Ugliest language

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Re: Ugliest language

Postby vijayjohn » 2016-06-30, 6:05

OldBoring wrote:I have the impression that all the languages that use the Perso-Arabic script do so because of Islam.

Well yeah, because that's the script the Qur'an is written in. ;)
Inshallah! Allahu Akhbar!

Inshallah = if (ʾin) God (llāh) wills (šāʾa); God willing
Allahu akbar = God is greatest

Allahu akhbar looks like "God is news"! :lol:

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Re: Ugliest language

Postby IpseDixit » 2016-06-30, 7:57

vijayjohn wrote:Allahu akhbar looks like "God is news"! :lol:


That reminds me of a joke that an Israeli guy told me: אללה עכבר (allah akhbar - allah is a mouse).

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Re: Ugliest language

Postby vijayjohn » 2016-06-30, 15:43

IpseDixit wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:Allahu akhbar looks like "God is news"! :lol:


That reminds me of a joke that an Israeli guy told me: אללה עכבר (allah akhbar - allah is a mouse).

Yeah, that seems to be a pretty widespread Israeli joke. I wonder where עכבר comes from, though. I can't seem to find any reliable information on it. So far, I've only found this:
Hebrew consonants have an inner meaning that is represented in any word root that the letter helps to make up; i. e. adding an "'Ayin-ע" as a prefix to a root verb creates a noun that also describes an animal's characteristic most apparant to the name giver. An example is "khavar" כבר (to hide); add an ע as a prefix, (ע represents a scurrying motion), and you have the Hebrew word "Akhbar," עכבר(mouse).

And this:
In our local library, I found a very important entry in the Encyclopedia Mikrait (Biblical Encyclopedia) called Milim Zarot (Foreign Words in the Bible) by the important Israeli linguist Chaim Rabin. [...] One of the Hebrew words that Rabin suggests comes from Arabic is none other than עכבר achbar, mouse! He writes that it probably meant "great / big one", in a euphemistic way. It would then very much be related to the Arabic akbar, which is אכבר in Hebrew, from the root כבר - "great". He writes that in certain Arabic dialects in the region it was common to switch between alef and ayin.

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Re: Ugliest language

Postby hayoshan » 2016-07-06, 8:05

IpseDixit wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:Allahu akhbar looks like "God is news"! :lol:


That reminds me of a joke that an Israeli guy told me: אללה עכבר (allah akhbar - allah is a mouse).

In Uyghur اللھ ئاق بار "God is white", is the same or close to the same in the other Turkic languages like Kyrgyz and Kazakh. It is not very funny to me, I would laugh if it was used for a punchline in a clever joke but not by its own because it has no context and feels clumsy as if missing information.
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Re: Ugliest language

Postby OldBoring » 2016-07-06, 8:16

Once I saw an "article" of a satirical trolling "news" site after the Paris attacks. An Italian tourist said to his friends "Andiamo al bar" ("let's go to the coffee bar/café"). Policemen understood "Allahu Akbar" and shot him.

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Re: Ugliest language

Postby isusbellus » 2016-07-19, 14:13

Danish
[flag=]sv[/flag] Native [flag=]fi[/flag] B1 [flag=]et[/flag] A1 [flag=]en[/flag] Depends, my pronunciation is bad

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Re: Ugliest language

Postby afroferake » 2016-08-08, 16:45

The rural Bahariyyan dialect of Egyptian Arabic is the ugliest of all the Arabic dialects. It's essentially as ugly to other Arabic dialects as Arabic is to other languages. I couldn't find any videos of it being spoken or any analysis or description of its phonology or differences, only a blog (link) which does not mention how different it is, presumebly because calling it uglier would be a rude perception. Their /ر/ and /ق/ are the worst. I'm not sure if they're [ʀ] and [ɢ] or [ɣ] and [g], may be variable. /ح/ and /خ/ are both [χ] and of the audio files on Wikipedia, /ج/ sounds closest to [ʄ] but I'm not at all sure if that's an accurate transcription as that would make it an implosive; the real sound is more likely [ɟ] or [ɟʝ]. Their vowels are just as bad.

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Re: Ugliest language

Postby Langsician » 2017-12-08, 12:23

It's really hard to think about THE ugliest language but in my humble opinion these languages sound "ugly" or "wrong" to me: Swedish, Danish, most of the tonal languages & Albanian.
Interested in learning: Polish, Czech, Ukrainian, Belarusian, Slovene, Slovak, Bulgarian, Serbo-Croatian, Macedonian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Estonian, Italian, Portuguese, Catalan, French, Romanian, Korean, Mandarin, German, Icelandic, Norwegian, Danish, Hungarian, Greek, Albanian, Mongolian, Kazakh, Arabic, Hebrew, Hindi... :whistle:

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Re: Ugliest language

Postby Zé do Rock » 2018-01-26, 23:25

uma vez eu fiz uma pesquisa com amigos e conhecidos.
once i made a poll with friends and acquaintances.

was is die schönste sprache, was is die hässlichste?
what is the most beutiful language, what is the ugliest?

they could give marks to all languages.

après tout, fransais a gagné, avec 38 points, suivi par italian, avec 31 points, espagnol avec 25.
after all, franch won, with 38 points, followed by italian, with 31 points, spanish with 25.

las lenguas mas inpopulares eran árabe con -4, holandés e inglés americano con -7, chino con -9.
the most unpopular languages wer arabic with -4, dutch and american english with -7, chinese with -9.

a maioria dos respondentes era aleman, daí tinha alguns brasileiros, americanos e alguns af outre países.
a maioria dos respondents era aleman, daí tinha alguns brasileiros, americanos e alguns de outros países.
most respondents wer german, then thare wer a few brazilians, americans and some from other countries.

ich persönlich bin bei der wahl der schönsten mit dem mainstream dacor: francish und italianish.
personally i agree with the mainstreem when it comes to elect the most butiful ones: francish und italianish.

i laike soudest asia languas too.
i like soudest asia languages too.

je nama pas la linguas super guturales, comm nederlandish, el alman de la suiss et de tirol, hebrian, arabian.
je neme pas lee langues trai guturales, comm nederlandish, alman de la suiss et du tirol, ébrian, arabian.
i dont like too guttural languages, as dutch, swiss and tirolan german, hebrian, arabian.

linguas con muche fricativas tampoco me gustan, como las linguas slavcas.
lenguas con muchas fricativas tampoco me gustan, como las lenguas slavcas.
i dont like languages with too many friccativs either, as the slavic languages.

o pior sao as línguas com muitos ch-ch, como o português de portugal, do rio i da amazonia.
the worse ar the languages with many sh-sh, as portugal portugase, the portugase of rio and from amazonia.

es gibt deutshe dialecte wi shwabish e middeldeutsh, die sin au gude candidatis, wi auk albanish.
es gibt deutshe dialekte wie shwabisch und mitteldeutsh, die sind auch gute kandidaten, wie auch albanish.

oh ya: la most agressive lingua i came to know was somali.
oh yes: the most agressiv language i came to know was somali.

ist come parler arabian avec la vitess af espanian. avec un mech na hand.
cest com parlee arabian avec la vitess del espanian. avec une épee a la min.
it is like speeking arabian with the speed of espanian. with a sword in the hand.

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Re: Ugliest language

Postby linguoboy » 2018-01-29, 16:36

I think I have a new choice for ugliest language.
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Re: Ugliest language

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-02-03, 17:58

linguoboy wrote:I think I have a new choice for ugliest language.

Did you ever have one before?

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Re: Ugliest language

Postby Moritz » 2018-05-13, 18:32

In a European context, many Slavic languages (aside from Russian and Bulgarian) have always this "Slavic" flat intonation to them, which sounds a bit cold and a bit boring: and the addition of "strange" consonant clusters doesn't help

While there are some exceptions among the Romance and (even) the Germanic languages, these sound more varied, there's something that makes these languages more alive in their intonation (intonation is often a factor understated when it comes to categorising a language)
I despise when people categorise the likes of the Germanic languages as ugly, for instance, just because of the likes of "flat" German: you get lively Swedish and Norwegian, "cool" English, heck, I even like Dutch, which except for the high frequency of uvular sounds doesn't sound that bad

Anyways, that's only my opinion: each language has its pro and cons

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Re: Ugliest language

Postby Moritz » 2018-05-13, 18:37

I'm mainly talking about standard German when I say flat: many regional dialects and the likes of Austrian German and Swiss German sound better

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Re: Ugliest language

Postby Vlürch » 2018-05-24, 14:50

Moritz wrote:lively Swedish and Norwegian

Heh, more proof of just how subjective stuff like this is: that's one reason I don't like them, although I don't know if I'd call them "ugly" because of it. Of course with Swedish there's a political/historical aspect to it that influences my view, but it can't be all there is to it since I don't like how Norwegian sounds either. Danish sounds funnier and weider, which makes it a little better. Icelandic is somewhat better, but not much, and it could be that my view is influenced by Björk. Germanic languages just aren't my cup of tea overall.

Anyway, I had a wisdom tooth removed today and overheard two women speaking something in the waiting room that sounded kinda like a mix of Arabic and Somali, so probably Somali Arabic. It was ugly as fuck, but the speakers were beautiful. :P

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Re: Ugliest language

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-05-25, 0:29

Vlürch wrote:Of course with Swedish there's a political/historical aspect to it that influences my view, but it can't be all there is to it since I don't like how Norwegian sounds either.

Does Norwegian sound especially different from Swedish?
Icelandic is somewhat better, but not much, and it could be that my view is influenced by Björk.

You like Björk?
Germanic languages just aren't my cup of tea overall.

What about English? :P
a mix of Arabic and Somali, so probably Somali Arabic

I'm not so sure about that. FWICT Somali Arabic = Djibouti Arabic = Ta'izzi-Adeni Arabic = Southern Yemeni Arabic.

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Re: Ugliest language

Postby Lur » 2018-05-26, 17:14

mōdgethanc wrote:
Vlürch wrote:
Then again, I'm kind of a traitor and saying this in person would make every nationalist shit themselves, but I also think Finnish sounds like shit in a bunch of ways, and if it was possible, I'd prefer that to be changed as well.
I get that you have a weird inferiority complex about your language, but as an Anglophone I get the last say on languages that look like shit.

Heh, it looks and sounds cute. I even find the reduced variety of consonants kind of interesting. I imagine the perceived cuteness of it is invisible to Finns. They have no taste! :P

I also have a soft spot for Estonian, and I've also read Finns not liking that one either, so...
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Re: Ugliest language

Postby Vlürch » 2018-06-02, 10:35

vijayjohn wrote:
Vlürch wrote:Of course with Swedish there's a political/historical aspect to it that influences my view, but it can't be all there is to it since I don't like how Norwegian sounds either.

Does Norwegian sound especially different from Swedish?

Not much, but I'd say it's somewhat less "bouncy" and "jolly" or whatever, like it sounds more serious and less like its speakers are always drunk and looking for someone to have sex with. I mean, Swedish sounds like the cast of Geordie Shore. Norwegian can sound like that too, but more often it sounds like they're already hungover. Danish, on the other hand, sounds like its speakers are on the verge of passing out... :lol:
vijayjohn wrote:You like Björk?

Of course!
vijayjohn wrote:
Germanic languages just aren't my cup of tea overall.

What about English? :P

Well, English has so many loanwords from French and Latin, etc. that it's not nearly as bad. Of course, it's also the one I've been exposed to the most and the only one I can actually understand and speak, so... I don't know, even the stuff I'd find annoying in other languages can sound nice in English.
vijayjohn wrote:
a mix of Arabic and Somali, so probably Somali Arabic

I'm not so sure about that. FWICT Somali Arabic = Djibouti Arabic = Ta'izzi-Adeni Arabic = Southern Yemeni Arabic.

Well, I don't really know anything about Yemeni Arabic, so it could have been that if it has more similarities to Somali than other forms of Arabic. It could also have simply been that they spoke a mix of Arabic and Somali, although I don't know why they'd have done that... or maybe it was just Somali but there was a higher proportion of Arabic vocabulary than usual, making it sound more like Arabic? I've heard Somali enough to be pretty confident in my ability to tell it apart from other languages, but it could've been that they were speaking about medical stuff, in which case it'd make sense for there to be more Arabic loanwords, and although I couldn't understand what the words meant, I could pick up that they originated from Arabic...? :hmm:
Lur wrote:Heh, it looks and sounds cute. I even find the reduced variety of consonants kind of interesting. I imagine the perceived cuteness of it is invisible to Finns.

Finnish? Cute? Sure, it has a lot of cute words, but it also has a lot of ugly words that for the most part aren't ugly in the way that makes them simultaneously cool; there are words like that too, but the majority of ugly words are just plain ugly. I also think whether it sounds absolutely cute or absolutely horrible depends on the speaker more than with a lot of languages, like the exact pronunciation of /s/ and /r/ and whatnot, probably due to the small phonemic inventory meaning the sounds that can sound cute or ugly depending on the speaker are all over the place either way. The way nouns and adjectives decline in the same way is also pretty annoying, even if it's practical and probably makes it easier to learn for foreigners.

Anyway, I've actually grown to like Finnish myself. I still dislike how its phonemic inventory is the smallest in Europe and how much it has been influenced by IE languages, but well.
Lur wrote:I've also read Finns not liking that one either, so...

I can't speak for all Finns, but my reason for not really liking Estonian in practice is that it sounds way too much like drunk Finnish and/or broken Finnish spoken by Russian immigrants who have yet to learn how vowel harmony works, etc. In theory, it's an interesting language that I should like, but... I just can't. I hate feeling that way about it because they're our closest relatives with an independent country (and AFAIK they like Finland and consider Finns their relatives, unlike Hungarians), etc. Then again, not liking a language doesn't automatically mean not liking its speakers, so yeah.

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Re: Ugliest language

Postby Lur » 2018-06-02, 10:57

Vlürch wrote:and how much it has been influenced by IE languages, but well.

I can't say I've given much thought to this beyond looking at etymologies and wondering why adjetives agree on number/case with nouns (which was actually because I still had a lot of Basque on my mind).

Would you say the degree of influence is greater than the usual among adjacent language families in the world?
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Re: Ugliest language

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-06-14, 13:11

Lur wrote:Would you say the degree of influence is greater than the usual among adjacent language families in the world?

I don't get that impression at all.

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Re: Ugliest language

Postby Vlürch » 2018-06-16, 20:29

vijayjohn wrote:
Lur wrote:Would you say the degree of influence is greater than the usual among adjacent language families in the world?

I don't get that impression at all.

Some languages have definitely been more influenced by other languages than Finnish has been by IE languages, but I don't know of any other cases where at least a third of Swadesh list words have been gradually replaced (and potentially many more, since many have unknown etymologies) and sentence structures have become more or less identical to English, a pronoun that's vaguely similar to the English definite article has been extended to be practically used as a definite article as well (at least informally, increasingly formally as well), and on top of that some likely native words with unclear etymology have come to be interpreted as certain loanwords simply for prestige.

I really wouldn't want to go on yet another rant about so-called nationalists because I don't want to get depressed tonight, but that's who can be blamed for at least like 70% of it. Most of the Indo-European influence couldn't have been entirely organic since Finns have always been pretty isolated, and although Finnish was never a prestigious language until recently (and it could be argued that it still isn't), neither was Swedish among the common people.

Considering that, I have no idea how so many seemingly ancient Germanic loanwords ended up in Finnish, and actually consider it a real possibility that they were artificially introduced by "nationalists" who just altered Swedish and German words to make them seem like they'd been borrowed into Finnish in the ancient past. I know that sounds like a conspiracy theory, but it wouldn't be any weirder than the other shit early Finnish nationalists did... :para:


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