Questions ~Æ

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Ciarán12
Re: Questions ~Æ

Postby Ciarán12 » 2015-01-03, 15:33

Is maith liom é sin a chloisteáil! :)

Æren wrote:Foghlaimím Gaeilge arís


The simple present isn't used as much in Irish as in some other languages, here I would use the present continuous "Táim (or Tá mé) ag foghlaim (na) Gaeilge arís".

Æren wrote:le aon cara.


When counting things in Irish, if you want to say "one thing" you use the word "amháin" after the noun you are counting, so "cara" = (a) friend, "cara amháin" - one friend. You can use "aon" before as well if you want to emphasise that it's just one friend, so "aon chara amháin" = "just one friend" or "a single friend". As Irish doesn't have an indefinite article, you don't really need to use the number here, you can just say "cara" (although, the most idiomatic way to phrase this IMO is "le mo chara" = with my friend, or "le cara liom" = with a friend of mine (lit. with friend with-me).

Æren wrote:Úsáidimid an leabhar TY Irish.


An seaneagrán nó an nua-eagrán?

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Re: Questions ~Æ

Postby Æren » 2015-01-03, 16:30

Go raibh maith agat as an ceartú!

We (I actually, I've just got to know that he has switched to another book) use two editions: the newer one from around 2010 and one from around 1999. I have ordered a second-hand copy of the latter.
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Re: Questions ~Æ

Postby linguoboy » 2015-01-04, 4:22

Ciarán12 wrote:The simple present isn't used as much in Irish as in some other languages, here I would use the present continuous "Táim (or Tá mé) ag foghlaim (na) Gaeilge arís".

Yeah, as in English, the simple present tends to have habitual meaning (except with verbs of thought or perception), and that doesn't quite fit with the adverb arís.

Æren wrote:le aon cara.

1. h is used to eliminate hiatus after le, i.e. le haon.
2. aon lenits non-dental obstruents, i.e. le haon chara.
3. Except in counting, aon has the meaning of "any" or "same". Thus aon chara is "any friend", not "one friend". Compare:

aon chara "any friend" (or "same friend" if you'd mentioned one earlier)
cara amháin "one friend"
aon chara amháin "only friend" (e.g. an t-aon chara amháin atá agam "the only friend I have")
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Re: Questions ~Æ

Postby Æren » 2015-01-08, 21:50

Thank you both for the comments!
I am still in the very starting phase, though the horizons are seemingly getting wider, more annoying mistakes are probably coming ahead :D

Anyway, this time I come with two issues:
1. Have anyone had a glimps on the Duolingo beta-course. I am using it, but I think the pronunciation offered is not very native. I hardly hear the broad consonants, whereas I notice the strong verlarization when I check in Forvo.

2. Having learned some words for time, I couldn't resist to translating the "I've got that summer time sadness" :D So, I guessed for "Tá an brón an samhraidh seo agam"
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Re: Questions ~Æ

Postby linguoboy » 2015-01-08, 22:18

Æren wrote:2. Having learned some words for time, I couldn't resist to translating the "I've got that summer time sadness" :D So, I guessed for "Tá an brón an samhraidh seo agam"

Not bad for a first try. There are a few minor tweaks, but first a very basic one, one that you need to get firmly in your head sooner rather than later because it's one of the most basic rules of Irish syntax: Only one definite article per genitive noun construction. So, for instance, deireadh an tsamhraidh "the end of [the] summer", not *an deireadh an tsamhraidh.

(Minor point #1: Some nouns beginning in s take a t-prefix after the article. The basic rule is that this happens when there would normally be lenition. Historically, the form of the article was ind. Lenition turns /s/ to [h] and, in this instance, that combined with /d/ to yield [tʰ], now spelled ts. Masculine nouns lenite in the genitive, so an tsamhraid "of the summer".)

(Minor point #2: seo means "this". "That" is sin. There's no agreement, so brón an tsamhraidh sin could be read either "that summer sadness" or "the sadness of that summer". The only way I know to force the interpretation you want is an brón sin den tsamhradh, which looks a bit awkward.)

(Minor point 3#: In general, emotions are "on" you rather than "at" you. So Tá brón an samhraidh sin orm.)
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Re: Questions ~Æ

Postby Æren » 2015-01-09, 0:34

Thanks a lot!

I was thinking a bit over the basic rule you mentioned and the last point. About the former, I didn't actually know any rules about the genitive (except for the slendering of the final consonant, which, frankly said, I don't hear at all since I don't hear the velarization in Auslaut, too), the article and the lenition of the masc. nouns so I really improvised.
About the latter, I wondered and was curious about which construction would 'prevail': the one with ar for expressing emotions or the one with ag for possessiveness.

A question about a detail: why is the lenited s after t from the def. article not written as a really lenited one (sh)? Is there any historical reason (probably some dialects did lenite the s?) or it is just an orthographic choice?
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Re: Questions ~Æ

Postby linguoboy » 2015-01-09, 2:17

Æren wrote:A question about a detail: why is the lenited s after t from the def. article not written as a really lenited one (sh)? Is there any historical reason (probably some dialects did lenite the s?) or it is just an orthographic choice?

Just leniting it wouldn't show the proper pronunciation. There are cases where initial s is lenited to sh. But since there's no article before it, it's pronounced [h], not [tʰ], e.g. tá sé ina shamhradh "It's like summer" (lit. "it's in its summer").

BTW, samhradh and samhraidh sound the same in some dialects (e.g. Cois Fhairrge) but in others there's a definite contrast. In Munster, for instance, unstressed -adh is [ə] (as in Connacht) but slender dh is [ɟ], so the contrast is [ˈsˠauɾˠə] vs [ˈsˠauɾˠɪɟ]. In Ulster, unstressed -adh is [u] but -aidh is [i], so it's [ˈsˠauɾˠu] vs [ˈsˠauɾˠi]
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Ciarán12

Re: Questions ~Æ

Postby Ciarán12 » 2015-01-10, 13:38

linguoboy wrote:BTW, samhradh and samhraidh sound the same in some dialects (e.g. Cois Fhairrge) but in others there's a definite contrast. In Munster, for instance, unstressed -adh is [ə] (as in Connacht) but slender dh is [ɟ], so the contrast is [ˈsˠauɾˠə] vs [ˈsˠauɾˠɪɟ]. In Ulster, unstressed -adh is [u] but -aidh is [i], so it's [ˈsˠauɾˠu] vs [ˈsˠauɾˠi]


And of course, as usual, I have a mixed pronunciation where I contrast it as [ˈsˠauɾˠə] - [ˈsˠauɾˠi]. Is that a valid pair in any of the trad. dialects?

Agus ar ndóigh, mar is gnách, tá fuimniú measctha ar mo chuid cainte, déarfainnse [ˈsˠauɾˠə] - [ˈsˠauɾˠi]. An bhfuil canúint thradaisiúnta ann ina bhfuil sé sin i gceart?

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Re: Questions ~Æ

Postby Æren » 2015-01-18, 13:23

Dia daoibh!

I was thinking yesterday, whether one could say in Irish "Tá laethanta dá leithéid ann" for 'there're such days'.

Also, do you know some other expressions which could be used for expressing similar sense (like 'it happens', etc)?
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Re: Questions ~Æ

Postby Ciarán12 » 2015-01-18, 15:14

I'm not great at this kind of thing in Irish either, but that doesn't actually sound half bad to me. I might say "laethanta den sórt/cineál sin", not sure why though.

My first thought was to say "Is mar sin (atá) an saol", when I looked that up I found the phrase "is mar sin a chasann rothaí móra an tsaoil" (lit. "That's how the big wheels of life turn").

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Re: Questions ~Æ

Postby Æren » 2015-10-17, 19:59

Dia daoibh!

Scríobh mé cuplá abairt agus níl fhios agam cé acu is ceart siad:

    Beidh gach rud go breá
    Tá réiteach do ghach deacracht.
    Tá rud éigin álainn ag gach duine.
    Beidh mé ag foghlaim Breatnais chomh maith.

Go raibh maith agat agus oíche mhaith :)
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Re: Questions ~Æ

Postby linguoboy » 2015-10-17, 21:28

Æren wrote:Scríobh mé cúpla abairt agus níl fhios agam cé acu is an bhfuil siad ceart siad:

    Beidh gach rud go breá
    Tá réiteach do ghach deacracht.
    Tá rud éigin álainn ag gach duine.
    Beidh mé ag foghlaim Breatnaise chomh maith.
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