Celestial Laefêvëši

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Re: Celestial Laefêvëši

Postby Ashucky » 2015-09-08, 21:36

^^ Yeah, I need to get to a car first :D

Also, I've finally began to convert one of my vertical Laef scripts into a font, or trying to digitalise it, at least.

Here's an example of the blocky script (known as eamsién "stone writing"):
Image

Left: Laefêvëši, right: Laefêvitti
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Re: Celestial Laefêvëši

Postby Levike » 2015-09-08, 22:25

Do letters always have to be connected like that?
Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára.

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Re: Celestial Laefêvëši

Postby Ashucky » 2015-09-09, 0:25

Levike wrote:Do letters always have to be connected like that?

Yep, all the letters within a word are connected. It's a feature of the script.
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Re: Celestial Laefêvëši

Postby Ashucky » 2015-09-09, 15:49

And I finally, FINALLY, managed to get the cursive script digitalised as well.

Here's a Laefevian name in all three scripts (read LTR and TTB):

Aurôlind Êriasont Saltíndirsent Ráskirinirsent Laefêvittinli

Image
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Re: Celestial Laefêvëši

Postby Vlürch » 2015-09-09, 17:37

Ashucky wrote:the cursive script

It makes me think of a mix of Mongolian and Gujarati, and that's really cool.

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Re: Celestial Laefêvëši

Postby Levike » 2015-09-09, 18:03


The middle one looks oddly like my script. :shock:

Overall I would say the middle one definitely looks like Mongolian, the left one like Tibetan, although from another direction while the right one reminds me of Georgian.

I really like the middle one.

How did you come up with the letters? What are those little diacritic-like thingies?
PS: No need, now I see how you went from the right one to the middle one. :mrgreen:
Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára.

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Re: Celestial Laefêvëši

Postby Ashucky » 2015-09-09, 19:30

Levike wrote:

The middle one looks oddly like my script. :shock:

Nice :D Great minds think alike ;)

Levike wrote:Overall I would say the middle one definitely looks like Mongolian, the left one like Tibetan, although from another direction while the right one reminds me of Georgian.

Yeah, Mongolian was the inspiration for the cursive script, while Phags Pa for the blocky one (on the left). All three scripts are supposed to be related, and if you look closely enough you'll see similarities between the letters. Not all of them, but most of them, though.

I'm working on a seal style for the blocky script and a more serif kinda style for the cursive one (aka a much more Mongolian style). I already have a serif version of the horizontal script.

Levike wrote:What are those little diacritic-like thingies?

They mark stress and length of vowels and consonants. In one case the dot is just part of the letter (in the cursive one), and there are a few other uses, mostly just clarifying ambiguity in the script.
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Re: Celestial Laefêvëši

Postby Ashucky » 2016-01-17, 1:02

Some grammar stuff! :D Well, since I write this as somewhere else, I thought I might as well just post it here too.

Relative clauses
There are three types: substantival relative pronoun and substantival relative indefinite pronoun, and adjectival relative relational pronoun. The substantival pronouns are divided by animacy (what vs. who) and inflect for case only, and the adjectival pronoun inflects for case and number. I think it's best to demonstrate their use with examples.

The following two examples demonstrate the typical use of the substantival relative pronouns:
1) Sól néonnas, néonjás. "Someone who studies is a student."
2) Véttais vi šíjeneu, sós ve fêntiais. "He gave me a gift, which surprised me." (I was surprised by the fact that he gave me a gift, not by the gift).

The substantival relative indefinite pronouns are used similarly but they translate as whoever, whatever and whichever.

The adjectival relative relational pronoun is, on the other hand, used to directly modify a noun. The difference can be easily demonstrated by modifying the 2nd example from above:
3) Véttais vi šíjeneu, á ve fêntiais. "He gave me a gift which surprised me." (The gift surprised me now, not the fact that he gave me a gift.)

It should be noted that there are two variants of this pronoun: á and ráili. The former doesn't inflect while the latter does. Compare the following examples:
4) Véttais vi šíjeneu, á ve fêntiais. "He gave me a gift which surprised me."
5) Véttais vi šíjeneu, ráili ve fêntiais. "He gave me a gift which surprised me."
6) Véttais vi šíjenes, á ve fêntiois. "He gave me gifts which surprised me."
7) Véttais vi šíjenes, ráila ve fêntiois. "He gave me gifts which surprised me."

When a case different from nominative is required, ráili inflects regularly, while á requires resumptive pronouns. Compare the following:
8) Nár pólás, á-te sóraj nióunnai. "This is the book that I read yesterday." (lit. "This is the book that I read it yesterday.")
9) Nár pólás, ráeda sóraj nióunnai. "This is the book that I read yesterday."

Participles
Like in English, various participles can be used to replace relative clauses. Laefêvëši has six participles but only three are relevant here, and these are: adjectival participle, relative participle, and qualitative participle.

Their uses are best illustrated by the following examples:
10) adjectival participle:
Ƕáin, á láisáis, háisás. "The man who was seen is old."Láili ƕáin háisás. "The seen man is old."

11) relative participle:
Ƕáin, á lállas, háisás. "The man who sees is old."Láldi ƕáin háisás. "The seeing man is old."

12) qualitative participle:
Ƕáin, á lállais, háisás.Láldui ƕáin háisás. "The man who saw is old."

A better example might be this one:
13) Ƕáin, á ljêttais, háisás.Ljêttui ƕáin háisás. "The man who entered is old."
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Re: Celestial Laefêvëši

Postby Dormouse559 » 2016-01-17, 1:49

It's cool to see some more info on Laefêvëši. Those resumptive pronouns are yummy. :P

Ashucky wrote:It should be noted that there are two variants of this pronoun: á and ráili.
Are there situations where one is preferred over the other or are they about equivalent?

On a different topic, is there a way to distinguish restrictiveness?

Ashucky wrote:adjectival participle
relative participle
qualitative participle
Not that it matters a whole lot (They are just names after all), but why these names in particular? Based on your examples, the main differences are in tense/voice, so I would call them "past passive", "present active" and "past active", respectively.
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Re: Celestial Laefêvëši

Postby Koko » 2016-01-17, 3:24

Isyan's participles work much the same way! :mrgreen: (as in, they are used to replace relative clauses a lot more often than in other languages)

I wonder, is there a difference between examples [4 and 6] and [5 and 7]?

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Re: Celestial Laefêvëši

Postby Ashucky » 2016-01-17, 13:07

Dormouse559 wrote:Are there situations where one is preferred over the other or are they about equivalent?
The only difference is that á is the usual pronoun and ráili is sort of archaic and pretty much not used anymore in the modern language. That said, ráili can be used in very formal situations, or if you want to sound bookish and such, but its use is generally discouraged.

Dormouse559 wrote:On a different topic, is there a way to distinguish restrictiveness?
Nope, there is no difference between the two. Every clause with a finite verb form has to be limited by commas (or other punctuation), so there is no way to tell them apart, other than context.

Dormouse559 wrote:
Ashucky wrote:adjectival participle
relative participle
qualitative participle
Not that it matters a whole lot (They are just names after all), but why these names in particular? Based on your examples, the main differences are in tense/voice, so I would call them "past passive", "present active" and "past active", respectively.
I know they can be called that, and I used to call them that originally, but I find those names rather unimaginative now :P Plus there is another past active participle (which is called "descriptive participle"), so then I end up with "past active participle I" and "past active participle II", which is just terrible, imo. I also have a temporal participle and a locative participle, and I think those names just fit better with the rest of the system.

Koko wrote:I wonder, is there a difference between examples [4 and 6] and [5 and 7]?
4 and 6 are in singular while 5 and 7 are in plural (gift vs gifts). :)
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Re: Celestial Laefêvëši

Postby Koko » 2016-01-17, 18:50

:doh: The change in number totally went over my head. I thought there was some weird pragmatic difference that only a Laefevesi speaker could understand :lol:

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Re: Celestial Laefêvëši

Postby Ashucky » 2016-07-26, 16:45

Time to necropost again :D

Anyhow, with the help of a fellow conlanger, a proto-language is finally happening, and it's more or less realistic, even if everything is backformed. But once the proto-language is done, I can finally derive other languages from it.

Here's a few examples:
Proto-Enkean → Modern Laefêvëši
*pĭek'ag₁a [pʲe̞kʼɑgɑ]káx [kaːx] "bark"
*t'ōn₁ĭedŭ [tʼo̞ːnʲe̞dʷ]tám [taːm] "ash"
*sŭidḫu [sʷidʱu]sýd [syːt] "bone"
*fōld [fo̞ːld]álj [aːl] "wind"
*pehan₁ŭ [pe̞hɑnʷ]éam ['eːam] "stone"
*n₁ivŭotḫ [nivʷo̞tʰ] → mút [muːt] "hill"

And most importantly, numbers:
1: *hĭej₂ah [hʲe̞j̥ɑh] [saː]
2: *virŭūh [virʷuːh]vrâ [ʋɾau̯]
3: *dlēw₂ah [dle̞ːʍɑh]lía ['liːa]
4: *mŭūh [mʷuːh] [mau̯]
5: *lŭohĭaw₂ [lʷo̞hʲɑʍ]lúe ['luːe]
6: *dlahĭew₂ah [dlɑhʲe̞ʍɑh]lái [laːi̯]
7: *slīhĭih [sliːhʲih]léi [leːi̯]
8: *hĭelĭazah [hʲe̞lʲɑzɑh]lêja ['lɛːi̯a]
9: *w₂ōdrah [ʍo̞ːdrah]fará [fa'ɾaː]
10: *k₃ōhdlah [xo̞ːhdlɑh]šála ['ʃaːla]
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Re: Celestial Laefêvëši

Postby Ashucky » 2017-02-01, 14:50

It's been ages since my last post here but it doesn't matter. I've finally decided to convert one of my vertical scripts into an actual font. It's still not fully done and there are several characters missing (geminate consonants and long/stressed vowels, and possibly some ligatures, as well as punctuation) but most of it is done and it's more or less functional. Now I just have to wait for the technology to become more friendly for vertical scripts :P

Here's a preliminary test. The new vertical font is on the left, the top right script is the regular horizontal font/script, and below it Latin. The final version of the vertical font shouldn't be the same as it is below, only with a few more dots and rings. This was typed in OpenOffice.

Image
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