Lord's Prayer in Japanese

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Lenguas
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Lord's Prayer in Japanese

Postby Lenguas » 2011-07-21, 0:21

Here's me reading the Lord's Prayer in Japanese. Can you understand it?

http://www.datafilehost.com/download-d0d5ee0b.html

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Re: Lord's Prayer in Japanese

Postby hashi » 2011-07-21, 0:44

Lenguas wrote:Here's me reading the Lord's Prayer in Japanese. Can you understand it?

http://www.datafilehost.com/download-d0d5ee0b.html


I never understood why you get so much stick, but now I do. If you feel the need to rape a language, please stay away from Japanese. I had no idea what you were saying in the recording, and it differs to the version of the lord's prayer I found.

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Re: Lord's Prayer in Japanese

Postby Kasuya » 2011-07-21, 1:29

I understood maybe three words. Are you even studying Japanese or are you just trying to desecrate it?

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Re: Lord's Prayer in Japanese

Postby IMABI » 2011-07-21, 4:44

I understood 4 words, lol. It was very hard to comprehend. A lot of sounds were somehow devoiced/contracted that it deviated to a point beyond any proto-Japanese construction.

My advice would be to study Japanese phonetics. If you have to use the phonetic alphabet to have it punctually vivid in your mind, so be it. Another great advice would be to listen to NHK for a few hours nonstop to have Japanese drilled into your mind. Please also don't mess up seion and dakuon sounds. Is there another language that you know that could be disrupting your vocals in Japanese?

I'm not going to be mean and flat out say that it's bad, because I would have definitely done that poorly on my first day trying to speak Japanese, course I still don't think I would have attempted as such. I do agree with the others and wonder myself how much study is put into mind. If you read an entire book in Japanese like I have seen in your comment history, you should have not done that poorly. If it is the recorder, something loud in the room, or what not, I would have a little bit more understanding. I also thought the time at which the audio took was extremely short and somewhat compressed. Whatever the case may be, I don't want Japanese smudged for something it's not. So, please make many, many improvements.

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Re: Lord's Prayer in Japanese

Postby md0 » 2011-07-21, 6:46

I didn't expect it to be that bad :shock: A transcription maybe? I can only make out some ヨネー (which I guess are supposed to be ように).
Image Be quiet when children are sleeping, not when they are being killed.
Image Αν θέλεις να λέγεσαι άνθρωπος, δε θα πάψεις ούτε στιγμή ν’ αγωνίζεσαι για την ειρήνη και για το δίκιο.

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Re: Lord's Prayer in Japanese

Postby hashi » 2011-07-21, 6:55

meidei wrote:I didn't expect it to be that bad :shock: A transcription maybe? I can only make out some ヨネー (which I guess are supposed to be ように).


Yeah, I don't understand. His <k> sounded like [g], and his <i> like [e]. Prosody and vowel length were all really wrong as well.

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Re: Lord's Prayer in Japanese

Postby księżycowy » 2011-07-21, 12:44

If you hadn't told us it was Japanese in the title I would have assumed it was a NAI language. Something like Iroquoian or Algonquin. Japanese is a lot crisper in it's consonant and vowel sounds. It sounds like you were mixing your /k/'s and /g/'s, which is common is NAI languages, but not Japanese. It also sounded like you had some nasal vowels or something in there.

A transcription maybe?
After listening to quite a few of his recordings that's my theory.
Seriously, listen to some natives or something.

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Re: Lord's Prayer in Japanese

Postby Lenguas » 2011-07-21, 14:17

księżycowy wrote:If you hadn't told us it was Japanese in the title I would have assumed it was a NAI language. Something like Iroquoian or Algonquin. Japanese is a lot crisper in it's consonant and vowel sounds. It sounds like you were mixing your /k/'s and /g/'s, which is common is NAI languages, but not Japanese. It also sounded like you had some nasal vowels or something in there.

Well I was going for the Tōhoku dialect, which has those features. It really was completely unintelligbile?

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Re: Lord's Prayer in Japanese

Postby md0 » 2011-07-21, 14:22

I have heard Touhoku-ben. I might not be able to understand much of it, but heck, I can still tell it's Japanese.
Image Be quiet when children are sleeping, not when they are being killed.
Image Αν θέλεις να λέγεσαι άνθρωπος, δε θα πάψεις ούτε στιγμή ν’ αγωνίζεσαι για την ειρήνη και για το δίκιο.

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Re: Lord's Prayer in Japanese

Postby księżycowy » 2011-07-21, 14:45

Lenguas wrote:Well I was going for the Tōhoku dialect, which has those features. It really was completely unintelligbile?

I see. I'd say, though I'm only used to 標準語. I'd still say it didn't sound like Japanese all that much though.

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Re: Lord's Prayer in Japanese

Postby hashi » 2011-07-22, 2:08

Lenguas wrote:
księżycowy wrote:If you hadn't told us it was Japanese in the title I would have assumed it was a NAI language. Something like Iroquoian or Algonquin. Japanese is a lot crisper in it's consonant and vowel sounds. It sounds like you were mixing your /k/'s and /g/'s, which is common is NAI languages, but not Japanese. It also sounded like you had some nasal vowels or something in there.

Well I was going for the Tōhoku dialect, which has those features. It really was completely unintelligbile?


Why not start with 標準語 first to make sure you've got the basics of Japanese right before moving on to other 方言.

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Re: Lord's Prayer in Japanese

Postby Śrāmaṇera » 2011-07-22, 4:06

What's the point of recording yourself in languages you are not learning ?

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Re: Lord's Prayer in Japanese

Postby Lenguas » 2011-07-22, 4:18

hashi wrote:
Lenguas wrote:
księżycowy wrote:If you hadn't told us it was Japanese in the title I would have assumed it was a NAI language. Something like Iroquoian or Algonquin. Japanese is a lot crisper in it's consonant and vowel sounds. It sounds like you were mixing your /k/'s and /g/'s, which is common is NAI languages, but not Japanese. It also sounded like you had some nasal vowels or something in there.

Well I was going for the Tōhoku dialect, which has those features. It really was completely unintelligbile?


Why not start with 標準語 first to make sure you've got the basics of Japanese right before moving on to other 方言.

Good idea. Apparantly Tōhoku-ben is unintelligible to everyone else.

What's the point of recording yourself in languages you are not learning ?
So I can communicate with monolingual or nearly monolingual Japanese speakers (I do know some). Even if I have to use a dictionary/translator. If my pronunciation is too bad, then they won't be able to understand me.

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Re: Lord's Prayer in Japanese

Postby księżycowy » 2011-07-22, 11:00

Lenguas wrote:
What's the point of recording yourself in languages you are not learning ?
So I can communicate with monolingual or nearly monolingual Japanese speakers (I do know some). Even if I have to use a dictionary/translator. If my pronunciation is too bad, then they won't be able to understand me.

So, you're not going to bother learning the language, of which you know some speaker of, but you still want to try communicating with them in Japanese? :?
Why not cut the middleman out and just learn it?

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Re: Lord's Prayer in Japanese

Postby Lenguas » 2011-07-22, 14:07

Why? Because I don't memorize* things when it comes to languages anymore--it's too boring. I just gradually pick up words, grammar, and other things. It just works great for many languages--particularily Spanish. I can understand most things that people say/write as long as they don't speak too fast. Eventually It'll become active knowledge. Sure I'll gradually pick things up in Japanese, like I do in other languages. However there's so much stuff to pick up, I probably won't be fluent until about 2143. Why don't you learn Japanese? I see you don't even consider yourself a beginner in any other language besides 2 European languages (how many years did those take?) and one obscure language, although your language goals make you a "Cesare M. Lite", if you really want to learn 19 languages, 13 of them considered "difficult" due to either their vocabulary, grammar, or scant resources. I might ask why you want to learn 19 languages to fluency, but I shan't.

*I use this ugly word to refer to boring, rote, memorization only.

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Re: Lord's Prayer in Japanese

Postby księżycowy » 2011-07-22, 18:20

Heaven forbid I ask a question. Which you do all the time.

And I am learning Japanese.

And so what if it takes me 15 years to get one down, for me it's about enjoyment. There's no huge rush to be fluent in any of my languages. It's not a speed contest.

And aside from perhaps my language list I don't know where the hell you'd come up with the idea that I want to be fluent in 19 languages. I have no intention of learning even 1/2 of my list to fluency. I have no "Cesare M list" complex.

How about toning down the attitude? Despite our other run ins, I wasn't trying to be a dick this time. It's not like I have a habit of reading every post, so I was just curious.

Though I will add that to me, using just a dictionary and/or translator is a pretty crappy way of trying to communicate with a foreign speaker. It's like telling them that their language isn't worth learning. But hey, whatever.

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Re: Lord's Prayer in Japanese

Postby hashi » 2011-07-22, 23:12

księżycowy wrote:Heaven forbid I ask a question. Which you do all the time.

And I am learning Japanese.

And so what if it takes me 15 years to get one down, for me it's about enjoyment. There's no huge rush to be fluent in any of my languages. It's not a speed contest.

And aside from perhaps my language list I don't know where the hell you'd come up with the idea that I want to be fluent in 19 languages. I have no intention of learning even 1/2 of my list to fluency. I have no "Cesare M list" complex.

How about toning down the attitude? Despite our other run ins, I wasn't trying to be a dick this time. It's not like I have a habit of reading every post, so I was just curious.

Though I will add that to me, using just a dictionary and/or translator is a pretty crappy way of trying to communicate with a foreign speaker. It's like telling them that their language isn't worth learning. But hey, whatever.


Agree with everything :)

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Re: Lord's Prayer in Japanese

Postby księżycowy » 2011-07-22, 23:48

Noticed my typo:
księżycowy wrote:And aside from perhaps my language list I don't know where the hell you'd come up with the idea that I want to be fluent in 19 languages. I have no intention of learning even 1/2 of my list to fluency. I have no "Cesare M lite" complex.


And just to be clear Lenguas, here are the languages I want to be fluent in (which I've stated elsewhere on the forum prior to this): Irish, Polish, German, French, Japanese. A big 5.

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Re: Lord's Prayer in Japanese

Postby Lenguas » 2011-07-23, 0:26

How about toning down the attitude? Despite our other run ins, I wasn't trying to be a dick this time
Yes you are. Look at your next comment: it's awfully harsh.
Though I will add that to me, using just a dictionary and/or translator is a pretty crappy way of trying to communicate with a foreign speaker. It's like telling them that their language isn't worth learning. But hey, whatever.
No, it really isn't. The alternative would be simply not to be able to communicate with them at all, since they don't speak English. Ironically enough, I was the only one to try to communicate with them. My friends who were taking Japanese didn't even bother to try, because they knew their Japanese was very sub par (and they had taken it for years) and were too embarassed that they might make a mistake. Not learning a language is not "like telling them that their language isn't worth learning." There are over 3000 languages that I'm not learning, and it's not because I don't think they're worth learning. But if I can, I will still try to communicate with people that speak them.

That's my view on it. Not everyone is like you--wanting to learn 5 languages to fluency. I will pick up some spoken Japanese but that's it. I'm not going to become fluent in the language or learn the kanji, because that's not a reasonable goal for me (I lack the motivation, and there is no pressing need for me to prioritize learning it instead of other things. I can still have fun with it though.) If I ever run into a monolingual Japanese speaker that thinks I am disrespecting him for not intending on learning his language to fluency, but having the nerve to communicate in it, I will apologize, and we can communicate with drawings instead.

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Re: Lord's Prayer in Japanese

Postby księżycowy » 2011-07-23, 0:42

Lenguas wrote:
How about toning down the attitude? Despite our other run ins, I wasn't trying to be a dick this time
Yes you are. Look at your next comment: it's awfully harsh.
Which was after you got an attitude with me. A fair response to your previous message.

No, it really isn't. The alternative would be simply not to be able to communicate with them at all, since they don't speak English. Ironically enough, I was the only one to try to communicate with them. My friends who were taking Japanese didn't even bother to try, because they knew their Japanese was very sub par (and they had taken it for years) and were too embarassed that they might make a mistake. Not learning a language is not "like telling them that their language isn't worth learning." There are over 3000 languages that I'm not learning, and it's not because I don't think they're worth learning. But if I can, I will still try to communicate with people that speak them.
Point taken.

That's my view on it. Not everyone is like you--wanting to learn 5 languages to fluency. I will pick up some spoken Japanese but that's it. I'm not going to become fluent in the language or learn the kanji, because that's not a reasonable goal for me (I lack the motivation, and there is no pressing need for me to prioritize learning it instead of other things. I can still have fun with it though.) If I ever run into a monolingual Japanese speaker that thinks I am disrespecting him for not intending on learning his language to fluency, but having the nerve to communicate in it, I will apologize, and we can communicate with drawings instead.

You seem to be saying one minute that Japanese is too hard to learn and the next you say you want to learn it. Which is it?

Either way, I'm not saying everyone should be like me. If anyone is assuming anything here it's you. There are many ways and degrees to learn a language, I never implied that you had to learn every aspect of Japanese. Nor did I say anything about needing to learn it to fluency. Learning the spoken language to any level is perfectly fine.
Look at what I'm currently doing with Taiwanese. I'm only learning the spoken language, and I have no plans to be fluent. Enough to converse comfortable on most day to day things is perfectly fine with me.

And the only reason I said anything about disrespecting Japanese speakers is because you made it sound like you wouldn't really learn the language at all before. It sounded like you were just going to type things into something like Google Translate and just use that to communicate period. If you're intent to learn any form Japanese is true, then I retract that statement.


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