Levike wrote:Is the way the real Irish people pronounce Irish any different from the way the standard is thought in Anglophone areas?
What do you mean when you say "real Irish people"?
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Levike wrote:Is the way the real Irish people pronounce Irish any different from the way the standard is thought in Anglophone areas?
People who speak perfectly fluent Irish because it's their mother-tongue..linguoboy wrote:What do you mean when you say "real Irish people"?
mōdgethanc wrote:No, I meant that they seem to be doing the best and have the best chance of surviving in the long term. That isn't to say their survival is guaranteed, though. You know a lot more about this topic than I do; what do you think?
mōdgethanc wrote:I already admitted (to Ciarán, but still) that I don't know very much about Celtic languages. However, based on what I do know about the subject, I'm not very optimistic about language revival as a whole. It can work (Hebrew proves that) but most of the time, it has mixed results.morlader wrote:Then there's always the option of admitting the limits of one's knowledge.
Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:But a revived language being relexified English is not necessarily a bad thing.
Levike wrote:Is the way the real Irish people pronounce Irish
any different from the way the standard is thought in Anglophone areas?
Levike wrote:People who speak perfectly fluent Irish because it's their mother-tongue..linguoboy wrote:What do you mean when you say "real Irish people"?
Doesn't that mean that there's a high chanceCiarán12 wrote:It depends on who the teacher is.
If that makes you fell better.Doesn't make them any more real than any of the rest of us.
Levike wrote:People who speak perfectly fluent Irish because it's their mother-tongue..linguoboy wrote:What do you mean when you say "real Irish people"?
Levike wrote:If that makes you fell better.Doesn't make them any more real than any of the rest of us.
Levike wrote:Doesn't that mean that there's a high chance that the totally revived Irish is going to be English-ish, kind of a fail.
Yeap.linguoboy wrote:Oh, you mean "mother tongue/L1 speakers of Irish".
They must be desperate then.because, in the Irish context, "native speaker" tends to be use for people who are actually L2
Nah, I'm just in a good mood.Any particular reason for this bit of rudeness?
Levike wrote:They must be desperate then.because, in the Irish context, "native speaker" tends to be use for people who are actually L2
Do native-native-Irish speakers have a separate name for themselves then?linguoboy wrote:No, they just have a different interpretation of the term
due to their unique history.
Levike wrote:Do native-native-Irish speakers have a separate name for themselves then?linguoboy wrote:No, they just have a different interpretation of the term due to their unique history.
Levike wrote:And do they have a word for non-native-native Irish speakers, like, I don't know, simply "English people"?
Levike wrote:Or what's their view of the non-Irish speaking part of Ireland?
Do they have a term for Anglophones?linguoboy wrote:I don't even know what you're asking.
I was hoping maybe Ciarán12 could give an answer.Why don't you find some and ask?Or what's their view of the non-Irish speaking part of Ireland?
Levike wrote:Do they have a term for Anglophones?linguoboy wrote:I don't even know what you're asking.
Levike wrote:I was hoping Ciarán12 could give an answer.
Levike wrote:Doesn't that mean that there's a high chanceCiarán12 wrote:It depends on who the teacher is.
that the totally revived Irish is going to be English-ish, kind of a fail.
Levike wrote:If that makes you fell better.Doesn't make them any more real than any of the rest of us.
Levike wrote:Nah, I'm just in a good mood.Any particular reason for this bit of rudeness?
linguoboy wrote:Oh, you mean "mother tongue/L1 speakers of Irish". (I avoid the term "native Irish-speakers" or "native speakers of Irish" because, in the Irish context, "native speaker" tends to be use for people who are actually L2, contrary to the meaning it has elsewhere of someone raised in the language from birth.)
Levike wrote:They must be desperate then.because, in the Irish context, "native speaker" tends to be use for people who are actually L2
Levike wrote:Do native-native-Irish speakers have a separate name for themselves then?linguoboy wrote:No, they just have a different interpretation of the term
due to their unique history.
Levike wrote:And do they have a word for non-native-native Irish speakers,
like, I don't know, simply "English people"?
Levike wrote:Or what's their view of the non-Irish speaking part of Ireland?
Levike wrote:Do they have a term for Anglophones?[linguoboy wrote:I don't even know what you're asking.
Levike wrote:I was hoping maybe Ciarán12 could give an answer.Why don't you find some and ask?Or what's their view of the non-Irish speaking part of Ireland?
Levike wrote:And how do real Irish-speaking Irish think about this?
How do they view the Anglophone part?
I'd say some of them (a minority, I hope) would consider the Anglophone Irish population to be basically English people, but I dare any of them to say that to my face... As far as most Irish people (Anglophones and Irish speakers alike) are concerned, we are all ethnically the same, same history, same culture.
linguoboy wrote:Levike wrote:Do they have a term for Anglophones?linguoboy wrote:I don't even know what you're asking.
Those terms do exist in Irish. In formal documents, you'd find "Béarlóirí" or "cainteoirí Béarla". Informally, I imagine it would be more common to say "daoine gan Ghaeilge" ("people without Irish") with the ability to speak English being assumed.
linguoboy wrote:Levike wrote:I was hoping Ciarán12 could give an answer.
As far as I know, Ciarán's never been to a Gaeltacht and doesn't know anybody from there.
An Lon Dubh wrote: Far more than caring about you being from outside the Gaeltacht, they don't like you learning the standard (An Caighdeán).
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