Solresol

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Struthiomimus
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Solresol

Postby Struthiomimus » 2009-09-10, 1:20

Simi! Redofafa?

Fasifa-dola sidosi Solresol fare dore? Does anyone want to learn Solresol with me?

Solresol is a conlang, invented by François Sudre in 1866, that has pretty much fallen by the wayside, yielding to other more popular conlangs like Esperanto. Online you can find parts of Boleslas Gajewski’s grammar, such as here:

datapacrat.com/True/LANG/SOLRESOL/SOLRESOL.HTM

and here:

mozai.com/writing/not_mine/solresol/

It’d be really cool to find a copy of Sudre’s work...but I’m not even sure if it still exists.
Anyway, I like Solresol because it’s an a priori conlang and there are so many different ways of expressing it (via words, colors, numbers, and so forth). I opened this thread as a place to gather info for future reference and in hopes of finding other enthusiasts, since understandably they’re hard to come by with Solresol lacking the robust community of say Esperanto (or even Ido or Toki Pona in comparison). So, if you have a copy of Sudre’s work :) or are just interested in learning Solresol together, let me know. Solsi!

Dore redore mire Solresol faremi fasi fala!
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Re: Solresol

Postby BezierCurve » 2009-09-10, 1:27

I also find that conlang cool, but I gave it up when it came to whistling out words. I'm just not that good at getting the right tune... Might give the colours a try though. :)
Brejkam wszystkie rule.

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Struthiomimus
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Re: Solresol

Postby Struthiomimus » 2009-09-27, 1:21

Simi, BezierCurve! Redofafa? Heh, you don’t have to whistle it...that’s just one option. Goodness knows I wouldn’t...and yeah the colors would be cool! Is there any way to type in color blocks here on Unilang? That would be awesome!

So, does this mean you’re going to learn it? Dore sollasire mire domi fasifa sidosi re domilado solresol fare dore :)

P.S. Chyba ja też nadaję się do brejkowania roolooff ;)
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"Beshav me akana kai le chirikle chi gilaban." kaj, "Beidh ceol, caint agus craic againn."

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Re: Solresol

Postby Struthiomimus » 2009-11-02, 3:17

Dore mimi lamire solre Solresol solfa dore mifala mire Solresol domifare! Soldo, dore redore mire mimi falado relasolmi la solrela lasi "Sudre" sol dore fasifa sidosi misol Solresol. :(

Hope that was right :wink:
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"Beshav me akana kai le chirikle chi gilaban." kaj, "Beidh ceol, caint agus craic againn."

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Mancko
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Re: Solresol

Postby Mancko » 2009-11-28, 8:00

I'd be interested to know how to count in Solresol.
I can't find any resource on the web to form cardinal numbers so far, wondering if they've been designed at all.

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Re: Solresol

Postby arpee » 2009-11-29, 15:21

Isn't it confusing when spoken?

If each syllable means a word and each group of syllables mean a word, how would you know if they're saying: domifare, domi fare, do mifare, domifa re, do mi fa re, etc?

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Re: Solresol

Postby Struthiomimus » 2009-11-30, 2:25

@Mancko: yes, they have! 8-)

1= redodo
2= remimi
3= refafa
4= resolsol
5= relala
6= resisi
7= mimido
8= mimire
9= mimifa
10= mimisol
11= mimila
12= mimisi
13= midodo
14= mirere
15= mifafa
16= misolsol
17= milala
18= misisi
19= fafado
20= fafare

30 = fafami
40 = fafasol
50 = fafala
60 = fafasi
70 = *
80 = fadodo
90 = *

100 = farere
1000 = famimi
1,000,000= fasolsol
1,000,000,000 = falala
1,000,000,000,000 = fasisi

@Arpee: I guess it can be...at first anyway, but two things here: First, Gajewski (and I think Sudre too, but I have to double-check) makes it clear that it’s necessary to pause after each word in order to be understood, rather than slurring things together. However, one fan of the idea of Solresol who also saw this aspect of the language as potentially problematic, decided to create a similar language that makes it easier to know where words end. You can find it here:

biteycastle.com/525/01_pronunciation.html

Second, context, context, context! :) From the examples you gave, we have:

1) Domifare = *to live
2) Domi = you, fare = that (or “with” if you go by Gajewski :twisted: )...so literally “you that”
3) Do = not, Mifare = to please, seduce; = “not pleasing/does not please”
4) Domifa = providence, re = and; = “providence and…”
5) do = no/not, mi = or, fa = to, re = and, or altogether “not or to and”...which doesn’t really make any sense...

*Also emphasis matters...for four-syllable words, emphasis on the first syllable denotes the noun, on the second, an agent carrying out the verb’s action, on the third, an adjective and on the final syllable, an adverb. There are parallels to Esperanto...

Domifare (no accent) = to live (vivi)
Do’mifare = life (vivo)
Domi’fare = one who lives (vivanto)
Domifa’re = live (adj.) (viva)
Domifare’ = lively (vive)
Last edited by Struthiomimus on 2009-12-12, 2:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Solresol

Postby Mancko » 2009-11-30, 10:58

Hi Struthiomimus,

Thanks for that numbers list. It actually raises a few questions about the numbers formation.
Is there a word for zero?
How do you make numbers like 25, 35, 67? (I assume it would be 'fafare relala', 'fafami relala' and 'fafasi mimido')
There's no word for 70 and 90. I read it was following the French vigesimal system, so I assume 70 would be 'fafasi mimisol' (60 10), 71 'fafasi mimila' (60 11)... and 90 'fadodo mimisol' (80 10), 91 'fadodo mimila' (80 11). Is it correct?
What would be 200? remimi farere?
1,200 =? famimi remimi farere

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Re: Solresol

Postby Struthiomimus » 2009-12-04, 1:55

Simi Mancko,

For zero, the word that means “nothing” is also used, so “soldo.” I guess I should make a note here, that not all of the definitions Gajewski gives in his grammar (at least in the versions online) match up with the definitions assigned by Sudre in his Langue universelle musicale For example, Gajewski says "soldo" means "but."

About 70 and 90...I haven’t seen it explicitly stated in Sudre’s work, but seeing as Solresol is very French in many other respects, I think it would be a safe bet to say these numbers in Solresol follow the French construction, thus 60 + 10 and 80 + 10. As for the numbers 25, 35, 67, 1200, etc...your guess is as good as mine. I don’t know. I’d guess like you, that 25 would be either “fafare relala” or “fafare re relala,” but whether both or neither is correct, I can’t say. I’d tend towards the former choice, only because elsewhere in Langue universelle musicale, Sudre tries to shorten/simplify phrases as much as possible.
 (wbp)  (qu)  (eo)  (wo)  (rom)  (csb)  (lkt)

"Beshav me akana kai le chirikle chi gilaban." kaj, "Beidh ceol, caint agus craic againn."

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Re: Solresol

Postby arpee » 2009-12-09, 0:51

Imagine solresol but using numbers?

I was planning something like this:

0 [n/m/ng] (word/sentence separator)
Black | A | Left Pinky Finger

1 [ka/ga/ta/sa]
Dark-Blue | A-Sharp/B-Flat | Left Ring Finger

2 [ki/gi/ti/si/ke/ge/te/se]
Purple/Violet | B | Left Middle Finger

3 [ku/gu/tu/su/ko/go/to/so]:
Brown/Dark-Red | B-Sharp/C-Flat | Left Index Finger

4 [la/ra/ma/na]:
Red | D | Left Thumb

5 [li/ri/mi/ni/le/re/me/ne]
Orange | D-Sharp/E-Flat | Right Thumb

6 [lu/ru/mu/nu/lo/ro/mo/no]
Gold/Dark-Yellow | F | Right Index Finger

7 [pa/ba/fa/va]
Yellow | F-Sharp/G-Flat | Right Middle Finger

8 [pi/bi/fi/vi/pe/be/fe/ve]
Gray/Silver | G | Right Ring Finger

9 [pu/bu/fu/vu/po/bo/fo/vo]
White| G-Sharp/G-Flat | Right Pinky Finger

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Re: Solresol

Postby Struthiomimus » 2009-12-11, 2:52

Hey arpee,

16 462 6367 6264' 31 632 1516 525 :)

(dola falare lamilasi larelaffa mido lamire dosoldola solresol)

Your system looks interesting. I like how it incorporates both hands on a piano...I don't get what the syllables in brackets refer to, e.g. [ki/gi/ti/si/ke/ge/te/se]...can you explain?
 (wbp)  (qu)  (eo)  (wo)  (rom)  (csb)  (lkt)

"Beshav me akana kai le chirikle chi gilaban." kaj, "Beidh ceol, caint agus craic againn."

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Re: Solresol

Postby arpee » 2009-12-11, 23:56

Struthiomimus wrote:Hey arpee,

16 462 6367 6264' 31 632 1516 525 :)

(dola falare lamilasi larelaffa mido lamire dosoldola solresol)

Your system looks interesting. I like how it incorporates both hands on a piano...I don't get what the syllables in brackets refer to, e.g. [ki/gi/ti/si/ke/ge/te/se]...can you explain?


The syllables in brackets are the ways to pronounce the number. In solresol you would say lamilasi' lamila'si lami'lasi etc. no clear distinction except a pause.

With these numbers 0 is never used so it is used as a separator as "m,ng,n" for words/sentences.

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Re: Solresol

Postby Struthiomimus » 2009-12-12, 2:39

Wow! I think I like your lang. But I still don't understand why you have up to 8 syllables/possible pronunciations for certain numbers. Solresol words can have up to five versions/pronunciations (verb, two nouns, adjective and adverb). Can you give an example of text in this language? Or how one particular word would change...

Like for example, in Solresol, "Solresol" = 525.

"525" in your language could be pronounced:

likili, likiri, likimi, likini, likile, likire, likime, likine, ligili, ligiri, ligimi, ligini, ligile,ligire, ligime, ligine...and many, many other ways.
 (wbp)  (qu)  (eo)  (wo)  (rom)  (csb)  (lkt)

"Beshav me akana kai le chirikle chi gilaban." kaj, "Beidh ceol, caint agus craic againn."

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Re: Solresol

Postby arpee » 2009-12-12, 4:09

you pick the syllable that is most easy for you to pronounce. so if your japanese and your language has no l you can pronounce it with a r. if you're filipino and cant pronounce f you can pronounce it p/b if your an arab and can't pronounce b then you can use f/p/v etc. it was made for simplicity

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Re: Solresol

Postby Struthiomimus » 2010-01-08, 1:40

There's a copy of Sudre's work available online now. It can be found here:

ifost.org.au/~gregb/solresol/
 (wbp)  (qu)  (eo)  (wo)  (rom)  (csb)  (lkt)

"Beshav me akana kai le chirikle chi gilaban." kaj, "Beidh ceol, caint agus craic againn."

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Re: Solresol

Postby Struthiomimus » 2010-04-01, 0:42

Familasi mido Solresol

Dore mimi lamire dosoldola Solresol solfa dore do fasifa lamisol la Solresol mire dore dodo sidosi misisido. Misolsolsi, redo solsimire solsifasi: dore solsimisol mire solresol resolsido familasi. Mimidore, sido solsifasol familasi? Dore do sollasire mimidore dore solsimisol mire mirelala, dola (re milalami dore mirefado “dola”, dore fasifa mirefado “dore” ;) ) falare lamilasi lla laredore lasi la resisolre lasi Solresol, mi laremila (sol), domisolsisol (re), laremila (sol). Re lamilasi la mirefado lasi la familasi franse. Midodosi la dosido lasi Renaçido, dorre famisol fami. Mila:

Image

Dosolfasol mire Sudre fafa milasol fami...mimidore mire sollasire? re Wow! Lla laredore lasi Solresol faremi redo midofa! Fami faremi soldosolsi! ;)
 (wbp)  (qu)  (eo)  (wo)  (rom)  (csb)  (lkt)

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Re: Solresol

Postby Serafín » 2010-04-03, 2:06

Struthiomimus wrote:*Also emphasis matters...for four-syllable words, emphasis on the first syllable denotes the noun, on the second, an agent carrying out the verb’s action, on the third, an adjective and on the final syllable, an adverb. There are parallels to Esperanto...

Domifare (no accent) = to live (vivi)
Do’mifare = life (vivo)
Domi’fare = one who lives (vivanto)
Domifa’re = live (adj.) (viva)
Domifare’ = lively (vive)

Struthiomimus wrote:Dore mimi lamire dosoldola Solresol solfa dore do fasifa lamisol la Solresol mire dore dodo sidosi misisido. Misolsolsi, redo solsimire solsifasi: dore solsimisol mire solresol resolsido familasi. Mimidore, sido solsifasol familasi? Dore do sollasire mimidore dore solsimisol mire mirelala, dola (re milalami dore mirefado “dola”, dore fasifa mirefado “dore” ;) ) falare lamilasi lla laredore lasi la resisolre lasi Solresol, mi laremila (sol), domisolsisol (re), laremila (sol). Re lamilasi la mirefado lasi la familasi franse. Midodosi la dosido lasi Renaçido, dorre famisol fami.
I see you don't mark any.

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Re: Solresol

Postby Struthiomimus » 2010-04-03, 3:01

Renaçido wrote:I see you don't mark any.


Haha Yeah, well, I was a bit lazy, but also relying on context. I think there are only few words that would be marked anyway (like the two different uses of “mirefado”)...:

"Dore mimi lamire dosoldola Solresol solfa dore do fasifa lamisol la Solresol mire dore dodo sidosi misisido. Misolsolsi, redo s’olsimire solsif’asi: dore solsimisol mire Solresol resolsido f’amilasi. Mimidore, sido solsifasol f’amilasi? Dore do sollasire mimidore dore solsimisol mire mirelala, dola (re milalami dore mirefado “dola”, dore fasifa mirefado “dore” ) falare lamilasi lla l’aredore lasi la r’esisolre lasi Solresol, mi larem’ila (sol), domisols’isol (re), larem’ila (sol). Re lamilasi la m’irefado lasi la f’amilasi franse. Midodosi la dosido lasi Renaçido, dorre famisol fami."

Certain four-syllable words are prepositions or adverbs (misisido = already, dosoldola = in) by default and don’t need to be marked. I guess theoretically these words could be made into other parts of speech, but off the top of my head I can’t think of what “to already (v.)” or “an in (n.)” might mean.

Also, three-syllable words weren’t marked by Sudre, as far as I know...but I could mark them, if you’d like, because it is possible for them to represent different parts of speech.
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Re: Solresol

Postby Serafín » 2010-04-03, 5:38

It looks very interesting, but:
->How much is available to learn it?
->Specially wondering about word usage, are there any long texts? Since the author didn't seem to know much about language, I suppose there was some massive transfer from French. :P
->And most importantly: what the heck are its strategies to derivate words and express complex concepts? With merely 7 phonemes and a maximum of 4 syllables per word I smell some dirty compounding there.

7 + 7P2 + 7P3 + 7P4 = 1099 words. :?

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Re: Solresol

Postby Struthiomimus » 2010-04-06, 4:27

Renaçido wrote:->How much is available to learn it?


Allow me to quote myself :wink: :

Struthiomimus wrote:There's a copy of Sudre's work available online now. It can be found here:

ifost.org.au/~gregb/solresol/


A pdf of Sudre's original work is there, so learn Solresol and you can practice your French at the same time. Yay! :silly:


Renaçido wrote:->Specially wondering about word usage, are there any long texts?


No.

Renaçido wrote:Since the author didn't seem to know much about language, I suppose there was some massive transfer from French. :P


Hmm...I'll send you a link about this. But yeah, Solresol grammar is very French...

Renaçido wrote:->And most importantly: what the heck are its strategies to derivate words and express complex concepts? With merely 7 phonemes and a maximum of 4 syllables per word I smell some dirty compounding there.

7 + 7P2 + 7P3 + 7P4 = 1099 words. :?


How did you get 1099? 7^4 yields 2401, but if you minus the words of only one note repeated such as dodododo, rererere, etc (7 total)...and then the words where there are three of the same notes in a row (dododore, redododo, etc) or 84 total, you still end up with 2310 4-syllable words. On top of that, words aren't limited to four syllables. Sudre created five-syllable words as well, relating to animals, minerals and plants and left several open positions/words without meanings so the language had room to grow I guess... I don't see why words of six or more syllables couldn't be created. If/when the Conlang BTG finishes, you'll see that I had to get creative in order to derive new words and exceeded the 5-syllable mark.

Also, compounding doesn't smell dirty...it smells delicious :partyhat:
 (wbp)  (qu)  (eo)  (wo)  (rom)  (csb)  (lkt)

"Beshav me akana kai le chirikle chi gilaban." kaj, "Beidh ceol, caint agus craic againn."


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