Languages spoken in your city.

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Ciarán12
Re: Languages spoken in your city.

Postby Ciarán12 » 2018-02-26, 17:59

I would say the following (order of population speaking these languages might not be exact):

1. English (obviously)
2. Polish
3. Romanian
4. Lithuanian
5. Latvia
6. Brazilian Portuguese
7. Spanish
8. Chinese (I imagine Mandarin, but there could be some Cantonese speakers around too though I don't here them much)

From there down it's German, French, Italian, Dutch, Nordic languages, Catalan, Russian, assorted other Slavic languages, Nigerian Pidgin, Arabic, Hindustani, Japanese, other East Asian languages and.... Irish, eventually, somewhere in there Irish has to be in the list, but it's not a common occurrence to hear it used spontaneously outside of certain contexts where you might expect it.

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Re: Languages spoken in your city.

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-02-26, 18:37

Ciarán12 wrote:other East Asian languages

Does that include Southeast Asian languages, or are there seriously people over there you know of who speak Mongolian or Ryukyuan languages or something(!)?

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Re: Languages spoken in your city.

Postby Multiturquoise » 2018-02-26, 21:02

Languages spoken in Istanbul (at least those which I have heard):

Turkish (official)
English ^
Arabic ^/*
Russian ^/*
Georgian *
German ^/*
Greek ^/*
Uzbek *
Kurdish `/*
Turkmen *
Zazaki `
Persian ^
Somali *
French ^
Finnish ^
Swedish ^
Spanish ^
Italian ^
Chinese ^
Japanese ^
Korean ^

` = by Turkish citizens
^ = by tourists
* = by immigrants
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Ciarán12

Re: Languages spoken in your city.

Postby Ciarán12 » 2018-02-26, 23:38

vijayjohn wrote:Does that include Southeast Asian languages, or are there seriously people over there you know of who speak Mongolian or Ryukyuan languages or something(!)?


I was including Southeast Asian languages in that, but I have heard Mongolian here on several separate occasions actually. No Ryukyuan languages though :(

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Re: Languages spoken in your city.

Postby Vlürch » 2018-02-27, 9:55

IpseDixit wrote:
Vlürch wrote:and were known to beat and sexually abuse them


And nobody thought that maybe, just maybe, it could be a good idea to call the police?

I'm pretty sure some did, but as a general rule cops didn't do anything back then about anything even if they showed up (or they harassed the person who called them), so no one called them about anything because the likelihood of them doing anything about the problem was lesser than the likelihood of them being assholes who gave the concerned citizen shit for calling them. I mean, Roihuvuori was considered a shitty part of Helsinki up until I guess the late 2000's.

Now it's pretty much nothing like it was, partially because of how shitty it used to be; we still have more trees and whatnot than most other parts of the city, which is obviously a result of no one caring enough to build more houses until recently as no one wanted to live here. Lately a lot of trees have been getting cut down for no reason, though... I guess meaningless destruction of nature is a sign of development. Image

Besides, it's not a stereotype without a reason that Finns don't stick their nose in other people's business; most of us do all we can to stay out of trouble. Calling the police on someone is the ultimate form of nose-sticking. I don't know any statistics or anything (not that any would or even could be kept about it), but I'd bet that a lot of people who call the cops still get shit from said cops for calling them, even though these days there's only one centralised police station in Helsinki. Even if they actually do their job, everyone will know that it was you who called them because the cops will visit you, and as such no one will ever trust you again because you're officially someone who doesn't keep their nose to themselves.

Considering how up until recently the police didn't need warrants to search people's homes*, apparently often breaking everything in the process and beating up everyone involved, it shouldn't be surprising that most people don't trust them even though they no longer can do that legally. There's also usually at least one highly publicised case of corruption or drug smuggling or whatever among the police going on, so it doesn't seem like they're trustworthy even if supposedly Finns trust the police more than any other people in the EU. I take that as obvious propaganda that no one actually believes, although it could just be that the definition of trust I have in mind is different from the definition used in polls or however it was concluded that Finns trust the police... :?

*I couldn't find anything in Finnish saying they need them now, but I remember reading in some international human rights report that it was changed. No idea if that's actually true, though...

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Re: Languages spoken in your city.

Postby linguoboy » 2018-02-27, 20:41

Ciarán12 wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:Does that include Southeast Asian languages, or are there seriously people over there you know of who speak Mongolian or Ryukyuan languages or something(!)?

I was including Southeast Asian languages in that, but I have heard Mongolian here on several separate occasions actually. No Ryukyuan languages though :(

Thanks for reminding me I need to add Mongolian to my list. (I thought it was Korean at first, but I couldn't make out any words so I finally asked the speakers. They were working behind the counter in a sushi restaurant(!).)

Last night I was in line at the grocery store behind a Black African man who was carrying on a cellphone conversation. I was tempted to ask him what language it was but I checked myself.
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Ciarán12

Re: Languages spoken in your city.

Postby Ciarán12 » 2018-02-27, 21:32

linguoboy wrote:Last night I was in line at the grocery store behind a Black African man who was carrying on a cellphone conversation. I was tempted to ask him what language it was but I checked myself.


I've never actually asked someone* what language they were speaking when I didn't know (despite occasionally wanting to) - what kind of reaction do you usually get?

* to be clear, I'm talking about complete strangers, I think I have asked people who I had been introduced to if I heard them speak in another language.

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Re: Languages spoken in your city.

Postby linguoboy » 2018-02-27, 22:01

Ciarán12 wrote:I've never actually asked someone* what language they were speaking when I didn't know (despite occasionally wanting to) - what kind of reaction do you usually get?

Bemused. They're often a bit surprised someone else even noticed. And when they see that my reaction is positive, it puts them at ease. (Generally I try to signal this before even asking.)
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Re: Languages spoken in your city.

Postby Ciarán12 » 2018-02-27, 22:15

linguoboy wrote:Bemused. They're often a bit surprised someone else even noticed. And when they see that my reaction is positive, it puts them at ease. (Generally I try to signal this before even asking.)


Interesting. I'm always too self-conscious to ask. I'm always afraid they'll take it as an intrusion or even as if I'm being xenophobic and "calling them out" on speaking in a foreign language.
I remember an anecdote John McWhorter mentioned in one of his audiobooks about asking some Jamaican Patois speakers what language they were speaking and he got a negative-ish response because of the social implications of patois (for those speakers, obviously for an American linguist the implications where quite different), which has only made me more weary.

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Re: Languages spoken in your city.

Postby linguoboy » 2018-02-27, 22:37

Ciarán12 wrote:Interesting. I'm always too self-conscious to ask. I'm always afraid they'll take it as an intrusion or even as if I'm being xenophobic and "calling them out" on speaking in a foreign language.

Yeah, I worry about that, too. That's part of the reason why I didn't ask the guy in line. It's easier to do something like that with, for instance, a taxi or Uber driver, because you're not in a public place and there's an opportunity to develop a bit of a rapport.

Most of the times I can remember doing this, it was on the El (our main public transit system). There is a certain amount of semi-privacy there if, for instance, you're the only people in that section of the car (as was the case with the Malayalees and Mayans).

Ciarán12 wrote:I remember an anecdote John McWhorter mentioned in one of his audiobooks about asking some Jamaican Patois speakers what language they were speaking and he got a negative-ish response because of the social implications of patois (for those speakers, obviously for an American linguist the implications where quite different), which has only made me more weary.

Yeah, there's that dimension as well. Linguistic politics can be a minefield. Did the Nicaraguans I spoke to feel embarrassed to be identified as Mayan speakers? If so, they hid it well. (There was probably also some dumb-white-guy allowance being made there too.)
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Re: Languages spoken in your city.

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-02-28, 1:42

I rarely hear a conversation that's that interesting, especially these days. My workplace is diverse, but I kind of know all the languages spoken there already. :twisted:

I've also kind of been on the other end of this sort of thing, though - less often with language than with culture. People are afraid to ask me things sometimes. I sort of get that, and of course some curious people are also just annoying, plus cross-cultural misunderstandings crop up easily especially over the way questions are framed, but it's also often somewhat frustrating because you know I could go on about this sort of thing for hours! I remember one time, a co-worker was telling me they'd watched a movie that had come out about Ramanujan, and apparently, there's something in it (no, I still haven't seen it :P) about reluctance to travel overseas. A white co-worker of mine hesitantly asked me out of curiosity whether it was because of religious reasons. I started going into an explanation about how that seemed like an accurate assessment because crossing "the black seas" is supposed to make you lose caste and Ramanujan was a Brahmin and the horror that soldiers felt at the prospect of having to work overseas was a major issue leading to the Indian Mutiny and so on, but of course, all he wanted to know was "yes." Of course I didn't press the matter any further once he clarified that he got the information he wanted, but at the same time, my brain was like BUT I WANT TO REGURGITATE AN ESSAY ABOUT IT AHHHH GODDAMMIT WHITE PERSON!!! :lol:
Ciarán12 wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:Does that include Southeast Asian languages, or are there seriously people over there you know of who speak Mongolian or Ryukyuan languages or something(!)?


I was including Southeast Asian languages in that, but I have heard Mongolian here on several separate occasions actually. No Ryukyuan languages though :(

Oh, that's kind of like here then. :P My brother once met a Mongolian-speaker here, I'm pretty sure. One of my Japanese-language professors in college was from Okinawa, but I'm about 90% certain she told my classmates and me that she doesn't speak Okinawan.

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Re: Languages spoken in your city.

Postby Vlürch » 2018-02-28, 12:21

Ciarán12 wrote:I'm always too self-conscious to ask. I'm always afraid they'll take it as an intrusion or even as if I'm being xenophobic and "calling them out" on speaking in a foreign language.

Same.

...and how does one randomly stumble upon Mongolian-speakers? Is it just that Finland is the last country they'd want to travel to as tourists or for work or whatever for some reason so there's no chance of bumping into them here? How are there enough Mongolians in Ireland, random cities in the US, etc. for everyone to hear the language? I mean, Mongolian has literally less speakers than Finnish... :para:

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Re: Languages spoken in your city.

Postby linguoboy » 2018-02-28, 13:42

Vlürch wrote:[ow are there enough Mongolians in Ireland, random cities in the US, etc.

How adorbs.

My "random city in the US" is four times the size of Helsinki. The associated metropolitan area has nearly twice the population of your entire country. Even so, I've only knowingly heard Mongolian here once.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: Languages spoken in your city.

Postby Ciarán12 » 2018-02-28, 14:37

Vlürch wrote: How are there enough Mongolians in Ireland, random cities in the US, etc. for everyone to hear the language? I mean, Mongolian has literally less speakers than Finnish... :para:


Well, and feel free to correct my statistics if you have fresher ones, but according to Wikipedia the number of non-Finns in Finland as of 2014 was a little over 5%. In the 2016 Irish census, it was over 17%, so that might change the odds of encountering people of random nationalities in Ireland vs in Finland.
Also, I didn't mention them specifically in my first post because I don't think they have a significant population here, but it's just that I heard the language and it stood out because I was like "WTF? Is that guys speaking Mongolian?". Actually, I've only heard it twice, and that was my reavtion the second time, because the first time I knew the guy was Mongolian before he spoke because he told me so.

הענט

Re: Languages spoken in your city.

Postby הענט » 2018-02-28, 14:41

[quote="Vlürch"][quote="Ciarán12"]I'm always too self-conscious to ask. I'm always afraid they'll take it as an intrusion or even as if I'm being xenophobic and "calling them out" on speaking in a foreign language.[/quote]
Same.

...and how does one randomly stumble upon Mongolian-speakers? Is it just that Finland is the last country they'd want to travel to as tourists or for work or whatever for some reason so there's no chance of bumping into them here? How are there enough Mongolians in Ireland, random cities in the US, etc. for everyone to hear the language? I mean, Mongolian has literally less speakers than Finnish... :para:[/quote]

There are nearly 7000 Mongolians living here in the Czech Republic. I heard the language spoken at least on five occasions. Some boxers coming for the Usti Grand Prix, some kids on the bus etc. I remember a pretty girl called Narantuya who even attended the same high school and I betcha she's one of a kind with a name like that. I believe it has to do with my homeland being a former eastern block country. Go figure.

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Re: Languages spoken in your city.

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-02-28, 14:50

linguoboy wrote:
Vlürch wrote:[ow are there enough Mongolians in Ireland, random cities in the US, etc.

How adorbs.

My "random city in the US" is four times the size of Helsinki. The associated metropolitan area has nearly twice the population of your entire country. Even so, I've only knowingly heard Mongolian here once.

Although in my case I guess you'd call it 'random' then, because my city isn't 'several times the size of Helsinki' (more like 'a bit smaller than Oulu' :D ) but I know a Mongolian family here. The Kazakh speaker I knew was an exchange student at my school though.
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Re: Languages spoken in your city.

Postby Ciarán12 » 2018-02-28, 16:27

Linguaphile wrote:Although in my case I guess you'd call it 'random' then, because my city isn't 'several times the size of Helsinki' (more like 'a bit smaller than Oulu' :D )


I think comparing settlement population sizes to Finnish cities should become a thing. Dublin is about half an Oulu away from a full Helsinki I think.

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Re: Languages spoken in your city.

Postby linguoboy » 2018-02-28, 16:30

Ciarán12 wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:Although in my case I guess you'd call it 'random' then, because my city isn't 'several times the size of Helsinki' (more like 'a bit smaller than Oulu' :D )

I think comparing settlement population sizes to Finnish cities should become a thing. Dublin is about half an Oulu away from a full Helsinki I think.

I feel the same is true, mutatis mutandis, of many Dubliners.
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Re: Languages spoken in your city.

Postby Ciarán12 » 2018-02-28, 16:45

linguoboy wrote:I feel the same is true, mutatis mutandis, of many Dubliners.


That we're half an Oulo-ite away from a full Helsinkian?

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Re: Languages spoken in your city.

Postby linguoboy » 2018-02-28, 16:49

Ciarán12 wrote:
linguoboy wrote:I feel the same is true, mutatis mutandis, of many Dubliners.

That we're half an Oulo-ite away from a full Helsinkian?

Maybe even a full Turkuer!
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