrito en cirílico es más difícil a leer que inglés en el alfabeto latín.

Yeah. BTW - who writes English in Cirilics?

Lenguas wrote:Por lo tanto, búlgaro es más fácil, porque no es posible a completemente ignorar las declinaciones en ucraniana. Sin embargo el ortografía de croata y eslovaco son más fácil. Pero las declensiones son más difícil. Por eso, búlgario banat es más fácil en general, porque se usa el alfabeto latín.


That would explain why you gave up on Latin. Got scared by declensions, ain't ya kid? :lol:
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Re: suggestions about slavonics

Postby Yeshua.C » 2011-05-03, 10:00

I've seen something said several times which annoys me.

"No non-native speaker will ever learn Polish to the level I do - a native Polish speaker. Therefore, Polish is extremely difficult and beyond the abilities of most people" It's perhaps the most arrogant thing I've heard for a long time.

I'm a native English speaker and I've never, ever, met any non-native who speaks English with the fluidity and ease which I do. I've heard them speak well, but not like I do, and there are people with a far greater command of it than me (writers, poets, academics, etc). That means that English is super complex?

I really enjoy Polish and hope that when I get to learn it, Polish speakers don't try to discourage me by saying "it's too hard for you - don't bother". If more Polish speakers supported learners, you'd find the levels of proficiency rise. I'll master the language, I promise you that! :)

By the way, in the overall scheme of things, in the complexity of languages overall, Polish is merely moderately complex. There are things which would blow a Polish speaker's mind. haha

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Re: suggestions about slavonics

Postby księżycowy » 2011-05-03, 10:11

I honestly don't see what's so hard about reading the Cyrillic alphabet. It's much more phonetic then some languages using the Latin alphabet. And it's an alphabet, just like Latin, Greek, Armenian, ect. ect. It's not as bad as something like, say, Chinese characters.

And as far as the diacriticals in languages like Polish, they're not that hard either. It's just like learning that in the English word 'through' the letters ['th' = θ] and ['gh'] is silent. Obviously my English example has digraphs instead of diacritics, but they have the same basic function as the diacriticals in Polish. (They modify/change the sound of the letter.)

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Re: suggestions about slavonics

Postby Polonus » 2011-05-03, 13:40

księżycowy wrote:I honestly don't see what's so hard about reading the Cyrillic alphabet.


Well, I would argue with, księzycowy. There's something to it. Although I read cyryllic with ease, (no wonder after a 7 year intensive course at school, as an obligatory subject in those "communist times", plus my own interest in Russian) I still don't "absorb" it as naturaly as latin alphabet. I don't know how to put it... cyrillic looks sort of "flat", you read it as if it were behind an opaque glass. My friend who is a Russian l. teacher shares my view.

(IMH Russian would gain much more in its popularity if it adopted latin alph. But, can't be helped.)

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Re: suggestions about slavonics

Postby Ashkhan » 2011-05-03, 13:49

Polonus wrote:
księżycowy wrote:I honestly don't see what's so hard about reading the Cyrillic alphabet.
(IMH Russian would gain much more in its popularity if it adopted latin alph. But, can't be helped.)


Russian written in Latin would look as innatural as transliterated Arabic or Chinese written in Pinyin. It just wouldn't work.
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