Idiomatic Phrases

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Re: Idiomatic Phrases

Postby linguoboy » 2021-05-08, 22:43

Linguaphile wrote:
Rí.na.dTeangacha wrote:It reminded my of one of the terms for "convince" in Irish which is also very odd when translated literally;
(ga) rud a chur ina luí ar dhuine
to put something in its *lying on someone

*That's lying as in lying down, not not telling the truth (which would make more logical sense in many ways...)
Interesting! Maybe like it's just lying there now, not going anywhere - if you truly convince someone, the thing that you've convinced them of is there to stay. :?:

Luí is also used to mean an amount of material weighing down on something, e.g. Tá luí na bhfód air "There is the lying of the sod on him" = "He's six feet under". So I think the metaphor might be that you're burying them under the weight of your arguments.
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Re: Idiomatic Phrases

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-07-16, 21:13

(et) suure surmaga
with great death
with great difficulty, with great trouble

(fi) (ei) suurin surminkaan
not even with great deaths
would absolutely never (do something), would absolutely never dare to (do something)

Does anyone know of other languages using an expression meaning "with great death(s)" with either of these two meanings? I'm wondering either of them is a borrowing (calque) from somewhere, or not.

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Re: Idiomatic Phrases

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-08-29, 0:21

(es) pagar los platos rotos
to pay for the broken plates
to take the fall (take the blame for the actions of others or of a group)

(es) dar palos de ciego
to hit [with a cane] like a blind person
to take a shot/stab in the dark, to fly blind, to act without thinking

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Re: Idiomatic Phrases

Postby Rí.na.dTeangacha » 2021-09-28, 14:30

(pt-br) passar o pano para alguém
to pass the rag/cloth for someone
to cover up for someone

(pt-br) limpar a barra de alguém
clean the bar of someone (clean up for someone)
to make excuses for someone, to try to protect someone's image

(pt-br) é tudo farinha do mesmo saco
it's all flour from the same bag
it's all the same, there is no (appreciable) difference
Last edited by Rí.na.dTeangacha on 2021-12-29, 13:07, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Idiomatic Phrases

Postby vijayjohn » 2021-10-01, 22:37

Malayalam (ml) തലേൽ കയറുക [t̪əˈleːl ˈkeːruga] - to get on someone's nerves (literally 'to climb on head')
Mandarin Chinese (zh) 密密麻麻 mìmìmámá - densely packed; dense and numerous (literally something like 'close close tingling tingling'?)
Last edited by vijayjohn on 2022-01-13, 23:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Idiomatic Phrases

Postby nijk » 2021-11-30, 9:08

Rí.na.dTeangacha wrote:(pt-br) tá tudo farinha do mesmo saco
it's all flour from the same bag
to all the same, there is no (appreciable) difference


In Italian we say non è farina del tuo sacco (it's not flour from your bag) meaning "you stole that idea from someone else"

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Re: Idiomatic Phrases

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-11-30, 14:29

nijk wrote:
Rí.na.dTeangacha wrote:(pt-br) tá tudo farinha do mesmo saco
it's all flour from the same bag
to all the same, there is no (appreciable) difference


In Italian we say non è farina del tuo sacco (it's not flour from your bag) meaning "you stole that idea from someone else"

(es) ser harina de otro costal
to be flour from another bag
to be a whole other thing, to be a whole other ballgame, to be a completely different matter


(unrelated to the above, just adding a new one):
(es) (re)mover Roma con Santiago
to move Rome with Santiago
to leave no stone unturned, to pull out all the stops, to do everything possible

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Re: Idiomatic Phrases

Postby Rí.na.dTeangacha » 2021-11-30, 15:08

Linguaphile wrote:(es) ser harina de otro costal
to be flour from another bag
to be a whole other thing, to be a whole other ballgame, to be a completely different matter


Interesting, it's making the same exact analogy as the Portuguese phrase, but making the reverse point. Is there an opposite phrase like "ser harina del mismo costal" or some such like in Portuguese, do you know?
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Re: Idiomatic Phrases

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-11-30, 16:03

Rí.na.dTeangacha wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:(es) ser harina de otro costal
to be flour from another bag
to be a whole other thing, to be a whole other ballgame, to be a completely different matter


Interesting, it's making the same exact analogy as the Portuguese phrase, but making the reverse point. Is there an opposite phrase like "ser harina del mismo costal" or some such like in Portuguese, do you know?

My impression is that you can say it and you'll be understood, but it's not commonly used. I haven't heard it used that way personally and if it's an idiom, I think it's much less common. I googled it and found this site which claims "harina del mismo costal" means "a chip off the old block", but this book claims that "harina de otro costal" is the only idiom and that changing it to "harina del mismo costal" would be "interpreted humorously, since the assumption would be the speaker or writer has deliberately modified the idiom for stylistic effect".
Edit: here's a great discussion on WordReference in Spanish initiated by someone asking (in Spanish) about the Portuguese phrase.

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Re: Idiomatic Phrases

Postby Rí.na.dTeangacha » 2021-11-30, 16:30

Interesting, ¡muchas gracias!
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Re: Idiomatic Phrases

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-11-30, 18:52

(es) poner la(s) mano(s) en el fuego (por alguien)
to put one's hand(s) in the fire (for someone)
to fully trust (someone)

In light of the above discussion I'll also mentinon that it is also often used in the negative, i.e.
(es) No pondría las manos en el fuego por él
I wouldn't put my hands in the fire for him
I don't trust him

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Re: Idiomatic Phrases

Postby Car » 2021-11-30, 19:14

Linguaphile wrote:(es) poner la(s) mano(s) en el fuego (por alguien)
to put one's hand(s) in the fire (for someone)
to fully trust (someone)

German has

(de) für jdn/etw seine [o. die] Hand ins Feuer legen
to put one's/ the hand into the fire
to vouch for sb/sth

And it also is used in the negative a lot.
Please correct my mistakes!

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Re: Idiomatic Phrases

Postby linguoboy » 2021-11-30, 23:06

Since we're putting things in the fire now, Catalan has:
(ca) tirar el barret/la gorra al foc
to throw one's hat/cap into the fire
to lose patience with and give up
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Re: Idiomatic Phrases

Postby vijayjohn » 2021-12-01, 0:10

All y'all just use putting hands in a fire as an expression. Meanwhile, we have a story about someone actually doing that around the turn of the 19th/20th century! :P

The story is that Shirdi Sai Baba lived in a mosque but kept a Hindu sacrificial(?) fire in it. One day, he deliberately stuck his arm into the fire and burned it. The next day, a blacksmith thanked him for saving his baby daughter who accidentally rolled into the fire while he was working at the kiln but escaped unhurt.

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Re: Idiomatic Phrases

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-12-01, 1:50

So since we're on that topic, I hadn't realized Estonian has more or less the same expression:

(et) kätte tulle pistma
to stick one's hand into the fire
to fully trust someone, to be completely certain about someone

On the same theme there's also:
(et) pead tulle pistma
(vro) pää tullõ tsuskama
(vot) päät tullõõsõõ pissää
to stick one's head into the fire
to take unnecessary risks, to act recklessly

This can also be used in the context of doing something for others, i.e.
(et) tema pärast ma ei pista tulle oma pead
(vro) timä peräst ma tsuska-iq tullõ uma pää
(vot) en miä tämmää tähhee pisä õmmaa päät tullõõsõõ
I won't stick my head in the fire for him
I won't take unnecessary risks for him

(et) kastaneid tulest välja tooma
to take chestnuts out of the fire
to take a risk for others, to do something dangerous or unpleasant for others

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Re: Idiomatic Phrases

Postby Dormouse559 » 2021-12-01, 7:49

To turn to firearms, here's one I learned the other day:

(fr) changer son fusil d'épaule
to switch one's gun to the other shoulder
to change one's mind; to change tack; to change one's strategy

The French expression is a lot quicker than the literal English translation.
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Re: Idiomatic Phrases

Postby Naava » 2021-12-01, 10:53

Linguaphile wrote:
nijk wrote:
Rí.na.dTeangacha wrote:(pt-br) tá tudo farinha do mesmo saco
it's all flour from the same bag
to all the same, there is no (appreciable) difference


In Italian we say non è farina del tuo sacco (it's not flour from your bag) meaning "you stole that idea from someone else"

(es) ser harina de otro costal
to be flour from another bag
to be a whole other thing, to be a whole other ballgame, to be a completely different matter

If I may go back to flours for a moment, Finnish has olla puhtaat jauhot pussissa (to have clean flours in the bag). I think it's more common in negative sense (someone doesn't have clean flours in the bag), and it's used when you suspect someone is doing or planning to do something shady.

About fire:
(fi) tulistua (to get fiery) - to get angry
(fi) jäädä tuleen makaamaan (to stay/keep lying in the fire) - this is a quote from a famous Finnish book Unkown soldier. In its original context, it was a reminder and a warning to soldiers that they should not lie still in enemy fire but advance. Nowadays it's used (often in the negative) to mean that you should not freeze and give up even if the situation doesn't look good.

nijk

Re: Idiomatic Phrases

Postby nijk » 2021-12-01, 11:00

Linguaphile wrote:(es) No pondría las manos en el fuego por él
I wouldn't put my hands in the fire for him
I don't trust him


Pretty sure it comes from the Roman myth of Gaius Mucius Scaevola

Also Italian has (it) metterci la mano sul fuoco - to be very sure about something

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Re: Idiomatic Phrases

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-12-01, 14:19

Naava wrote:If I may go back to flours for a moment

:mrgreen: For some reason, that line makes me laugh.

Naava wrote:Finnish has olla puhtaat jauhot pussissa (to have clean flours in the bag). I think it's more common in negative sense (someone doesn't have clean flours in the bag), and it's used when you suspect someone is doing or planning to do something shady.

Interesting! I looked to see if Estonian has something similar, and all I found was this in a newspaper from Australia, where it says it's a Swedish saying: "Teie vaikimisel tuleb meil paratamatult tunnustada rootsi vanasõna: neil ei ole vist puhas jahu kotis" and an amusingly machine-translated page, apparently originally Danish, suggesting that Google perhaps doesn't have its clean flour in a bag: "Programmeerijad ja teised eksperdid saavad jälgida õmblustes olevat koodi ja leida turvaauke ning paljastada, kas Google'il pole kotis puhast jahu."

nijk wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:(es) No pondría las manos en el fuego por él
I wouldn't put my hands in the fire for him
I don't trust him


Pretty sure it comes from the Roman myth of Gaius Mucius Scaevola

Also Italian has (it) metterci la mano sul fuoco - to be very sure about something

Thank you! I wondered where it came from.

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Re: Idiomatic Phrases

Postby Car » 2021-12-01, 19:03

Linguaphile wrote:(et) kastaneid tulest välja tooma
to take chestnuts out of the fire
to take a risk for others, to do something dangerous or unpleasant for others


That also exists in German:
(de) die Kastanien aus dem Feuer holen
to take the chestnusts out of the fire
Please correct my mistakes!


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