There is great chaos under heaven

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IpseDixit
There is great chaos under heaven

Postby IpseDixit » 2017-02-09, 17:24

[flag=]en[/flag] There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent.

[flag=]it[/flag] C'è grande confusione sotto il cielo; la situazione è ottima.
[flag=]lld[/flag] L'é n gran bérghen sot l ciel; la situazion é ezelenta.

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linguoboy
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Re: There is great chaos under heaven

Postby linguoboy » 2017-02-09, 18:09

[flag=]en[/flag] There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent.
[flag=]de[/flag] Es herrscht ein großes Chaos unter dem Himmel, aber die Bedingungen sind exzellent.

[flag=]ca[/flag] Hi ha un gran caos al cel, la situació és excel·lent.
[flag=]it[/flag] C'è grande confusione sotto il cielo; la situazione è ottima.
[flag=]lld[/flag] L'é n gran bérghen sot l ciel; la situazion é ezelenta.

[flag=]cn-tw[/flag] 天下大亂,形勢大好。
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

IpseDixit

Re: There is great chaos under heaven

Postby IpseDixit » 2017-02-10, 8:19

linguoboy wrote:[flag=]de[/flag] Es herrscht ein großes Chaos unter dem Himmel, aber die Bedingungen sind exzellent.


Doesn't aber mean "but"? If so, it seems to me that it changes the meaning of the sentence: it's exactly because there's great chaos that the situation is excellent (or at least, I've always interpreted it like that).

linguoboy wrote: [flag=]ca[/flag]al cel


Doesn't that mean "in heaven/in the sky"? Shouldn't it be sota del cel?

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Re: There is great chaos under heaven

Postby Michael » 2017-02-10, 8:32

Adding Neapolitan, Greek, Azerbaijani and Turkish.

[flag=]en[/flag] There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent.
[flag=]de[/flag] Es herrscht ein großes Chaos unter dem Himmel, aber die Bedingungen sind exzellent.

[flag=]ca[/flag] Hi ha un gran caos al cel, la situació és excel·lent.
[flag=]it[/flag] C'è grande confusione sotto il cielo; la situazione è ottima.
[flag=]nap[/flag] Ce šta ggrande confusióne sótt’allu cielo; la situazióne è eccelenta.
[flag=]lld[/flag] L'é n gran bérghen sot l ciel; la situazion é ezelenta.

[flag=]el[/flag] Υπάρχει μεγάλη σύγχυση κάτω από τον ουρανό· η κατάσταση είναι εξαίρετη.

[flag=]tr[/flag] Göğün altında yüce şaşırtma var; durum mükemmeldir.
[flag=]az[/flag] Göyün altında möhtəşəm dolaşıq var, bəs vəziyyət əladır.
[ownflag=]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Flag_of_South_Azerbaijan.svg/320px-Flag_of_South_Azerbaijan.svg.png[/ownflag] گوڭڭ آلتینده محتشم طولاشیق وار، بس وضعیت علادر.


[flag=]cn-tw[/flag] 天下大亂,形勢大好。
American English (en-us) Neapolitan from Molise (nap) N Italian (it) B2 Spanish (es) Portuguese (pt) French (fr) Greek (el) Albanian (sq) B1 Polish (pl) Romanian (ro) A2 Azerbaijani (az) Turkish (tr) Old English (en_old) A1
„Çdo njeri është peng i veprave të veta.‟
Every human being is hostage to their own deeds.

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Bernard
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Re: There is great chaos under heaven

Postby Bernard » 2017-02-10, 12:03

+ Latin

[flag=]en[/flag] There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent.
[flag=]de[/flag] Es herrscht ein großes Chaos unter dem Himmel, aber die Bedingungen sind exzellent.

[flag=]ca[/flag] Hi ha un gran caos al cel, la situació és excel·lent.
[flag=]it[/flag] C'è grande confusione sotto il cielo; la situazione è ottima.
[flag=]la[/flag] Maxima quidem omnium rerum sub caelo est confusio, sed excellens condicio.
[flag=]lld[/flag] L'é n gran bérghen sot l ciel; la situazion é ezelenta.
[flag=]nap[/flag] Ce šta ggrande confusióne sótt’allu cielo; la situazióne è eccelenta.


[flag=]el[/flag] Υπάρχει μεγάλη σύγχυση κάτω από τον ουρανό· η κατάσταση είναι εξαίρετη.

[flag=]tr[/flag] Göğün altında yüce şaşırtma var; durum mükemmeldir.
[flag=]az[/flag] Göyün altında möhtəşəm dolaşıq var, bəs vəziyyət əladır.
[ownflag=]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Flag_of_South_Azerbaijan.svg/320px-Flag_of_South_Azerbaijan.svg.png[/ownflag] گوڭڭ آلتینده محتشم طولاشیق وار، بس وضعیت علادر.


[flag=]cn-tw[/flag] 天下大亂,形勢大好。

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Re: There is great chaos under heaven

Postby linguoboy » 2017-02-10, 18:27

IpseDixit wrote:
linguoboy wrote:[flag=]de[/flag] Es herrscht ein großes Chaos unter dem Himmel, aber die Bedingungen sind exzellent.

Doesn't aber mean "but"? If so, it seems to me that it changes the meaning of the sentence: it's exactly because there's great chaos that the situation is excellent (or at least, I've always interpreted it like that).

This is a well-known phrase (despite the weakness of its attribution), so I Googled it, and this appeared to be the most common way of expressing it. (Some of the competing versions without aber looked like they came from translations of English-language sources.) But I broadened my search and it seems that on balance "Es herrscht große Unordnung unter dem Himmel, die Lage ist ausgezeichnet" as well as being closer to your version is also more widespread online.

IpseDixit wrote:
linguoboy wrote: [flag=]ca[/flag]al cel

Doesn't that mean "in heaven/in the sky"? Shouldn't it be sota del cel?

"sota el cel". (Del doesn't seem very idiomatic here.) I found roughly equal numbers of both, but I agree that the version with "sota" is better. I didn't realise that wasn't what I'd written.
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Re: There is great chaos under heaven

Postby Multiturquoise » 2017-03-04, 3:42

Turkish correction. Trying Russian, adding Spanish, Georgian and French.

[flag=]en[/flag] There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent.
[flag=]de[/flag] Es herrscht ein großes Chaos unter dem Himmel, aber die Bedingungen sind exzellent.

[flag=]ca[/flag] Hi ha un gran caos al cel, la situació és excel·lent.
[flag=]es[/flag] Hay un gran caos debajo del cielo, la situación es excelente.
[flag=]fr[/flag] Il y a un grand chaos sous le ciel, la situation est excellente.
[flag=]it[/flag] C'è grande confusione sotto il cielo; la situazione è ottima.
[flag=]la[/flag] Maxima quidem omnium rerum sub caelo est confusio, sed excellens condicio.
[flag=]lld[/flag] L'é n gran bérghen sot l ciel; la situazion é ezelenta.
[flag=]nap[/flag] Ce šta ggrande confusióne sótt’allu cielo; la situazióne è eccelenta.

[flag=]ru[/flag] Под небом есть великий хаос; ситуация отличная. :?:

[flag=]el[/flag] Υπάρχει μεγάλη σύγχυση κάτω από τον ουρανό· η κατάσταση είναι εξαίρετη.

[flag=]tr[/flag] Göğün altında büyük bir kaos var; ama durum şahane.
[flag=]az[/flag] Göyün altında möhtəşəm dolaşıq var, bəs vəziyyət əladır.
[ownflag=]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Flag_of_South_Azerbaijan.svg/320px-Flag_of_South_Azerbaijan.svg.png[/ownflag] گوڭڭ آلتینده محتشم طولاشیق وار، بس وضعیت علادر.


[flag=]ka[/flag] ზეცის ქვეშ დიდი ქაოსია, მაგრამ სიტუაცია შესანიშნავია.

[flag=]cn-tw[/flag] 天下大亂,形勢大好。
native: (tr)
advanced: (en) (el)
intermediate: (fr) (ka)
focus: (de) (sl) (hr)

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Re: There is great chaos under heaven

Postby Linguaphile » 2017-04-09, 3:34

Correcting Spanish to a more common translation, adding Estonian.

[flag=]en[/flag] There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent.
[flag=]de[/flag] Es herrscht ein großes Chaos unter dem Himmel, aber die Bedingungen sind exzellent.

[flag=]ca[/flag] Hi ha un gran caos al cel, la situació és excel·lent.
[flag=]es[/flag] Hay un gran caos bajo el cielo; la situación es excelente.
[flag=]fr[/flag] Il y a un grand chaos sous le ciel, la situation est excellente.
[flag=]it[/flag] C'è grande confusione sotto il cielo; la situazione è ottima.
[flag=]la[/flag] Maxima quidem omnium rerum sub caelo est confusio, sed excellens condicio.
[flag=]lld[/flag] L'é n gran bérghen sot l ciel; la situazion é ezelenta.
[flag=]nap[/flag] Ce šta ggrande confusióne sótt’allu cielo; la situazióne è eccelenta.

[flag=]ru[/flag] Под небом есть великий хаос; ситуация отличная. :?:

[flag=]el[/flag] Υπάρχει μεγάλη σύγχυση κάτω από τον ουρανό· η κατάσταση είναι εξαίρετη.

[flag=]et[/flag] Taevaaluses on suur segadus; olukord on suurepärane.

[flag=]tr[/flag] Göğün altında büyük bir kaos var; ama durum şahane.
[flag=]az[/flag] Göyün altında möhtəşəm dolaşıq var, bəs vəziyyət əladır.
[ownflag=]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Flag_of_South_Azerbaijan.svg/320px-Flag_of_South_Azerbaijan.svg.png[/ownflag] گوڭڭ آلتینده محتشم طولاشیق وار، بس وضعیت علادر.


[flag=]ka[/flag] ზეცის ქვეშ დიდი ქაოსია, მაგრამ სიტუაცია შესანიშნავია.

[flag=]cn-tw[/flag] 天下大亂,形勢大好。[/quote]

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Re: There is great chaos under heaven

Postby Bubulus » 2017-04-13, 16:58

Changing the Catalan as per linguoboy's post.

By the way, I like your correction, Linguaphile. "Bajo el cielo" definitely sounds better. Then again, I don't know if you're a native speaker...

[flag=]en[/flag] There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent.
[flag=]de[/flag] Es herrscht ein großes Chaos unter dem Himmel, aber die Bedingungen sind exzellent.

[flag=]ca[/flag] Hi ha un gran caos sota el cel, la situació és excel·lent.
[flag=]es[/flag] Hay un gran caos bajo el cielo; la situación es excelente.
[flag=]fr[/flag] Il y a un grand chaos sous le ciel, la situation est excellente.
[flag=]it[/flag] C'è grande confusione sotto il cielo; la situazione è ottima.
[flag=]la[/flag] Maxima quidem omnium rerum sub caelo est confusio, sed excellens condicio.
[flag=]lld[/flag] L'é n gran bérghen sot l ciel; la situazion é ezelenta.
[flag=]nap[/flag] Ce šta ggrande confusióne sótt’allu cielo; la situazióne è eccelenta.

[flag=]ru[/flag] Под небом есть великий хаос; ситуация отличная. :?:

[flag=]el[/flag] Υπάρχει μεγάλη σύγχυση κάτω από τον ουρανό· η κατάσταση είναι εξαίρετη.

[flag=]et[/flag] Taevaaluses on suur segadus; olukord on suurepärane.

[flag=]tr[/flag] Göğün altında büyük bir kaos var; ama durum şahane.
[flag=]az[/flag] Göyün altında möhtəşəm dolaşıq var, bəs vəziyyət əladır.
[ownflag=]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Flag_of_South_Azerbaijan.svg/320px-Flag_of_South_Azerbaijan.svg.png[/ownflag] گوڭڭ آلتینده محتشم طولاشیق وار، بس وضعیت علادر.


[flag=]ka[/flag] ზეცის ქვეშ დიდი ქაოსია, მაგრამ სიტუაცია შესანიშნავია.

[flag=]cn-tw[/flag] 天下大亂,形勢大好。

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Re: There is great chaos under heaven

Postby Multiturquoise » 2017-08-09, 20:36

Improving English, adding Swedish.

[flag=]en[/flag] There is great chaos under heaven, but the situation is excellent.
[flag=]de[/flag] Es herrscht ein großes Chaos unter dem Himmel, aber die Bedingungen sind exzellent.
[flag=]sv[/flag] Det finns ett stort kaos under himmelen, men situationen är utmärkt.

[flag=]ca[/flag] Hi ha un gran caos sota el cel, la situació és excel·lent.
[flag=]es[/flag] Hay un gran caos bajo el cielo; la situación es excelente.
[flag=]fr[/flag] Il y a un grand chaos sous le ciel, la situation est excellente.
[flag=]it[/flag] C'è grande confusione sotto il cielo; la situazione è ottima.
[flag=]la[/flag] Maxima quidem omnium rerum sub caelo est confusio, sed excellens condicio.
[flag=]lld[/flag] L'é n gran bérghen sot l ciel; la situazion é ezelenta.
[flag=]nap[/flag] Ce šta ggrande confusióne sótt’allu cielo; la situazióne è eccelenta.

[flag=]ru[/flag] Под небом есть великий хаос; ситуация отличная. :?:

[flag=]el[/flag] Υπάρχει μεγάλη σύγχυση κάτω από τον ουρανό· η κατάσταση είναι εξαίρετη.

[flag=]et[/flag] Taevaaluses on suur segadus; olukord on suurepärane.

[flag=]tr[/flag] Göğün altında büyük bir kaos var; ama durum şahane.
[flag=]az[/flag] Göyün altında möhtəşəm dolaşıq var, bəs vəziyyət əladır.
[ownflag=]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Flag_of_South_Azerbaijan.svg/320px-Flag_of_South_Azerbaijan.svg.png[/ownflag] گوڭڭ آلتینده محتشم طولاشیق وار، بس وضعیت علادر.


[flag=]ka[/flag] ზეცის ქვეშ დიდი ქაოსია, მაგრამ სიტუაცია შესანიშნავია.

[flag=]cn-tw[/flag] 天下大亂,形勢大好。
Last edited by Multiturquoise on 2017-08-09, 23:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: There is great chaos under heaven

Postby Linguaphile » 2017-08-09, 20:56

Elaine wrote:Correcting English, adding Swedish.

[flag=]en[/flag] There is a great chaos under the heaven, but the situation is excellent.

Why? To me they are both correct. The original version "there is great chaos," with "chaos" as a mass noun (no article needed), actually sounds more natural to me in English than your change. I'm not saying that your version is incorrect - just that the original was fine as well, so there's no need to add the article.
Also: "under heaven" or "under Heaven" seem fine. Another way to say it would be "under the heavens."
Again, I'm not saying yours is incorrect, but I really saw no need to "correct" the original either. They are just different ways of saying it and the original sounded fine and quite natural to me.

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Re: There is great chaos under heaven

Postby linguoboy » 2017-08-10, 14:49

Linguaphile wrote:
Elaine wrote:Correcting English, adding Swedish.

[flag=]en[/flag] There is a great chaos under the heaven, but the situation is excellent.

Why? To me they are both correct. The original version "there is great chaos," with "chaos" as a mass noun (no article needed), actually sounds more natural to me in English than your change. I'm not saying that your version is incorrect - just that the original was fine as well, so there's no need to add the article.
Also: "under heaven" or "under Heaven" seem fine. Another way to say it would be "under the heavens."
Again, I'm not saying yours is incorrect, but I really saw no need to "correct" the original either. They are just different ways of saying it and the original sounded fine and quite natural to me.

I'll go further: "under the heaven" sounds completely unidiomatic to me. The article only works with the plural form, but it sounds better in the singular.

N.B.: When no fewer than three or four native speakers of a particular language have posted to a translation thread, you can safely assume that the version in their language doesn't require any correction.
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Re: There is great chaos under heaven

Postby Linguaphile » 2017-08-10, 15:20

linguoboy wrote:I'll go further: "under the heaven" sounds completely unidiomatic to me.

It does. I had the same thought before I posted my earlier reply, googled the phrase, and found something like half a million hits for "under the heaven," mostly either from the King James Version of the Bible or referring to what is stated in Chinese as 天下. But 天下 was the concept used in the original quote in this case (it's attributed, rightly or wrongly, to Mao Zedong; whether it was his quote or not, presumably it was the concept of 天下 that was being referred to). So it is used in certain contexts and that's why I see it as acceptable in a quote like this, but to sound more natural in modern English, it should be "under heaven."

IpseDixit

Re: There is great chaos under heaven

Postby IpseDixit » 2017-08-10, 17:18

The English quote doesn't have "but".

[flag=]en[/flag] There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent.
[flag=]de[/flag] Es herrscht ein großes Chaos unter dem Himmel, aber die Bedingungen sind exzellent.
[flag=]sv[/flag] Det finns ett stort kaos under himmelen, men situationen är utmärkt.

[flag=]ca[/flag] Hi ha un gran caos sota el cel, la situació és excel·lent.
[flag=]es[/flag] Hay un gran caos bajo el cielo; la situación es excelente.
[flag=]fr[/flag] Il y a un grand chaos sous le ciel, la situation est excellente.
[flag=]it[/flag] C'è grande confusione sotto il cielo; la situazione è ottima.
[flag=]la[/flag] Maxima quidem omnium rerum sub caelo est confusio, sed excellens condicio.
[flag=]lld[/flag] L'é n gran bérghen sot l ciel; la situazion é ezelenta.
[flag=]nap[/flag] Ce šta ggrande confusióne sótt’allu cielo; la situazióne è eccelenta.

[flag=]ru[/flag] Под небом есть великий хаос; ситуация отличная. :?:

[flag=]el[/flag] Υπάρχει μεγάλη σύγχυση κάτω από τον ουρανό· η κατάσταση είναι εξαίρετη.

[flag=]et[/flag] Taevaaluses on suur segadus; olukord on suurepärane.

[flag=]tr[/flag] Göğün altında büyük bir kaos var; ama durum şahane.
[flag=]az[/flag] Göyün altında möhtəşəm dolaşıq var, bəs vəziyyət əladır.
[ownflag=]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Flag_of_South_Azerbaijan.svg/320px-Flag_of_South_Azerbaijan.svg.png[/ownflag] گوڭڭ آلتینده محتشم طولاشیق وار، بس وضعیت علادر.


[flag=]ka[/flag] ზეცის ქვეშ დიდი ქაოსია, მაგრამ სიტუაცია შესანიშნავია.

[flag=]cn-tw[/flag] 天下大亂,形勢大好。

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Re: There is great chaos under heaven

Postby Iván » 2017-08-12, 19:49

+ Finnish

[flag=]en[/flag] There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent.
[flag=]de[/flag] Es herrscht ein großes Chaos unter dem Himmel, aber die Bedingungen sind exzellent.
[flag=]sv[/flag] Det finns ett stort kaos under himmelen, men situationen är utmärkt.

[flag=]ca[/flag] Hi ha un gran caos sota el cel, la situació és excel·lent.
[flag=]es[/flag] Hay un gran caos bajo el cielo; la situación es excelente.
[flag=]fr[/flag] Il y a un grand chaos sous le ciel, la situation est excellente.
[flag=]it[/flag] C'è grande confusione sotto il cielo; la situazione è ottima.
[flag=]la[/flag] Maxima quidem omnium rerum sub caelo est confusio, sed excellens condicio.
[flag=]lld[/flag] L'é n gran bérghen sot l ciel; la situazion é ezelenta.
[flag=]nap[/flag] Ce šta ggrande confusióne sótt’allu cielo; la situazióne è eccelenta.

[flag=]ru[/flag] Под небом есть великий хаос; ситуация отличная. :?:

[flag=]el[/flag] Υπάρχει μεγάλη σύγχυση κάτω από τον ουρανό· η κατάσταση είναι εξαίρετη.

[flag=]et[/flag] Taevaaluses on suur segadus; olukord on suurepärane.
[flag=]fi[/flag] Taivaan alla on suuri kaaos; tilanne on loistava.

[flag=]tr[/flag] Göğün altında büyük bir kaos var; ama durum şahane.
[flag=]az[/flag] Göyün altında möhtəşəm dolaşıq var, bəs vəziyyət əladır.
[ownflag=]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Flag_of_South_Azerbaijan.svg/320px-Flag_of_South_Azerbaijan.svg.png[/ownflag] گوڭڭ آلتینده محتشم طولاشیق وار، بس وضعیت علادر.


[flag=]ka[/flag] ზეცის ქვეშ დიდი ქაოსია, მაგრამ სიტუაცია შესანიშნავია.

[flag=]cn-tw[/flag] 天下大亂,形勢大好。
Minkä nuorena oppii, sen vanhana taitaa.

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Multiturquoise
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Re: There is great chaos under heaven

Postby Multiturquoise » 2017-08-14, 20:44

Adding Albanian, Czech and Slovak.
Trying Irish and Scottish Gaelic, Polish

(en) There is great chaos under heaven; the situation is excellent.
(de) Es herrscht ein großes Chaos unter dem Himmel, aber die Bedingungen sind exzellent.
(sv) Det finns ett stort kaos under himmelen, men situationen är utmärkt.

(ca) Hi ha un gran caos sota el cel, la situació és excel·lent.
(es) Hay un gran caos bajo el cielo; la situación es excelente.
(fr) Il y a un grand chaos sous le ciel, la situation est excellente.
(it) C'è grande confusione sotto il cielo; la situazione è ottima.
(la) Maxima quidem omnium rerum sub caelo est confusio, sed excellens condicio.
(lld) L'é n gran bérghen sot l ciel; la situazion é ezelenta.
(nap) Ce šta ggrande confusióne sótt’allu cielo; la situazióne è eccelenta.

(ga) Tá anord mór faoin spéir, ach tá an staid go hiontach. :?:
(gd) Tha ùpraid mhòr fon speur, ach tha an suidheachadh sàr-mhath. :?:

(cs) Je tam velký chaos pod nebem; situace je vynikající.
(sk) Je tam veľký chaos pod nebom; situácia je vynikajúca.
(pl) Pod niebem jest wielki chaos, sytuacja jest doskonała.
(ru) Под небом есть великий хаос; ситуация отличная. :?:

(sq) Ka një kaos i madh nën qiell, por situata është e shkëlqyer.

(el) Υπάρχει μεγάλη σύγχυση κάτω από τον ουρανό· η κατάσταση είναι εξαίρετη.

(et) Taevaaluses on suur segadus; olukord on suurepärane.
(fi) Taivaan alla on suuri kaaos; tilanne on loistava.

(tr) Göğün altında büyük bir kaos var; ama durum şahane.
(az) Göyün altında möhtəşəm dolaşıq var, bəs vəziyyət əladır.
گوڭڭ آلتینده محتشم طولاشیق وار، بس وضعیت علادر.


(ka) ზეცის ქვეშ დიდი ქაოსია, მაგრამ სიტუაცია შესანიშნავია.

(tw) 天下大亂,形勢大好。
native: (tr)
advanced: (en) (el)
intermediate: (fr) (ka)
focus: (de) (sl) (hr)


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