Random language thread 5

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Osias
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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby Osias » 2017-10-12, 13:35

Karavinka wrote:Japanese adjective-verb samui (be cold) has a corresponding noun samusa (coldness), but abunai (be dangerous) has kiken (danger), not *abunasa which isn't even a word.

I thought such inconsistencies were just normal things that happen in natural languages.

Yes, my puzzlement is happening to Catalan - for an important word for poetry and all - while remaining unchanged in neighbor/sister languages they had contact all the time.
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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby linguoboy » 2017-10-12, 14:49

Dormouse559 wrote:
linguoboy wrote:Even stranger: in English, the verb for comprar is "to buy" but the noun is "purchase".
That's a great buy. But I'll admit "buy" only covers the "thing which is purchased" meaning

And not even that, at least IMD:

*They showed me their buys.
*She put the new buy in the same bag as the others.
*I live on land that was part of the Louisiana Buy.
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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby linguoboy » 2017-10-12, 15:02

Osias wrote:Yes, my puzzlement is happening to Catalan - for an important word for poetry and all - while remaining unchanged in neighbor/sister languages they had contact all the time.

Except that it hasn't. Aimer has a wide range in contemporary French, meaning everything from "love passionately" to "enjoy" (e.g. "J'aime manger du poisson"). Aimer bien looks like it should mean "love a lot" but really it's "be fond of"; if I tell you "Je t'aime bien", the definite implication is I don't consider you boyfriend material.

Meanwhile in Spanish, most speakers consider amar too formal for ordinary use. The everyday word is querer and you might querer someone for years before you feel comfortable saying te amo to them. Really, this isn't so different from Catalan, where amar exists but is chiefly poetic.
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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby Osias » 2017-10-12, 15:19

Thanks!

Come to think about, in Brazil people tend to exaggeration and to say 'amar' for everything. Like 'wow, I love this ice cream', but hardly will talk about this as 'amor'.
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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby linguoboy » 2017-10-12, 16:12

Osias wrote:Come to think about, in Brazil people tend to exaggeration and to say 'amar' for everything. Like 'wow, I love this ice cream', but hardly will talk about this as 'amor'.

In grade school, we had one grumpy old teacher who scolded us for using "love" with inanimates. She was like, "You can't 'love' ice cream!" But it was a losing battle even back then.

My late husband and I said "I love you" a lot, but the word we shared for really intimate moments was "cherish". It has a different range of connotation than "love" and one we thought was more descriptive of our relationship.
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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby Dormouse559 » 2017-10-12, 16:22

linguoboy wrote:And not even that, at least IMD:

*They showed me their buys.
*She put the new buy in the same bag as the others.
*I live on land that was part of the Louisiana Buy.

The first two are valid for me, actually. I call shenanigans on the third one. Fixed phrases don't count.
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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-10-13, 4:05

Somebody's arguing with me and swearing up and down that most of the varieties of Arabic are mutually intelligible. They claim to know they're mutually intelligible from having been to a lot of countries including Arab countries. :?
OldBoring wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:You guys.

*Y'all.

Would you believe I was actually trying to figure out how to phrase the beginning of the post and then ended up picking exactly the option I was struggling to avoid? :lol:

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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby dEhiN » 2017-10-14, 17:41

vijayjohn wrote:Somebody's arguing with me and swearing up and down that most of the varieties of Arabic are mutually intelligible. They claim to know they're mutually intelligible from having been to a lot of countries including Arab countries. :?

On the (loosely-affiliated-with-Unilang) Whatsapp group, someone said how they met this person who learned Arabic and is now learning Romanian, and claimed that Romanian is a lot harder to learn than Arabic! :shock: :rotfl:
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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-10-14, 18:16

Eh, I can kind of see that happening. "Which language is easier" is a pretty arbitrary thing anyway. Hell, I've probably made more progress with Arabic now than I've ever made with Romanian (I don't even have Romanian on my profile...I wonder how many stars I could give it at this point. One? Two?). There's probably more interest in Arabic these days, too. What variety/ies of Arabic were they studying, do you know?

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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby dEhiN » 2017-10-14, 18:45

vijayjohn wrote:Eh, I can kind of see that happening. "Which language is easier" is a pretty arbitrary thing anyway. Hell, I've probably made more progress with Arabic now than I've ever made with Romanian (I don't even have Romanian on my profile...I wonder how many stars I could give it at this point. One? Two?). There's probably more interest in Arabic these days, too. What variety/ies of Arabic were they studying, do you know?

No I don't know. And yeah I guess the difficulty of learning something is subjective, but still, it seems to me like the grammar of Arabic is a lot more complicated than Romanian. Granted I've not really studied either, though I have very cursorily looked at Romanian over the past few years. But both Meera and Marcelo (who I think goes by Covered on this forum) were surprised by this statement. And just from the stuff I've seen learners of Arabic post on here as well as the Whatsapp group, Arabic seems to be a lot more complicated than I could ever imagine Romanian being. That's not to say someone couldn't find certain grammatical aspects of Romanian pretty tough, but still, if you've learned Arabic first, would you really find Romanian that much more difficult?!
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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-10-14, 19:18

Sure, you could. We don't know this person who was learning Arabic and Romanian, so for all we know, he could have just learned a little bit of each, no? (Kind of like I did before I started delving into Syrian Arabic). Yeah, MSA at least is hard to learn especially with all the plurals and roots and everything, but you don't necessarily encounter all those things even in MSA if you're just starting out; it requires getting into the language pretty deeply. Going through Mastering Arabic for example is not all that hard (although of course you won't learn much from it without trying pretty hard - it's easy to forget to (try to) learn all the vocab).

By contrast, I've never managed to go through TY Romanian (maybe I could now, but I'm not learning it now), though I have tried to use it to learn Romanian. If someone was starting with something like that, I can easily see getting overwhelmed by all the laundry lists of vocabulary that they have at the beginning of every goddamn chapter, especially combined with the fact that a) it's not clear that all the vocabulary is ever used anywhere in the book, let alone in the dialog for the relevant chapter, b) there's no reason why you'd necessarily need all that vocabulary in practice (though this is probably true of most language-learning resources), and c) they don't even give you all the vocabulary you need to understand the dialogs sometimes and seem to be especially bad about explaining language-specific idiomatic expressions.

So yeah, it can happen.

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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby Serafín » 2017-10-15, 21:23

I need to git gud at all of French, Mandarin and Arabic ASAP. I suddenly have a somewhat real need to know them.

Well, not quite ASAP, but I need to improve as much as I can by June next year...

I might even give Anki another try to shove as much Mandarin/Arabic vocab into my brain as I can.

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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby dEhiN » 2017-10-16, 3:09

Serafín wrote:I need to git gud at all of French, Mandarin and Arabic ASAP. I suddenly have a somewhat real need to know them.

Well, not quite ASAP, but I need to improve as much as I can by June next year...

I might even give Anki another try to shove as much Mandarin/Arabic vocab into my brain as I can.

Why June of next year? Mind sharing the urgency, if you're comfortable doing so?
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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-10-16, 4:16

dEhiN wrote:
Serafín wrote:I need to git gud at all of French, Mandarin and Arabic ASAP. I suddenly have a somewhat real need to know them.

Well, not quite ASAP, but I need to improve as much as I can by June next year...

I might even give Anki another try to shove as much Mandarin/Arabic vocab into my brain as I can.

Why June of next year? Mind sharing the urgency, if you're comfortable doing so?

I was wondering this, too, but at first, I thought that said uncomfortable. :lol:

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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby Luís » 2017-10-17, 9:32

Which method would you guys say is the most effective?

Day 1
- Study language A (15 minutes)
- Study language B (15 minutes)
- Study language C (15 minutes)

Day 2
- Study language A (15 minutes)
- Study language B (15 minutes)
- Study language C (15 minutes)

(...)

OR

Day 1
- Study language A (45 minutees)

Day 2
- Study language B (45 minutes)

Day 3
- Study language C (45 minutes)

Day 4
- Study language A (45 minutes)

(...)
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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby IpseDixit » 2017-10-17, 10:41

Luís wrote:Which method would you guys say is the most effective?


I think the first one because, IMHO, it's easier to cement your knowledge if you do something every day instead of leaving a gap of two days.

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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby Car » 2017-10-17, 11:17

I've always been taught that it's better to do a bit regularly than much in one session. IME, you're less likely to burn out, too. I'm currently doing 4 languages on LingQ until I reach the daily target and I find it less demanding than just doing two until I've doubled the target as I used to do in the beginning.
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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby księżycowy » 2017-10-17, 12:08

I second both Ipse & Car. That's the method I use. (When I'm not busy or slacking :P )

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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby Karavinka » 2017-10-17, 12:35

Personally, I'd go with something like this.

Language A: 30 mins
Language B: 7.5 mins
Language C: 7.5 mins

While Language A is your primary target, B/C can be just reviewing. My routine is very Anki-centric, so the B/C would be just reviewing some 30~ish cards.
↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

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Re: Random language thread 5

Postby Luís » 2017-10-17, 13:34

Karavinka wrote:Personally, I'd go with something like this.

Language A: 30 mins
Language B: 7.5 mins
Language C: 7.5 mins

While Language A is your primary target, B/C can be just reviewing. My routine is very Anki-centric, so the B/C would be just reviewing some 30~ish cards.


My routine is also very Anki-centric, so I might try this approach.

I agree that studying a language everyday is better, but sometimes I also have the impression that changing my language focus every 10 or 15 minutes isn't that beneficial either...
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