Random language thread 5

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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby księżycowy » 2018-09-13, 12:09

Lur wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
Lur wrote:I have to say, while "learn one character set" seems okay, "learn two (potentially three with Japanese) characters sets used differently in different languages" does sound daunting as hell. :lol:

It's not really as bad as it sounds. But really, it depends what you're doing it for. Do you just want to learn a couple hundred characters which show up frequently in art, tattoos, and people's names? That's very doable. Do you actually want to read multiple East Asian languages? That's a very daunting task for reasons quite apart from the character sets in use.

It's more like I have difficulty picking one. :para:

I'll pick for you: Japanese. :twisted:

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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby Lur » 2018-09-13, 14:17

księżycowy wrote:I'll pick for you: Japanese. :twisted:

I'm pretty sure that if I follow unilangers' suggestions I'll have to do all of them. :lol:
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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby księżycowy » 2018-09-13, 14:19

Well, we already have a Japanese study group, and the Japanese subforum is in need of more activity. Plus I'm not just any Unilanger!

I resemble that remark! :hmpf:

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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby linguoboy » 2018-09-13, 16:19

TIL there are people who say "in lieu of" to mean "in light of". I guess everything sounds fancier in French?
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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby Yasna » 2018-09-13, 22:30

"Die Zwille (auch Zwackel, Zwuschel, Flitsche, Fletsche, Zwistel, Zwiesel, Katapult, Kartzi, Katschi, Schlatsche, Kreuzbergschleuder, Spatzenschießer, Zwockel, Gambel, Schlatte, Steinschleuder oder einfach Schleuder[1])" :shock:
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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby Yasna » 2018-09-13, 22:36

OldBoring wrote:
Yasna wrote:Fun fact: The syllable gyeong (경) present in the name of three traditional Korean provinces (Gyeonggi [畿], Gyeongsang [尙], and Hamgyeong [咸]) represents a different morpheme in each name.

What???? Salty Mirror?

"In 1509, it was renamed Hamgyong after its two principal cities, Hamhung (함흥, 咸興, Hamhŭng, "Complete Success") and Kyongsong (경성, 鏡城, Kyŏngsŏng, "Mirror," "Clear," or "Perceptive City")." - Wikipedia
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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby Osias » 2018-09-14, 13:19

linguoboy wrote:TIL there are people who say "in lieu of" to mean "in light of". I guess everything sounds fancier in French?

You're kidding? French is the fancy language.
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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby linguoboy » 2018-09-14, 14:46

Yasna wrote:
OldBoring wrote:
Yasna wrote:Fun fact: The syllable gyeong (경) present in the name of three traditional Korean provinces (Gyeonggi [畿], Gyeongsang [尙], and Hamgyeong [咸]) represents a different morpheme in each name.

What???? Salty Mirror?

"In 1509, it was renamed Hamgyong after its two principal cities, Hamhung (함흥, 咸興, Hamhŭng, "Complete Success") and Kyongsong (경성, 鏡城, Kyŏngsŏng, "Mirror," "Clear," or "Perceptive City")." - Wikipedia

I'm not sure whether Old Boring was doing this on the sly or not, but he pointed up exactly the kind of confusion which comes from "simplifying" a traditional character (鹹) by replacing it with a "related" character (咸) that's now "obsolete" .
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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby Aurinĭa » 2018-09-14, 16:19

linguoboy wrote:TIL there are people who say "in lieu of" to mean "in light of". I guess everything sounds fancier in French?

I know it can be used for "in place of", but I think it just sounds silly.

Osias wrote:You're kidding? French is the fancy language.

French can be very un-fancy. And it's not the 18th century anymore.

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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby Dormouse559 » 2018-09-14, 16:50

It's a bit cliché, but after my rendezvous at a café with a petite girl sporting an ombre coif, I realized I'd forgotten to RSVP to my sister and her fiancé's wedding, so she'd have to make do with a bouquet of flowers in lieu of my presence, which I found rather apropos.

Aurinĭa wrote:I know it can be used for "in place of", but I think it just sounds silly.

I rather like it. As an English speaker, I'm used to having at least three vocabulary choices for everything. Also, since my dialect is yod-dropping, "lieu" and "loo" are homophones, which gives me a little childish joy.
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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby Osias » 2018-09-14, 17:56

Aurinĭa wrote:French can be very un-fancy. And it's not the 18th century anymore.

It's not the speakers that decide that. It's the rest of the world that consider it the most beautiful and romantic etc as of today.
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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby dEhiN » 2018-09-16, 20:07

linguoboy wrote:TIL there are people who say "in lieu of" to mean "in light of". I guess everything sounds fancier in French?

Example?
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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby JackFrost » 2018-09-16, 21:40

dEhiN wrote:
linguoboy wrote:TIL there are people who say "in lieu of" to mean "in light of". I guess everything sounds fancier in French?

Example?

Clearly, "l'esprit de l'escalier".

I am not serious.
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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby dEhiN » 2018-09-16, 21:46

JackFrost wrote:
dEhiN wrote:
linguoboy wrote:TIL there are people who say "in lieu of" to mean "in light of". I guess everything sounds fancier in French?

Example?

Clearly, "l'esprit de l'escalier".

I confess, I don't quite get the joke. Is that an idiom? (I get the literal translation, but not the meaning/significance).
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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby Yasna » 2018-09-19, 0:38

"The problem with all language learning is that it rots the critical faculty: the language is always right, and you are always wrong."

A startling comment from Language Log
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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby dEhiN » 2018-09-19, 18:24

Yasna wrote:"The problem with all language learning is that it rots the critical faculty: the language is always right, and you are always wrong."

A startling comment from Language Log

It sounds to me like someone who can't stand being wrong or corrected! :D If anything, I would say that language learning improves the critical faculty - forcing you to critically evaluate what you want to get across, how to correctly say it, etc.
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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby linguoboy » 2018-09-19, 19:09

I was like, "Which Language Logger said that?" And the answer is, "None of them." It's in a comment from some commentator I don't recall seeing before (apparently a professor of Chinese at UMass).
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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby dEhiN » 2018-09-19, 19:22

Then I'm even more surprised by that comment, if the commentator is a professor of Chinese!
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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby linguoboy » 2018-09-19, 19:37

I get what he's saying. After all, I'm constantly dealing with learners making false generalisations. I've had people actually tell me, "In English, it should be this" about constructions which are barely attested even among non-natives. Well, no, not if that's not what we actually say, no it "shouldn't".

The thread in Language Log is about Literary Chinese, which is particularly tricky to study and teach because there was never any codified grammar of it, as there was for other languages like Sanskrit. You were just supposed to pick it up from reading the Chinese Classics. You can try to make your own generalisations, but if something attested in one of these texts contradicts it, then it's right and you're wrong.
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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby dEhiN » 2018-09-19, 19:49

linguoboy wrote:The thread in Language Log is about Literary Chinese, which is particularly tricky to study and teach because there was never any codified grammar of it, as there was for other languages like Sanskrit. You were just supposed to pick it up from reading the Chinese Classics. You can try to make your own generalisations, but if something attested in one of these texts contradicts it, then it's right and you're wrong.

Then the comment makes sense; it sounds like Literary Chinese would be tricky to study. However, the generalisation of the comment to all language learning is something I still don't quite agree with.
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