Questions about Slovak

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qwerty
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Re: Questions about Slovak

Postby qwerty » 2013-04-22, 7:25

MasterEnki wrote:Here's what I was trying to say:

akeho je Lenkin dom?
What is Lenka's home like?

akom je na zahrade?
What is it like in the garden?

What is Lenka's home like? = Aký je Lenkin dom? (nominative)
What is it like in the garden? = Ako je v záhrade? (=How is it in the garden? - adverb, no declension)

MasterEnki wrote:How does one know what 'pattern' of Conjugation to follow for a verb?
Now that I think of it, I don't know :( There are rules for finding a declension pattern for nouns and adjectives, but with verbs it seems more complicated. You could maybe try to conjugate the verb based on the one that sounds the most alike; for example, there is just one-letter difference between visieť (to hang) and vidieť (to see), and indeed they have the same forms (vidím, vidíš, vidí, vidíme, vidíte, vidia; visím, visíš, visí, visíme, visíte, visia). (But even then there may be irregularities, or words that have nothing in common with any of those mentioned in the link... Let's hope other people will share their thoughts.)

MasterEnki wrote:I had a thought about Verbal Aspects:

Do all 'Perfective' Verbs have a 'preposition' in them (zahrat', urobit', etc.)?
If so, is there a rule in which ones must go with which 'Imperfective' Verb?
The aspects may well be one of the most difficult parts of the language. I don't know if there is a way to algorithmically determine if a verb is perfective (dokonavé sloveso) or imperfective (nedokonavé sloveso). But you have a point here, very often the perfective form is obtained from the imperfective adding a prefix that looks like a preposition. As for the "allowed" combinations (this is no rule, just an observation made still half asleep in the morning, so it may be incorrectly generalised) - there are usually several prefixes you may add to get a meaningful verb, but each of the resulting verbs has a slightly different meaning, and is not necessarily the exact perfective form corresponding to the imperfective verb you originally had. Re-reading this sentence, even I got confused, so to take your example:

MasterEnki wrote:Does robit' (to do) have to be urobit' (to do), can it be say zarobit'? or porobit', etc.?
urobiť is the most appropriate perfective form of robiť ("finish doing" vs. "be doing"). porobiť is OK, too, although I would use it under slightly different circumstances - to indicate there was more than one thing that was done. HOWEVER, there are other perfectly meaningful combinations: zarobiť means "to earn money" (its own imperfective form being zarábať); nadrobiť* means "to do a part of the task in advance, so you have less to do later" (sorry, I don't know the English equivalent); odrobiť is to "work off"; prirobiť means to attach something to something else; and so on...
While I can't provide you with rules for the possible prefix-verb combinations, I can claim that the prefixes tend to add a similar meaning (based on which you may try to choose the one you want to use in a particular situation). For example, pri- may mean a movement towards, as in prirobiť (=to attach; robiť = to do), pridať (=to add; dať = to give), priniesť (=to bring; niesť = to carry), pribehnúť (=to come running; bežať = to run), etc. Or, vy- may imply producing something: vyrobiť (=to produce, to make), vydať (=to surrender, to give out), vybehnúť (=to run out of), vyniesť (=to take out), and so on. (Would you like me to try and compile a longer list of these "meanings suggestions for prefixes"?)

*nadrobiť it is also a perfective form of drobiť (=crumble)

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Re: Questions about Slovak

Postby MasterEnki » 2013-04-24, 5:42

Thanks

I would REALLY like a compiled / longer list... Thanks

I think that remembering Verbs will be easier. For example:

With Vyrobit' - I can picture a machine doing something (the robit' part), and a product coming out on a conveyor belt (that the machine produced), etc.

Thanks

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qwerty
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Re: Questions about Slovak

Postby qwerty » 2013-04-30, 14:11

(Just a quick note: I'm a bit busy right now, but I'm definitely getting back to this as soon as I can. Keep posting in the meantime ;))

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Re: Questions about Slovak

Postby MasterEnki » 2013-05-10, 9:16

I'm still interested in what the different 'prefixes' mean... vy, od, roz, etc.


Also, I am trying to express the following in Slovak, I have guessed what they might be:

1. I'm early for work, Lenka will be happy

Som včasný prácu, Lenka bude šťastna

Is there a preposition that I'm missing? If so which one?

2. It will be evening in 2 hours

Bude večer v dve hodinach

3. Add me to facebook

Pridaj ma do facebooka

How does one express these kinds of thoughts?


Another thing I was wondering...

... Are there any (major) regional differences to Slovak... How does the Slovak spoken / around Bratislava differ from Košice? (and other regions)?

Thanks

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qwerty
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Re: Questions about Slovak

Postby qwerty » 2013-06-27, 18:27

(OK, I'm here: thesis finished, finals passed, accepted for PhD... finally ready to visit Unilang more often.)

MasterEnki wrote:1. I'm early for work, Lenka will be happy
Som včasný prácu, Lenka bude šťastna
This might be just my misunderstanding of the English sentence, but I think the translation is "Som včas/skoro v práci, Lenka bude šťastná." Not sure about this one though.

MasterEnki wrote:2. It will be evening in 2 hours
Bude večer v dve hodinach
"O dve hodiny bude večer."

MasterEnki wrote:3. Add me to facebook
Pridaj ma do facebooka
I'd say "Pridaj ma na Facebook", but there may be more versions.

MasterEnki wrote:Are there any (major) regional differences to Slovak... How does the Slovak spoken / around Bratislava differ from Košice? (and other regions)?
Yes, there are regional differences all over the country. Not only the pronunciation varies, but also the vocabulary and common phrases. Generally, people from Bratislava and the most western part of Slovakia tend to pronounce the soft consonants hard, while the more to the north and to the centre of Slovakia, the purer the pronunciation gets. I am no expert as to the dialects and have no acquaintances in the eastern part, but people from eastern Slovakia are said to have a rather specific dialect (both vocabulary and accent) that at times can be difficult to understand even for natives from other parts of the country. Then there are us, at the south, who may have a Hungarian accent on top of the variant of Slovak we speak, and so on...

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qwerty
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Re: Questions about Slovak

Postby qwerty » 2013-06-27, 18:35

And now the prefixes, as I promised you half a lifetime ago. I tried to use more or less the same verbs with different prefixes to demonstrate the changes in meaning. There is always a basic form of the verb without the prefix in parentheses. Some of the translations are really horrible, but I hope they give you the idea.
Note that these are no definitive rules, it’s just what I think can be at least a bit generalized. It is perfectly possible that I’ve forgotten about something or took the meaning just from one point of view. And there are more prefixes than just these I mention here, but the others I have not been able to identify a reasonable meaning-pattern for.
Another note: the fact that a verb contains one of these prefixes as such does not guarantee that it is perfective. Consider for example: priniesť – prinášať (= bring, the first one is perfective, the second is imperfective), vyrobiť – vyrábať (= produce, again perfective+imperfective), etc.
In spite of all these problems, I still hope this helps.

VY-
emphasis on the result of a movement out of (as opposed to the movement itself), the product
vytiahnuť (ťahať), vytlačiť (tlačiť), vyrobiť (robiť), vymyslieť (myslieť), vyrozprávať (rozprávať), vyložiť (klásť), ...
vytlačiť – push something out, e.g. a toothpaste
vymyslieť – make something up ("myslieť" = emphasis on the process of thinking, "vymyslieť" = emphasis on the product, on what came up while thinking)
vyrobiť – produce; as opposed to robiť – do


DO-
emphasis on finishing something, reaching the destination/target
dokončiť (končiť), dotiahnuť (ťahať), dotlačiť (tlačiť), dorobiť (robiť), domyslieť (myslieť), doskočiť (skákať), doniesť (niesť), doložiť (klásť), ...
dokončiť – finish ("končiť" = the process of finishing, approaching the end; "dokončiť" = there is nothing left to do, it has been finished)
dotlačiť – push something/somebody to the final destination (there is no need to move forward any more)
dorobiť – finish making something


PRI-
emphasis on the movement towards, or addition to something
priniesť (niesť), pridať (dať), pritlačiť (tlačiť), prilepiť (lepiť), priložiť (klásť), ...
pridať – add ("dať" – give, put)
prilepiť – glue, emphasis on the final state when it sticks together ("lepiť" = the process of making it stick)
priniesť – bring ("niesť" – carry)


OD-
indicates removing something; emphasis on the result, while the process is not important
odniesť (niesť), odtiahnuť (ťahať), odskočiť (skákať), odlepiť (lepiť), odlomiť (lámať), odložiť (klásť), ...
odniesť – carry away
odlepiť – "unglue" (if such a word exists :) )
odskočiť – jump away from


ROZ-
indicates division or sharing
rozdeliť (deliť), rozdať (dať), rozmiešať (miešať), rozložiť (klásť), ...
rozdeliť – divide/give out everything ("deliť" = be in the process of dividing)
rozmiešať – stir in order for something to be distributed evenly ("miešať" = stir)
rozložiť – spread ("klásť" = put, lay)


O/OB-
emphasis on including several/all of the targets, or moving around them in a way (a VERY weird explanation, I admit, but I hope the examples make it a bit better)
obmotať (motať), obvolať (volať), obletieť (letieť), obložiť (klásť), ...
obvolať – call several/all of members of a particular group ("volať" = call), e.g. obvolať kamarátov – call all your friends, obvolať rodinu – call everyone in your family
obletieť – fly around ("letieť" = fly), e.g. obletieť celý svet – fly around the world
obložiť – cover the circumference/surface of something ("klásť" = put, lay), e.g. obložiť miestnosť drevom – cover the walls of a room with wood


NA-
emphasis on the result of a movement towards/at/onto something; emphasis on the result, while the process is not important (can be considered the opposite of the OD- prefix)
namotať (motať), namazať (mazať), nafarbiť (farbiť), naskočiť (skákať), nalepiť (lepiť), natlačiť (tlačiť), narásť (rásť), naložiť (klásť), ...

PRE-
do again, differently; over-
prepísať (písať), preskočiť (skákať), prelepiť (lepiť), prerobiť (robiť), premyslieť (myslieť), preniesť (niesť), prerozprávať (rozprávať), prestavať (stavať), preložiť (klásť), ...
prepísať – rewrite, overwrite ("písať" = write)
preskočiť – jump over
prerobiť – do again, redo, repair
preložiť – put someplace else
prerozprávať – say something again in your own words


V-
indicates a movement into
vniesť (niesť), vpísať (písať), vstavať (stavať), vpadnúť (padať), vlepiť (lepiť), vbehnúť (bežať), vložiť (klásť), ...
vniesť – carry something into/inside
vpísať – write into (a text field etc.)
vložiť – put in

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Re: Questions about Slovak

Postby MasterEnki » 2013-07-10, 4:29

Thanks

Can you invent your own Verbs in Slovak, using the prefixes, etc.?

I don't think 'unglue' is a word, but I'm sure most people would guess the meaning...

Kind of similar to words like unfriend, etc.

What are some Slovak slang words?

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qwerty
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Re: Questions about Slovak

Postby qwerty » 2013-07-16, 13:47

MasterEnki wrote:Can you invent your own Verbs in Slovak, using the prefixes, etc.?
I think it might be possible, though I can't think of any example right now. But I am almost sure the "invented words" would be perceived similarly to the examples you gave - unglue, unfriend etc. are not really valid words, but you can guess the meaning.

MasterEnki wrote:What are some Slovak slang words?
Hmm, this is a tricky one, because as everywhere else in the world, the slang depends on age, region, on what is "in" at the time, ... I'm sure there are better examples (and others are welcome to add some as well!), but here:
telka (short for televízor) - TV
gate (standard form: nohavice) - trousers
matika (short for matematika) - Maths
kosa (standard form: zima, chladno) - cold (noun)
A while ago it was also very "in" to exclaim "to je ale haluz!" when something fun/cool/weird happened. Literally it means "what a branch!", so I have no idea how or by whom it might have been invented :D
Also, many slang words come from Czech (or English, nowadays). As for the English ones, we tend to spell them (and not only slang, standard words as well) "the Slovak way", for example we spell jazz as džez, software as softvér, etc.

marique
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Re: Questions about Slovak

Postby marique » 2013-08-16, 8:53

I admire you for learning Slovak. I am slovakian and after 12 years of learning it at school I still couldn't make sense of it. I am not trying to discourage you. Good luck :)

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Naihonn
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Re: Questions about Slovak

Postby Naihonn » 2014-08-12, 19:21

qwerty wrote:A while ago it was also very "in" to exclaim "to je ale haluz!" when something fun/cool/weird happened. Literally it means "what a branch!", so I have no idea how or by whom it might have been invented :D
Also, many slang words come from Czech (or English, nowadays). As for the English ones, we tend to spell them (and not only slang, standard words as well) "the Slovak way", for example we spell jazz as džez, software as softvér, etc.


:D Well, this haluz in Slovak and Czech is not about tree parts but it's an expressive word for hallucination.

And yes, I know this is quite an old thread but I've just had to share this knowledge with everyone. :whistle:

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qwerty
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Re: Questions about Slovak

Postby qwerty » 2014-08-13, 17:22

Thanks! I haven't thought of that :oops:


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