Random language thread 6

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Osias
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Osias » 2022-06-06, 1:27

dEhiN wrote:I was reading this article recently from Atlas Obscura titled "Meet the Mother-Son Duo Translating Astrophysics Into Blackfoot". I was really neat to read, and I remember the specific event in question referenced in the article. Basically, when gravity waves were first detected by LIGO, one of the languages the press release was translated into was Blackfoot. One of the researchers is Blackfoot and he suggested the idea of having the press release translated into his language. His mother was the one who did the translating, and the article goes into how she tackled concepts where there wasn't a native Blackfoot word for it. It's a very fascinating read.

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Karavinka » 2022-07-29, 13:34

Osias wrote:Thanks everyone for the comments.

I also think we should rename the language to Brazilian unironically. But I don't believe that will ever happen.


http://www.yes24.com/Product/Goods/5261997

This book's title literally says: "Talk out of your mouth: Brazilian." Below it says "First steps in conversational Brazilian (Portuguese)"

I still think "브라질 포르투갈어(Brazilian Portuguese)" is more common in Korean, but "브라질어(Brazilian language)" is not rare either.

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Osias » 2022-07-30, 17:36

What's "Talk out of your mouth"? :hmm:
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby linguoboy » 2022-08-01, 16:17

Osias wrote:What's "Talk out of your mouth"? :hmm:

Looks like the name of a language learning series, similar to Hodder & Stoughton's "Teach Yourself" or Routledge's "Colloquial". The phrase itself is an interesting mashup of native Korean (입에서 /ip eyse/ "mouth from") and English (톡 /thok/ < "talk"). I'm not sure what the connotations are of using a modewort like 톡 in place of a native Korean word such as 이야기 /i.ya.ki/.
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby dEhiN » 2022-08-02, 7:26

Hey all, I thought this might be interesting to some of you. I posted on r/Anki about how I've been using Anki this year, starting after a multi-year hiatus. The post is a little long, but I go through how I've structured things and how I feel like I've stepped up my Anki game! :D Currently, I'm taking a conversational French course at my local college, but apart from that, Anki is probably my only intentional language study. Anyway, here's the link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Anki/comments/ ... urce=share
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Karavinka » 2022-08-07, 8:29

linguoboy wrote:
Osias wrote:What's "Talk out of your mouth"? :hmm:

Looks like the name of a language learning series, similar to Hodder & Stoughton's "Teach Yourself" or Routledge's "Colloquial". The phrase itself is an interesting mashup of native Korean (입에서 /ip eyse/ "mouth from") and English (톡 /thok/ < "talk"). I'm not sure what the connotations are of using a modewort like 톡 in place of a native Korean word such as 이야기 /i.ya.ki/.


In this case 말 would be more natural, 이야기 is more like a story. As in speak vs tell in English.

It's likely to be a pun between English _talk_ and the onomatopoeic word 톡, which means protruding or bulging. Not to say that talk and talking (톡/토크 and 토킹) are completely acceptable loanwords.

Karavinka

Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Karavinka » 2022-08-07, 9:37

dEhiN wrote:Hey all, I thought this might be interesting to some of you. I posted on r/Anki about how I've been using Anki this year, starting after a multi-year hiatus. The post is a little long, but I go through how I've structured things and how I feel like I've stepped up my Anki game! :D Currently, I'm taking a conversational French course at my local college, but apart from that, Anki is probably my only intentional language study. Anyway, here's the link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Anki/comments/ ... urce=share


One question that pops up my mind: Do you study the macro deck (Active and Inactive at once) or do you study individual decks at a time? Because afaik studying the macro deck will show cards from all subdecks randomly.

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby dEhiN » 2022-08-13, 13:52

Karavinka wrote:One question that pops up my mind: Do you study the macro deck (Active and Inactive at once) or do you study individual decks at a time? Because afaik studying the macro deck will show cards from all subdecks randomly.

Most of the time, I choose the macro deck. Inactive is for cards and language decks I'm not working on, so I don't touch that. As for the way a deck shows cards from child decks, you can now specify the ordering in deck options. I think I've left it at random and to mix learning and review cards, but to do new ones after the other two. Sometimes, though, I might do one child deck at a time.

By the way, you need a preposition between "pops up" and "my mind". For me, the most natural sounding one would be "in", though "to" could also work. Also, there's an idiomatic expression "come to mind" which, in my experience, is more commonly used than "pops up in/to my mind". The funny thing is, when I read your post, I read the first sentence as "One question that comes to mind"! :D
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Linguaphile » 2022-10-02, 14:08

I was pleasantly surprised to see that AdSense or whatever Google is currently using gave me an ad in Hmong today:
Image
It's a reminder to test for covid before and after traveling out of the country or attending large gatherings. I think it's the first time I've gotten a Hmong AdSense ad before, despite having quite a bit of Hmong in my search history. It's nice to see that it does have some ads in Hmong (or, at least, this one).

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Linguaphile » 2023-01-14, 17:07

Podcast: When language translations go wrong

Article: FEMA sent ‘unintelligible’ disaster relief application information to Alaska Natives impacted by Typhoon Merbok

Article: Company to refund FEMA for botched Yup’ik and Iñupiaq translations

Article: FEMA Fires Group for Nonsensical Alaska Native Translations

From the above four sources:

Yup'ik and Iñupiaq translations of FEMA [Federal Emergency Management Agency] documents were meant to help people in the Bering Strait Region who were impacted by Typhoon Merbok.

"Whoever created the Yup’ik translations just lifted full phrases from a compilation of language and folklore from Far East Russia known as the Rubtsova texts. It was published in the Soviet Union in the 1940s."

"They clearly just grabbed the words from the document and then just put them in some random order and gave something that looked like Yup’ik but made no sense."

"These are people’s grandparents and great-grandparents that are knowledge-keepers, are elders, and their words which they put down, expecting people to learn from, expecting people to appreciate, have just been bastardized."

"Where FEMA’s news release says 'State News Desk,' the translated version reads, 'when she said so, the dog ran farther off from the curtain.' In another section of the same document, what should be a translation of information about the Small Business Administration reads, 'that one said that I should draw a line on the ice when he gets close.'"

"'Tomorrow he will go hunting very early, and will (bring) nothing,' read one passage. The translator randomly added the word 'Alaska' in the middle of the sentence. 'Your husband is a polar bear, skinny,' another said."

"The Iñupiaq translations were written in the Inuktitut alphabet.... and from what I am told by Inuktitut speakers, those translations are not even words."

"The mistake should have been an easy catch because the Inuktitut alphabet is made up of syllabic characters, unlike Iñupiaq where many of the letters are identical to the Latin alphabet."

"I mean, we're talking about extremely remote places in Alaska, where in some place you have a case of diapers that costs ninety-nine dollars, so twenty-seven thousand [dollars] may be the tip of the iceberg to use an Alaska analogy, which is precisely why Congress needs to look into this... twenty-seven thousand may not mean a lot to people in Washington DC but I guarantee you it means a lot to the folks in the Calista region and up in the northern regions of Alaska where it's extremely difficult to access goods and services."

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby razlem » 2023-01-31, 6:24

I just found out that Slovak has a rhythm rule, in that two long syllables cannot occur consecutively, that the second one must be made short. This is exactly the opposite with Choctaw,'s rhythmic lengthening, which does not allow two *short* syllables to occur consecutively, the second one being made long.

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby mōdgethanc » 2023-02-06, 4:12

There's a rule in Tiberian Hebrew (vowel length was phonemic in Biblical Hebrew, this is the period after it) where stressed vowels are always long, and the pretonic vowel is also long if it's an open syllable. Any syllable before the penult will have a short vowel, unless it has secondary stress. I have no idea why this is a rule or what the phonological basis for it is.
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby mōdgethanc » 2023-02-10, 13:19

Got a question wrong in Duolingo while trying to go back to Polish. The audio said something I heard as /spudɨˈɲitsa/, so I wrote "spudynica". The word was spódnica which is /spudˈɲitsa/. I heard the release of the /d/ as a vowel because in English it would be unreleased, and then also <ó> sounds the same as <u>.
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Car » 2023-03-16, 17:16

Tartu University's machine translation engine now translates 23 Finno-Ugric languages

As I unfortunately don't speak any of the languages, I can't judge how good the translations are, but it's certainly good for those smaller languages to be supported like that.
Please correct my mistakes!

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Linguaphile » 2023-03-17, 3:59

Car wrote:Tartu University's machine translation engine now translates 23 Finno-Ugric languages

As I unfortunately don't speak any of the languages, I can't judge how good the translations are, but it's certainly good for those smaller languages to be supported like that.

There are glitches. I tried translating into Skolt Saami from English and from Estonian and in both cases it produced Finnish instead. I suppose their database for Skolt Saami simply isn't large enough (yet?) and it seems to decide that Finnish makes a good substitute.
Võro to Estonian translates pretty well, Võro to English less so. Translating between the other Finno-Ugric languages and Estonian seems to work a lot better than translating between the Finno-Ugric languages and English, but that makes sense - machine translations tend to do better with languages that are related to each other than with languages that aren't.
They have this disclaimer on the site: "we caution you to not take the translations as the whole truth and just invite you to feel the joy of testing out the model and studying its behavior." No machine translation can be perfect and this one definitely adds something useful and fun to the resources out there for the smaller languages. So, feel the joy! Honestly, despite my criticisms, I'm excited about it. And they are working on improving it.

I couldn't resist trying to translate the song below, though, simply because it's well-known in Estonia and Google Translate used to botch it famously poorly - I'm sorry to say that Neurotõlge doesn't do as well as Google Translate now, although both translate it far better than the silly mess Google used to make of it.

Google Translate 2009
Image
Ice-free, for the sea, '
Ice-free, for the surface!
Belisle and the storm
Estonia is not afraid of boobs.

Google Translate 2023
Image
Stay free, Estonian sea,
Stay free, Estonian land!
Then blizzard or storm
Estonia is not afraid.

Neurotõlge
Image
Stay free, Estonian sea,
Stay free, Estonian surface!
Then neither the thunder nor the storm
Is afraid of the Estonian chest.

A correct translation would be more like:
Stay free, Estonian sea,
stay free, Estonian land!
Then come blizzard or storm
Estonia will not fear.

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Car » 2023-03-17, 12:07

Thank you for your thorough reply! Much appreciated.
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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby awrui » 2023-03-17, 14:54

Image

:hmm:
I guess this is why my socks always disappear from my washing machine?

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Linguaphile » 2023-03-17, 19:57

awrui wrote:Image

:hmm:
I guess this is why my socks always disappear from my washing machine?

The mystery is finally solved! I always knew my washing machine liked to eat clothes.
:rotfl:

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby Saim » 2023-03-19, 10:55

mōdgethanc wrote:Got a question wrong in Duolingo while trying to go back to Polish. The audio said something I heard as /spudɨˈɲitsa/, so I wrote "spudynica". The word was spódnica which is /spudˈɲitsa/. I heard the release of the /d/ as a vowel because in English it would be unreleased, and then also <ó> sounds the same as <u>.


It would be unreleased in Serbian too. Polish just loves insisting on those consonants.

Another thing I find funny about Polish is that geminates are also generally pronounced as two consonants rather than as a long consonant. I don’t believe I’ve heard this in any other language. I remember an Italian I met who had learnt a fair bit of Polish was like “why do Poles pronounce tt and mm as t-t and m-m?”

On a related note, I remember people would always get my address wrong when I lived at Sczaniecka ulica and would assimilate it to “Szczaniecka”. I didn’t even know the series -scz- was humanly possible to articulate at the time; Serbian only allows -šć- (which becomes -šč- in parts of Croatia). :lol:

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Re: Random language thread 6

Postby awrui » 2023-03-19, 15:41

Linguaphile wrote:The mystery is finally solved! I always knew my washing machine liked to eat clothes.
:rotfl:

It's called machine translation because it's translated by washing machines :yep:


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