Pronunciation of <Q> in conlangs

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Re: Pronunciation of <Q> in conlangs

Postby Dormouse559 » 2013-12-04, 8:21

Koko wrote:<f> for all, none for Greek. Guess that wasn't a very good example without IPA stuff.
Now, I don't understand this. None of what for Greek? Where did <ph> go?

On Kōnen and Phe'il, so you're saying Kōnen uses an alphabet with elements of an alphasyllabary, and Phe'il has a full alphasyllabary. Is that correct? In any case, you haven't yet explained how this fits into the discussion so far.
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Re: Pronunciation of <Q> in conlangs

Postby Fox Saint-Just » 2013-12-04, 14:43

Ardlang: /tʃ/
Xetlaq: /x/
Native:  (it)  (egl) B2:  (en) Intermediate:  (de)  (fr) Curious about:  (ru)  (hy)  (eu)  (nah)  (ga)  (sr)
 (art) Currently developing Ardlang: http://www.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=40076.

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Re: Pronunciation of <Q> in conlangs

Postby Koko » 2013-12-04, 15:48

The systems would be their native writing system. If I understood correctly, you said that could be justification for an odd spelling(as native scripts are historical). As for <f/ph>, I mistook them for /f/ and [pʰ]. Both <f> and <ph> are still there and both are used for two words alike and/or sometimes an aspirated /f/([fʰ], right?). Wow, am I the only one thinks a lot of that could've ended if said something about their native writing systems?

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Re: Pronunciation of <Q> in conlangs

Postby aappaatsoq » 2013-12-08, 0:15

I only have 1 Conlang, named Dilaxca and the letter q often appears. It represents the same sound as J in European Spanish or CH in Scottish English "Loch" or German "Bach", therefore /x/.
I don't speak English natively, so feel free to correct me if necessary.
I'm also a conlanger, my language is Dilaxca.
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Re: Pronunciation of <Q> in conlangs

Postby Ahzoh » 2013-12-11, 15:06

my language is very pragmatic, so it uses any letters it can, so <q> represents a palatalized /k/ in my language, as opposed to <k> representing a norml, unpalatalized /k/, haven't decided for <w>
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Re: Pronunciation of <Q> in conlangs

Postby ~jakip » 2013-12-27, 21:19

In §itind the pronunciation of Q is like the q in italian, so /kw/, if it's followed by -ua, -uã, -uâ, -uå, -ä, -uī or -uō, /k/ if it's followed by -ue, -ui, -uo, -uu, -uā, -uę, -uĕ, -uį, -uø, -uü or -uŭ. My lenguage has a lot influecence from italian and spanish so many letters have the same sounds. It can be follow only by an "u" or by an "ä" ( /ua/ ).
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Re: Pronunciation of <Q> in conlangs

Postby puoteen_uusinesta » 2014-07-18, 19:18

in ugarian q is pronounced like [q] (voiceless uvular stop).
 (sv) -> know very well.
 (en) -> native
 (de) -> sort of...good enough
 (fi) -> Beginner
 (nl) -> Good enough

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Re: Pronunciation of <Q> in conlangs

Postby Levike » 2014-07-18, 20:16

Mine does not use any Q.

It doesn't have that much sounds so I couldn't give any role to it.
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Re: Pronunciation of <Q> in conlangs

Postby xroox » 2014-07-23, 18:51

Tynaap uses <q> for /kʷ/ when it is in onset, and <p> when /kʷ/ is in coda.
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Re: Pronunciation of <Q> in conlangs

Postby mōdgethanc » 2014-07-23, 19:12

I would like to suggest that no conlang should use <q> unless it's for a uvular stop or something similar (ejective /k/, maybe). Using it for a labialized /k/ is just mindlessly aping Latin; why not use <kw>?

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Re: Pronunciation of <Q> in conlangs

Postby Koko » 2014-07-23, 19:38

What about uvular fricative? If there's contrast between velar and uvular voiceless fricatives, don't <x> and <q>(respectively) seem like suitable representations? (one could use <r> for a voiced uvular fric. and if there's a trill, just use <rr>. One could also explore the diacritics and have one on the <r> to denote a uvular variant…)

I'm just making sure, 'cause "something similar" is too broad once you allow a velar ejective.


Would you allow etymological reasons for <q> not to indicate /q/ or something, mōdgethanc? In Isyan, they had /q/ in the proto-language which was often assimilated to /k/ before /w/. The /q/ was lost, but they kept <qu> for /ku, kw-/ in the modern language.

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Re: Pronunciation of <Q> in conlangs

Postby Ahzoh » 2014-07-23, 19:59

Koko wrote:What about uvular fricative? If there's contrast between velar and uvular voiceless fricatives, don't <x> and <q>(respectively) seem like suitable representations? (one could use <r> for a voiced uvular fric. and if there's a trill, just use <rr>. One could also explore the diacritics and have one on the <r> to denote a uvular variant…)

I'm just making sure, 'cause "something similar" is too broad once you allow a velar ejective.


Would you allow etymological reasons for <q> not to indicate /q/ or something, mōdgethanc? In Isyan, they had /q/ in the proto-language which was often assimilated to /k/ before /w/. The /q/ was lost, but they kept <qu> for /ku, kw-/ in the modern language.

No I don't think he would, because as he said, that's a lot too much like Latin, which I agree. But velar ejectives? I don't think <q> is fitting.

If you can use <kh> for a velar fricative, why no-one <qh> for an uvular fricative?
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Re: Pronunciation of <Q> in conlangs

Postby mōdgethanc » 2014-07-23, 20:05

Semitologists would disagree with you. Aside from that, I suggest you let me tell others what my opinions are and aren't.
Koko wrote:What about uvular fricative? If there's contrast between velar and uvular voiceless fricatives, don't <x> and <q>(respectively) seem like suitable representations? (one could use <r> for a voiced uvular fric. and if there's a trill, just use <rr>. One could also explore the diacritics and have one on the <r> to denote a uvular variant…)
Yeah, in that case it would make sense. I think it's best to follow a precedent set by natural languages. What I don't like is conlangs using "exotic" letters or digraphs just to look cool and alien. Say, a word like "Q'weshktleth" which is pronounced [dzeːlɘn].
I'm just making sure, 'cause "something similar" is too broad once you allow a velar ejective.
Well, in Semitic languages at least, /q/ comes from an older */k'/.
Would you allow etymological reasons for <q> not to indicate /q/ or something, mōdgethanc? In Isyan, they had /q/ in the proto-language which was often assimilated to /k/ before /w/. The /q/ was lost, but they kept <qu> for /ku, kw-/ in the modern language.
Even though that just looks like a very forced way to get the result you want, yeah, it's better if there is a historical reason for orthographic quirks.

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Re: Pronunciation of <Q> in conlangs

Postby Koko » 2014-07-23, 20:11

It may look forced, but I actually had that idea for a protolang before I began Isyan. It works for the language, which I love :)

I absolutely hate that first bit (the action, I 100% agree with the statement). The orthography has to make sense. And then when someone tries to reason their choices by saying English does the same.I've never seen one do this, but I imagine people do.

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Re: Pronunciation of <Q> in conlangs

Postby xroox » 2014-07-25, 16:41

My conlang uses <q> for /kʷ/ because:
1: it avoids using digraphs
2: it is a mirror image of <p>, which is the allophone [p] for the phoneme /kʷ/ in coda. So /kʷɨkʷ/→[kup] <qup> sun.
3: As in the last example, most of the time labialization goes to the next vowel, so the consonant is pronounced as [k].
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Re: Pronunciation of <Q> in conlangs

Postby Koko » 2014-07-25, 18:26

But then, [p] isn't an allophone in this case because you have a distinct morpheme(I think I am using this correctly?). Aside from that, <q> is still /kw/, ignoring its allophones.

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Re: Pronunciation of <Q> in conlangs

Postby Ahzoh » 2014-07-25, 18:38

Koko wrote:But then, [p] isn't an allopne in this case because you have a distinct morpheme(I think I am using this correctly?). Aside from that, <q> is still /kw/, ignoring its allophones.

Wouldn't that be "phoneme"? Remember, morphemes are basic units of meaning, not sound.

I agree, I don't see a plausible way that /kw/ can become [p] word finally anyhow.
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Re: Pronunciation of <Q> in conlangs

Postby Dormouse559 » 2014-07-25, 18:43

kʷ > p (and gʷ > b) isn't unheard of. It happened in Romanian and certain Celtic languages if I remember correctly.

From what I can tell, Tynaap doesn't have a phonemic /p/, so indeed, it can be considered an allophone of /kʷ/.
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Re: Pronunciation of <Q> in conlangs

Postby Koko » 2014-07-25, 18:54

Why have a distinct letter for an allophone? I've never heard of a language to represent its allophonology. Hundred is cent in French and not sent. In Florentine, the intervocalic [h] allophones are still written as <c> and not <h>.

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Re: Pronunciation of <Q> in conlangs

Postby Levike » 2014-07-25, 18:58

Dormouse559 wrote:kʷ > p (and gʷ > b) isn't unheard of. It happened in Romanian.
Yep, quattuor -> patru and lingua -> limbă.
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